Biden pardons Hunter | Biden commutes sentences of nearly all federal death row inmates to life in prison

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CFordUNC said:
I totally agree, but way easier said than done considering that elections have such outsized consequences and considering that playing by the rules and norms has gotten the Democrats nowhere over the last 8 years. Dems are acting like it’s 1992 still and it’s just not. I’m not saying that I want for Democrats to go completely scorched earth, completely disregarding literally every rule and law on the books. I’m just saying that in this particular instance, I am not even remotely going to pretend like I care about Hunter Biden being pardoned.
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I get it. I also think the Dems need to start playing a lot dirtier on some things. If we ever find ourselves in the reverse 2016 situation, no way in hell I think a Dem Senate should confirm a Pub SCOTUS nominee. In fact, I'm fine if the Dems in Congress do literally nothing for the next two years and just use their bully pulpit to point out all the stupid shit the Pubs will invariably be doing. Blame the Pubs for things that are not actually their fault. Put messaging in every red area that reminds people the Pubs are not delivering on the many things they promised.

But the rule of law is the brightest of all bright lines for me. When Dems start suggesting the legal process has been compromised -- and ESPECIALLY a legal process overseen by a Dem president's own justice department -- we've lost the battle. We don't have to maintain the high road on everything, but on this we do. And that applies to the little things (like Hunter's pardon) just as much as it applies to the big things.
 
superrific said:
OK, did you add the part where the incoming director of the FBI has vowed to use the full power of the agency to harass and oppress with constant bullshit investigations, phony charges and presumed guilt? That changes the calculus.

And that's ultimately what this pardon is about. It's why it was announced right after Kash Patel's nomination. And it's why it's a pardon and not a commutation.
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If Hunter served his time for the crimes for which he has been convicted, you really think they would continue to do anything about those? And if he committed other crimes that are not time-barred, he should be subject to investigation and prosecution for them just like every American. If the Pubs treat him differently, use that against them. But Hunter is not some snowflake that needs to be protected from the legal system.
 
First, Biden is not a "good dad." He enabled this POS his entire life allowing him to grift off his offices. He's a 55 year old man and he's still dependent upon Daddy.

Second, this is the most broad and expansive pardon given by a President since Ford pardoned Nixon. Why not just pardon him for the gun and tax charges?

Third, Biden confirmed that the DOJ is weaponized - he just believes it was weaponized against his own son - so he's conceded the larger point that the DOJ exists to serve the Elites and go after their enemies.
 
lawtig02 said:
I get it. I also think the Dems need to start playing a lot dirtier on some things. If we ever find ourselves in the reverse 2016 situation, no way in hell I think a Dem Senate should confirm a Pub SCOTUS nominee. In fact, I'm fine if the Dems in Congress do literally nothing for the next two years and just use their bully pulpit to point out all the stupid shit the Pubs will invariably be doing. Blame the Pubs for things that are not actually their fault. Put messaging in every red area that reminds people the Pubs are not delivering on the many things they promised.

But the rule of law is the brightest of all bright lines for me. When Dems start suggesting the legal process has been compromised -- and ESPECIALLY a legal process overseen by a Dem president's own justice department -- we've lost the battle. We don't have to maintain the high road on everything, but on this we do. And that applies to the little things (like Hunter's pardon) just as much as it applies to the big things.
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Totally fair and valid points, all. I completely agree with you. Like I said, I completely and wholeheartedly do disagree with Joe on this without reservation or hesitation. And your point is a great one about rule of law applying to the little things just as much as the big things. I'm just having a difficult time mustering the give-a-damn that I would ordinarily give because I know what torrent of grifting and corruption is coming down the pike beginning in about 6 weeks. If it were an incoming President Haley or President DeSantis- folks with whom I disagree staunchly on policy but not on commitment to rule of law- I'd be expressing a lot more outrage. As it stands, and perhaps this is a weakness of character on my part, but it's hard to summon the outrage knowing what is coming and knowing that 75 million people willingly voted for it and millions more stayed home because they didn't deem it problematic enough.
 
The rule of law is dead in America. With what you see from SCOTUS, the immunity ruling, the Justice Dept. refusing to prosecute Trump, the countless violations, is all just folly.

Democrats should've skipped the honorable line a long time ago. Now we get to endure 4 more years of depravity and illicit activity while the government becomes the personal playground for the plutocrats.

Screw the "rule of law".
 
lawtig02 said:
But the rule of law is the brightest of all bright lines for me. When Dems start suggesting the legal process has been compromised -- and ESPECIALLY a legal process overseen by a Dem president's own justice department -- we've lost the battle. We don't have to maintain the high road on everything, but on this we do. And that applies to the little things (like Hunter's pardon) just as much as it applies to the big things.
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This pardon really doesn't affect the rule of law.
 
lawtig02 said:
If Hunter served his time for the crimes for which he has been convicted, you really think they would continue to do anything about those? And if he committed other crimes that are not time-barred, he should be subject to investigation and prosecution for them just like every American. If the Pubs treat him differently, use that against them. But Hunter is not some snowflake that needs to be protected from the legal system.
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Tell me one single reason to think they won't continue to stomp on every vestige of tradition, custom and civilized behavior and bend every rule to punish their enemies. Nothing comes to mind in recent history.
 
lawtig02 said:
If Hunter served his time for the crimes for which he has been convicted, you really think they would continue to do anything about those? And if he committed other crimes that are not time-barred, he should be subject to investigation and prosecution for them just like every American. If the Pubs treat him differently, use that against them. But Hunter is not some snowflake that needs to be protected from the legal system.
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I find you to be uncharacteristically naive here. They are not planning to go after him "just like every American." What are the odds that they will abandon every requirement under the 4th Amendment when tearing his life apart. I'd say pretty high, because they don't actually care about whether he broke the law or, if he did, getting a conviction. They simply want to torture him.

I would imagine that there will be a lot more of these pardons coming out in the next weeks. One for Jack Smith for sure. Probably Mueller too. Definitely everyone who worked on their teams. Jay Bhatt, I would imagine. Fauci. Merchan. Merchan's daughter.
 
finesse said:
Tell me one single reason to think they won't continue to stomp on every vestige of tradition, custom and civilized behavior and bend every rule to punish their enemies. Nothing comes to mind in recent history.
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They might, but that doesn't answer my question. I have very little confidence in this SCOTUS, but upending fundamental constitutional concepts of double jeopardy strikes me as a bridge too far even for them.

Look, I get that my perspective on this is different than most here, and a lot of that is because I am highly dubious of the pardon power as a general concept, and I freaking HATE the broad way it has been interpreted and applied in the US. In my view, someone seriously suspected of having committed a crime should be subject to investigation, prosecution, conviction, and appropriate punishment, regardless of whether that person is a teenager in Compton, a tech billionaire in Palo Alto, Matt Gaetz, Elon Musk, or Hunter Biden.

Millions of Americans drive over the speed limit every day. Most of us get away with it. But if I'm pulled over for going 73 in a 65, the cop won't give a shit that everyone else on the highway is doing 75, nor should he. I broke the law. I got caught. I should face the consequences for that. So should any criminal. The January 6 defendants sure as hell should. Paul Manafort should have. Dinesh D'Souza should have. Charles Kushner should have. The American soldiers who massacred Iraqi civilians should have. And Hunter Biden should as well.
 
Ramrouser said:
First, Biden is not a "good dad." He enabled this POS his entire life allowing him to grift off his offices. He's a 55 year old man and he's still dependent upon Daddy.

Second, this is the most broad and expansive pardon given by a President since Ford pardoned Nixon. Why not just pardon him for the gun and tax charges?

Third, Biden confirmed that the DOJ is weaponized - he just believes it was weaponized against his own son - so he's conceded the larger point that the DOJ exists to serve the Elites and go after their enemies.
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Saying Biden isn't a good dad is going too far. You don't know. The man lost a child already and has another who is a fuckup. I'm sure he's an imperfect dad. Most are. I don't run around saying that people who dress kids up in MAGA outfits and have them saying "Let's Go Brandon" are bad parents because I don't know what else they do with them.
 
superrific said:
I find you to be uncharacteristically naive here. They are not planning to go after him "just like every American." What are the odds that they will abandon every requirement under the 4th Amendment when tearing his life apart. I'd say pretty high, because they don't actually care about whether he broke the law or, if he did, getting a conviction. They simply want to torture him.

I would imagine that there will be a lot more of these pardons coming out in the next weeks. One for Jack Smith for sure. Probably Mueller too. Definitely everyone who worked on their teams. Jay Bhatt, I would imagine. Fauci. Merchan. Merchan's daughter.
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While I'm not sure they're all necessary, and while I still deeply distrust the pardon power, I wouldn't be nearly as opposed to those as I am to Hunter's pardon, mainly because I don't think any of them have actually committed crimes. That's not the case for Hunter.
 
wmheel1287 said:
Saying Biden isn't a good dad is going too far. You don't know. The man lost a child already and has another who is a fuckup. I'm sure he's an imperfect dad. Most are. I don't run around saying that people who dress kids up in MAGA outfits and have them saying "Let's Go Brandon" are bad parents because I don't know what else they do with them.
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And his first wife (mother to both of his sons) and daughter were killed in a car crash.
 
lawtig02 said:
While I'm not sure they're all necessary, and while I still deeply distrust the pardon power, I wouldn't be nearly as opposed to those as I am to Hunter's pardon, mainly because I don't think any of them have actually committed crimes. That's not the case for Hunter.
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So the fact that Hunter committed a crime should open himself up for dozens more bullshit investigations.

He is, I suspect, the only person ever to have photos of his genitalia entered into the Congressional Record (or did that get stricken?). They will hound him eternally without this pardon.

Now, Biden could have pardoned all offenses *except* those to which Hunter pled guilty, and that would more narrowly address the concern. That's the sort of thing I would do. But I don't always think the same way as others. I imagine that most people would find that bafflingly weird.
 
Note to Joe - you pardon your friends/family going in to a long holiday weekend, not coming out of the long holiday weekend.
 
Ramrouser said:
First, Biden is not a "good dad." He enabled this POS his entire life allowing him to grift off his offices. He's a 55 year old man and he's still dependent upon Daddy.

Second, this is the most broad and expansive pardon given by a President since Ford pardoned Nixon. Why not just pardon him for the gun and tax charges?

Third, Biden confirmed that the DOJ is weaponized - he just believes it was weaponized against his own son - so he's conceded the larger point that the DOJ exists to serve the Elites and go after their enemies.
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Now do Trump's parenting. Go.
 
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