Biden pardons Hunter | Biden commutes sentences of nearly all federal death row inmates to life in prison

[wmheel1287]

Andrew Weissman: Biden is “a President who is living the rule of law…in the most personal ways!! He is not pardoning his son, which he could do…because he is living what it means to have a rule of law in this country!!…Allowing the norms that are required to live in a democracy to go forward!!”

I guess we no longer live in a democracy.

We don't. That has been clear for a while.

 

[nycfan]

I assumed this decision was made when Hunter reversed course and pleaded guilty in his tax case. And that still seems the simplest explanation but I guess Hunter may have chosen that path to pressure his dad to do what he knew his dad would do for him if the possible outcome was bad enough.

 

[wmheel1287]

“…
From the day I took office, I said I would not interfere with the Justice Department’s decision-making, and I kept my word even as I have watched my son being selectively, and unfairly, prosecuted. Without aggravating factors like use in a crime, multiple purchases, or buying a weapon as a straw purchaser, people are almost never brought to trial on felony charges solely for how they filled out a gun form. Those who were late paying their taxes because of serious addictions, but paid them back subsequently with interest and penalties, are typically given non-criminal resolutions. It is clear that Hunter was treated differently.

The charges in his cases came about only after several of my political opponents in Congress instigated them to attack me and oppose my election. Then, a carefully negotiated plea deal, agreed to by the Department of Justice, unraveled in the court room – with a number of my political opponents in Congress taking credit for bringing political pressure on the process. Had the plea deal held, it would have been a fair, reasonable resolution of Hunter’s cases.

… For my entire career I have followed a simple principle: just tell the American people the truth. They’ll be fair-minded. Here’s the truth: I believe in the justice system, but as I have wrestled with this, I also believe raw politics has infected this process and it led to a miscarriage of justice – and once I made this decision this weekend, there was no sense in delaying it further. I hope Americans will understand why a father and a President would come to this decision. …”

Understanding why a father would come to that conclusion doesn't excuse a President making that decision.

 

[nycfan]

Maybe this will lead to some pardon reform but probably not.

 

[lawtig02]

Why? I mean, who cares? Let me run a theory by you:

I've said that Trumpers went all-in on his idiocy in 2016, and when he turned out to be who we said he was, there was no going back. They were committed and thus did they elevate him to god-like status and we know the rest. To admit now that he's completely FOS would be an admission that everything they've done the past four years was BS.

So maybe liberals are like this in a different way? We went all-in on the rule of law stuff. We excoriated Trump for pardoning his peeps, and we made it a really important campaign issue. So if Joe were to commute Hunter (which, given that Hunter's crimes are almost never prosecuted in that way), it would be an admission that we hyped that shit too far?

Otherwise, I can't understand why anyone would be pissed. Hunter already suffered a lot, and he didn't really do anything particularly serious. Trump is going to pardon everyone associated with J6, which is much, much worse.

Super, I was just reading back through this thread and I'm not sure I adequately responded to this post. Just to be clear, I agree with pretty much everything you say. Hunter has already suffered a lot. What he did was not particularly serious. The involvement of congressional Republicans in his prosecution was disgusting, dangerous, and completely improper. And I CERTAINLY agree what Trump has already done with the pardon power, and what he's certain to do within the first day or two of taking office again, is immensely more egregious than this action by Biden.

All that said, your theory is exactly right, from my perspective anyway. There's literally nothing more important to me in electoral politics than respect for and maintenance of the rule of law. It's the foundation of everything we are as a nation, and in those moments in history where our commitment to it has wavered, the country itself has been in its most peril. The fact that Republicans, and MAGA in particular, have abandoned the rule of law makes it even more important to me that Democrats keep fighting for it. I think there are some areas where Dems can fight fire with fire. This is not one of them. If we don't stand for the rule of law, nobody will, and there will be nothing to fight for.

What really bothers me about Hunter's pardon is that it is an extremely high profile, high publicity statement by the man who is still (for better or worse) the leader of the Democratic Party that he does not believe the rule of law was followed under his own administration, and he's therefore willing to overturn the legal process to achieve what be believes to be a more just outcome. That goes way, way too far toward accepting MAGA's argument, in my view. It's even worse because the decision was so personal to Biden. While Hunter should not have been treated worse because of his relationship to Biden, it's also imperative that Biden does not give him special favors because of that same relationship. This is a classic example of two wrongs only making a bigger wrong.

So while this may be a little thing in the big scheme of things, it pisses me off because it speaks directly to THE BIGGEST thing, which is whether we're going to honor the rule of law or not. If we are, we need to fight for it, as the Pubs will be doing everything they can to take it away. If we're not, then we might as well just pack it in, because the war is already lost. I'm not even close to ready to concede that yet.

 

[nycfan]

Understanding why a father would come to that conclusion doesn't excuse a President making that decision.

I agree … throughout this saga, President Biden has put being a good dad above being a good President, IMO, and I had zero doubts he would do this if he/Kamala lost the election (and really zero doubts he would do it after he was pushed out as Dem nominee).

 

[lawtig02]

I agree … throughout this saga, President Biden has put being a good dad above being a good President, IMO, and I had zero doubts he would do this if he/Kamala lost the election (and really zero doubts he would do it after he was pushed out as Dem nominee).

nyc, any chance you could merge the other pardon thread into this one? I don't see any reason they need to be different. Thanks!

 

[nycfan]

Trump wanted Biden to kneel before Zod is all.

 

[Peppers49]

Hypocrite. BoSides

Go fucking cry about it you whiney little bitch.

 

[nycfan]

nyc, any chance you could merge the other pardon thread into this one? I don't see any reason they need to be different. Thanks!

Yeah, I was just trying to decide whether the prior thread is still in parallel or should be merged. Seems like the latter.

 

[lawtig02]

Yeah, I was just trying to decide whether the prior thread is still in parallel or should be merged. Seems like the latter.

No big deal either way but I think it would be easier to track the history of the discussion if they were merged. And I'm sure we'll have a lot more to say about pardons in about eight weeks. Thank you!

 

[lawtig02]

Understanding why a father would come to that conclusion doesn't excuse a President making that decision.

I was having this discussion with my wife last night with my son in the room. I looked him in the eye and told him that if I were ever in Biden's shoes (which I of course will never be), I would not be able to give him a pardon. He looked me back in the eye and said he would be disappointed if I did.

 

[aGDevil2k]

Well I definitely won't vote for Biden again

 

[TitanNC]

I am disappointed in the pardon but more than anything this is on Hunter. If he were half a man he would not have put his dad in this situation. He should have said that if he was granted a pardon he would not accept it, IMHO.

 

[ChileG]

I am disappointed in the pardon but more than anything this is on Hunter. If he were half a man he would not have put his dad in this situation. He should have said that if he was granted a pardon he would not accept it, IMHO.

It’s also on Joe. Obama warned Joe many years ago that Hinter’s appointment to the Burisma board would result in the GOP making political hay of it but Joe supported his son getting the cushy payday over everything that came after.

 

[CFordUNC]

I absolutely maintain that Joe pardoning Hunter is bad politics, bad policy, bad ethics, bad everything, but I also absolutely maintain that any Trump supporter pretending to fiend outrage about this can impolitely suck it. I’m disappointed in Joe for stooping to Trump and the Republicans’ level, but I’m not even going to remotely pretend like I give a shit considering that both the majority of the Republican Party and enough Americans on November 5 decided that we as a country don’t care about the rule of law anymore. If so many otherAmericans don’t care about rules, law and order, decorum, and decency, why should any of us- and especially why should Joe Biden on his way out? I have no idea why Republicans are so mad about this – this is exactly what they wanted! This is exactly what they voted for! “Rules for thee but not for me.”

Again, I completely disagree with this misuse of presidential power, but it is about damn time that more Democrats recognize that attempting to be the goody two shoes, above the fray bullshit over the last eight years has rendered the party completely impotent and completely incapable of stopping a total charlatan, con man, grifting g criminal from now controlling every single lever of power in the United States.

 

[lawtig02]

I absolutely maintain that Joe pardoning Hunter is bad politics, bad policy, bad ethics, bad everything, but I also absolutely maintain that any Trump supporter pretending to fiend outrage about this can impolitely suck it. I’m disappointed in Joe for stooping to Trump and the Republicans’ level, but I’m not even going to remotely pretend like I give a shit considering that both the majority of the Republican Party and enough Americans on November 5 decided that we as a country don’t care about the rule of law anymore. If so many otherAmericans don’t care about rules, law and order, decorum, and decency, why should any of us- and especially why should Joe Biden on his way out? I have no idea why Republicans are so mad about this – this is exactly what they wanted! This is exactly what they voted for! “Rules for thee but not for me.”

Again, I completely disagree with this misuse of presidential power, but it is about damn time that more Democrats recognize that attempting to be the goody two shoes, above the fray bullshit over the last eight years has rendered the party completely impotent and completely incapable of stopping a total charlatan, con man, grifting g criminal from now controlling every single lever of power in the United States.

 

[CFordUNC]

I totally agree, but way easier said than done considering that elections have such outsized consequences and considering that playing by the rules and norms has gotten the Democrats nowhere over the last 8 years. Dems are acting like it’s 1992 still and it’s just not. I’m not saying that I want for Democrats to go completely scorched earth, completely disregarding literally every rule and law on the books. I’m just saying that in this particular instance, I am not even remotely going to pretend like I care about Hunter Biden being pardoned.

 

[superrific]

I was having this discussion with my wife last night with my son in the room. I looked him in the eye and told him that if I were ever in Biden's shoes (which I of course will never be), I would not be able to give him a pardon. He looked me back in the eye and said he would be disappointed if I did.

OK, did you add the part where the incoming director of the FBI has vowed to use the full power of the agency to harass and oppress with constant bullshit investigations, phony charges and presumed guilt? That changes the calculus.

And that's ultimately what this pardon is about. It's why it was announced right after Kash Patel's nomination. And it's why it's a pardon and not a commutation.

 

[superrific]

I assumed this decision was made when Hunter reversed course and pleaded guilty in his tax case. And that still seems the simplest explanation but I guess Hunter may have chosen that path to pressure his dad to do what he knew his dad would do for him if the possible outcome was bad enough.

I assume it was made when Gaetz was announced as AG nominee.