Congress Catch-All | House passes CR, no debt ceiling change

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nycfan said:
www.nytimes.com

Trump Tossed a Debt Limit Grenade Into Spending Talks. Here’s Why.

President-elect Donald J. Trump was forced to negotiate with Democrats over the borrowing cap during his first term.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Trump Tossed a Debt Limit Grenade Into Spending Talks. Here’s Why.​

President-elect Donald J. Trump was forced to negotiate with Democrats over the borrowing cap during his first term.

"... As he prepares to push an agenda of tax cuts and border security, Mr. Trump fears that a debt limit fight next year could interfere. His plans are expected to cost trillions of dollars, much of which will most likely need to come from borrowed funds. A drawn-out debt limit fight next year could force Mr. Trump and Republicans to bow to the demands of Democrats and could consume the congressional calendar.

“This is a nasty TRAP set in place by the Radical Left Democrats!” Mr. Trump wrote on social medial on Wednesday night.

Republicans are always reluctant to lift the debt limit, particularly when a Democrat is in the White House, saying it enables runaway spending. G.O.P. lawmakers regularly use it as a tool to extract concessions, such as spending cuts, from Democrats when they are in power.

But Republicans will soon control Congress, as well as the White House, putting the onus squarely on them to either deal with the debt limit or face the prospect of a default. The standoff over the debt limit last year roiled markets and led to a downgrade of the long-term credit rating of the United States. Mr. Trump would like to avoid a similar scenario on his watch.

By addressing the debt limit during the final weeks of the Biden administration, Republicans could prevent Democrats from weaponizing it against them once they are in power. And, as Mr. Trump has made clear, he could then blame Mr. Biden for increasing the borrowing cap.

“It’s clear Trump wants to clear the deck so he doesn’t have to have a budget/debt limit showdown on his watch to clean up the mess from the Biden spending sprees,” said Stephen Moore, a Heritage Foundation economist who has been an adviser to Mr. Trump.

But it is far from certain that Democrats would go along with the plan, given that they have already blasted Mr. Trump’s push to extend all of the 2017 tax cuts and enact new ones.

Democrats have long criticized Republicans for playing dangerous games with the debt limit, and called for it to be abolished. But it is not clear how willing they might be to let go of it as a potential source of leverage. And while Mr. Trump has indicated that he is willing to spearhead a move to eliminate the debt limit, many Republicans might fear that following his lead would be fiscally reckless. ..."
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Objectively speaking, I think the debt limit is dumb and should be eliminated. But I don't think Ds are going to be doing the coming unified R government any favors, especially with the Rs' history of using the debt limit as leverage against Ds. The narrow margins in the House will turn debt limit negotiations into an infighting mess for Rs. No reason to save them from themselves. And if enough Rs want to get rid of the debt ceiling, they'll be able to do so starting Jan. 20. I don't see the Ds doing it for them.
 
This whole episode is revealing how rotten the internal structure of the GOP is as well. I know sometimes it’s lost in my posts about the failures of the Democratic Party, but the GOP is just as listless if not more.

The competing factions in the party are more far apart than the ones in the Democratic Party, IMO. There is no consensus about anything. The incoming administration will be a circus of incompetence and competing power centers.

It will be ugly and will create misery for millions. But, it will leave an opportunity open for a left party to pop the bubble come 2028, possibly earlier.
 
altmin said:
Trump cult is more powerful I think.
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Certainly could be. However, I think the musk cult possesses the substantial intelligence advantage. That could make up for a lot of the numbers disadvantage. I suspect the Musk cult is also far more international, so their true headcount is more difficult to estimate.
 
TangledUpInBlue06 said:
Objectively speaking, I think the debt limit is dumb and should be eliminated. But I don't think Ds are going to be doing the coming unified R government any favors, especially with the Rs' history of using the debt limit as leverage against Ds. The narrow margins in the House will turn debt limit negotiations into an infighting mess for Rs. No reason to save them from themselves. And if enough Rs want to get rid of the debt ceiling, they'll be able to do so starting Jan. 20. I don't see the Ds doing it for them.
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Why not just vote to end the debt ceiling for good?
 
A couple weeks ago Rand Paul suggested that Elon Musk be voted in for Speaker of the House.

Since Musk is the de facto president, why would he want to be the Speaker ?
 

dcphx said:
Musk has effectively executed a hostile takeover of the United States. He will answer to no one and each time his will is challenged, he will threaten to spend millions on opposition to every Republican who does not fold to him. He doesn't have to go through with it because having to combat the endless coffers and social media influence of Musk is nightmare fuel to every House member. Further, with the House so close, most of the time he won't have to move very many members to make it completely untenable. Johnson won't even bring anything forward without Musk's approval.

Since Musk doesn't have to care about voters, he is going to touch every traditional political third rail and laugh about it. It is going to get bumpy quick.

The only real question is what Trump will do about it, if anything. Musk is far smarter than Trump and despite his awkwardness, he is far more charismatic than every other wannabe Trump/MAGA heir. Musk has an aura about him that people worship. When we were debating what smart politician would take over after Trump on the right and be able to pull the same shit...no one saw Musk coming. He's a fucking tool who will go to any length to get what he wants regardless of the consequences. If someone showed credible evidence that Musk messed with voting, I wouldn't even doubt it for a nanosecond.
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To me it is an easy solution. Have the press keep asking questions about and writing articles about Musk outsmarting him and being the true king until Trump’s ego can’t stand it any longer.
 
Trump and Musk can fight it out to see who is the real Tribal Chief in a no DQ match. Whoever wins gets to go to Congress, hold up the one finger and say, "Acknowledge me."
 
TangledUpInBlue06 said:
I'm not sure what you mean. A government shutdown would not prevent Congress from counting electoral votes. Also the VP as President of the Senate typically presides over a joint session of Congress.
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I don't think the VP can preside over a joint session unless there is a Speaker. Each new Congress (House) has to elect a Speaker. Can't function without one. Therefore this mess could affect electing a Speaker which would have a domino affect on the counting of electoral votes. Mind you I heard someone talk about this happening on TV and I'm trying to figure it out.

And by the time they get to January, the Republicans might barely have 218. Just the other day there was a Congresswoman who says she will no longer caucus with the GOP. May not affect her vote for speaker, but you can bet she and some other nuts are going to be hard to deal with when it comes time to electing a Speaker. Perhaps long enough to drag it out for several weeks. (yep I'm dreaming)
 
BlueSmoke said:
I don't think the VP can preside over a joint session unless there is a Speaker. Each new Congress (House) has to elect a Speaker. Can't function without one. Therefore this mess could affect electing a Speaker which would have a domino affect on the counting of electoral votes. Mind you I heard someone talk about this happening on TV and I'm trying to figure it out.

And by the time they get to January, the Republicans might barely have 218. Just the other day there was a Congresswoman who says she will no longer caucus with the GOP. May not affect her vote for speaker, but you can bet she and some other nuts are going to be hard to deal with when it comes time to electing a Speaker. Perhaps long enough to drag it out for several weeks. (yep I'm dreaming)
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I'm not steeped in legislative procedure and I don't have the time or energy to do any real research, but I can't imagine the absence of an elected Speaker could derail the electoral process. The 12th Amendment and 3 USC 15 are pretty clear about the procedure for counting electoral votes and neither requires any real role for the Speaker. Both do say, however, that the President of the Senate shall preside and open the votes.
 
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