Biden pardons Hunter | Biden commutes sentences of nearly all federal death row inmates to life in prison

[lawtig02]

Yes. This destroys his legacy. It's almost like none of the laws he signed ever existed. I have zero patience for asshats that went from hero to zero on Biden because of the ignorance of American voters. Pretentious pious prattletraps.

Biden accomplished some great things. He also majorly screwed up the most important decision he made, which was whether he could keep Donald Trump out of the White House. I’ll give him credit forever for what he did, but I’ll also call a spade when it comes to his flaws and mistakes. He’s been a great dad to Hunter from what I can tell. But he can’t be a dad when he makes a decision about issuing a pardon. He has to be the president, and I don’t see any possible way this pardon is justified. The fact that Trump will be a million times worse is of no relevance to me on this issue.

 

[Batt Boy]

I understand his decision, and I agree largely that it was political. But this is a very bad look, and I was hoping he would not do it.

Absent a legacy media that will make the case and absent a comparable media ecosystem for liberals to that which exists for the right, it will look as nothing more than mere family favoritism and corruption. The Democratic Party will not sell it either, even if they try, as they can't message or sell anything like Republicans do. So what, for instance, that Trump appointed Charles Kushner to an ambassadorship? I get the difference, but the public will not. Granted, that wouldn't matter anyhow. But this doesn't help.

Further, the Trump Justice Dept. will find another way to get Hunter back in court somehow. So, this is a very bad move.

The Trump justice department, rank and file, will not work for Trump. He may put in acolytes in leadership position, but the man and woman doing the work in the field will not do his biding.

 

[superrific]

and I don’t see any possible way this pardon is justified. The fact that Trump will be a million times worse is of no relevance to me on this issue.

selective prosecution is one of the more well-recognized justifications for a pardon. That's what Biden cited. On that front, he's not wrong.

 

[p5mmr9]

People are going to jump up and down about this but it really doesn't matter. Trump nominated Kash Patel to run the FBI - Pete Hegseth to run the Department of Defense - RFK Jr and Dr Oz to run our healthcare. Biden pardoning his son is pretty low on the list of things to really worry about.

 

[lawtig02]

The Trump justice department, rank and file, will not work for Trump. He may put in acolytes in leadership position, but the man and woman doing the work in the field will not do his biding.

I think you’re extremely naive about that.

 

[lawtig02]

selective prosecution is one of the more well-recognized justifications for a pardon. That's what Biden cited. On that front, he's not wrong.

Yeah, we’ve had this discussion before and I’m not at all convinced. He was charged, tried and convicted. That happens to thousands of people every year. If I thought he didn’t commit the crime, that would be different. But I don’t think that’s the case.

 

[superrific]

It’s a gross abuse of presidential power, and I detest it.

I think you're looking at this from a skewed angle -- namely, that Biden should go out of his way NOT to pardon the man named Hunter Biden because of the family relationship. And sure, if that's your perspective, then I can see where you're coming from.

But if you're looking at this from an objective perspective, if Biden was considering a pardon for a person with a different name, it's not outrageous at all. It meets all the typical criteria for pardoning -- selective prosecution, harm rectified, perp has already suffered, suffer out of proportion with the crime, etc. I don't know if I would grant it, because I have never given thought to how I would pardon. But it's not crazy.

And of course there's a conflict of interest. That's unavoidable. But I would say that the whole reason there's a conviction was a process tainted by conflict of interest. Avoiding one while embracing another seems wrong.

 

[Geisterfahrer]

I think you’re extremely naive about that.

Yeah when they clear out a couple layers of management and put in all Trump loyalists we’ll see how that feels.

 

[CarlSpackler]

Serious question.

Do you feel the same about Trump's first administration?

Absolutely.

 

[superrific]

Yeah, we’ve had this discussion before and I’m not at all convinced. He was charged, tried and convicted. That happens to thousands of people every year. If I thought he didn’t commit the crime, that would be different. But I don’t think that’s the case.

The pardon power isn't only or even primarily for the wrongly convicted. If it was, it would be completely uncontroversial. The reason it's an issue is that it's usually used for people who did the deed.

I'm not sure what you mean by "that happens" to those thousands. Being convicted? Or being convicted for this crime? Or being convicted for a crime that is usually not prosecuted? In any event, what doesn't happen to thousands of people every year is that Congress starts pressuring the justice department and then the special counsel to prosecute this person. That's unique.

 

[CarlSpackler]

Who? Biden or Trump?

Yes.

 

[lawtig02]

The pardon power isn't only or even primarily for the wrongly convicted. If it was, it would be completely uncontroversial. The reason it's an issue is that it's usually used for people who did the deed.

I'm not sure what you mean by "that happens" to those thousands. Being convicted? Or being convicted for this crime? Or being convicted for a crime that is usually not prosecuted? In any event, what doesn't happen to thousands of people every year is that Congress starts pressuring the justice department and then the special counsel to prosecute this person. That's unique.

I won’t disagree that Biden’s DOJ caved to pressure from congressional Republicans when it didn’t need to. I haven’t seen any evidence the special counsel did anything he shouldn’t have done. I just don’t think any of that justifies a pardon. But as we discussed previously, I’d be fine if the pardon power was eliminated completely, and I certainly think it should be far narrower than it has typically been understood to be. I just can’t imagine why we give the president such broad power to override convictions. He’s not a fucking king.

 

[Mundial]

I won’t disagree that Biden’s DOJ caved to pressure from congressional Republicans when it didn’t need to. I haven’t seen any evidence the special counsel did anything he shouldn’t have done. I just don’t think any of that justifies a pardon. But as we discussed previously, I’d be fine if the pardon power was eliminated completely, and I certainly think it should be far narrower than it has typically been understood to be. I just can’t imagine why we give the president such broad power to override convictions. He’s not a fucking king.

Lawtig still thinking under the old rules, the rules of Queensberry no longer apply, the rule of law no longer applies, we are in social media influencer makes right world.

 

[lawtig02]

Lawtig still thinking under the old rules, the rules of Queensberry no longer apply, the rule of law no longer applies, we are in social media influencer makes right world.

Then what are we fighting for?

 

[nycfan]

 

[nycfan]

Why today?

 

[Calheel]

I'll lose my shit if he does

Did you in fact lose your shit?

 

[superrific]

The breadth of the pardon is to prevent further harassment, in the form of investigations, subpoenas, hearings etc.

 

[superrific]

I won’t disagree that Biden’s DOJ caved to pressure from congressional Republicans when it didn’t need to. I haven’t seen any evidence the special counsel did anything he shouldn’t have done. I just don’t think any of that justifies a pardon. But as we discussed previously, I’d be fine if the pardon power was eliminated completely, and I certainly think it should be far narrower than it has typically been understood to be. I just can’t imagine why we give the president such broad power to override convictions. He’s not a fucking king.

I tend to agree with you about the pardon power, but it should be remembered that governors have them too. Given that, we have to consider it a form of executive action, I think. Not monarchical. Just a power sometimes given to political executives (I believe the pardon power exists in other countries as well).

I do think the American understanding has a significant flaw, whether or not I agree with pardoning at all -- and that's the idea that pardoning is inherent in the notion of sovereignty. As I understand it, the drafters in Philly included a pardon power because they thought it was an inherent power of a state, whether monarchy, republic, democracy or whatever. And so that gives us this expansive notion of pardoning, and thus the idea that it is final, absolute, irrevocable, unlimitable, and per SCOTUS this summer, inviolable. That seems wrong.

 

[Mulberry Heel]

Literally could not care less about this. What father would throw his (now) only son to a pack to rabid wolves? Under the current circumstances, the gloves are off. Frankly, I’m surprised to see someone on the left go off book and tell the other side to eff themselves. Bout damn time.

Agreed. In earlier times I would have cared, and it probably is wrong, but given what's happened in the other party and what's coming next year I just can't summon any outrage or even anger at this. And it's probably not going to stop the Trump administration from going after Hunter anyway.