Election legal battles & fraud claims

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies: 330
  • Views: 8K
  • Politics 
Very good idea. You know what’s coming if trump loses. He will try to use the courts to overturn the will of the people like he did in 2020. To use the Boy Scout motto “Be Prepared.”
 
This is proof that the Dems and Deep State are planning to steal the election once again.

Sorry, just getting everyone prepared for the marching orders that Trump and the Fox Entertainers will be pushing onto the MAGA cult.
 
I fear the battle in a close election will be local refusals to certify red county election results in an effort to derail certification of state election results if the state has gone to the other side.

The goal would be to kick the decision to the House, which votes one vote per state delegation, rather than one vote per member. The newly elected House would vote on it, but even if Dems re-take the majority in the House, It would take a blue tsunami that is virtually impossible for Democrats to take the majority of state delegations. If each state delegation votes according to party allegiance rather than by how the majority in their state voted, which I expect they would in more than one swing state, then Trump could become POTUS even if he appears to have lost the Electoral College but for failure of one or more states to certify the election results.

If the election is as close as it looks like it could be, it might only take one tiny county with more tumbleweeds than people in, say, Nevada, together with a forum-shopped MAGA judge, to cause chaos and send the decision to the House.

Georgia seems hell-bent on empowering local election boards to do just that, for instance.
 




Trump has called out the three MAGA loyalists on this board by name at his last Georgia rally to thank them for their loyalty to him.
 
nycfan said:
I fear the battle in a close election will be local refusals to certify red county election results in an effort to derail certification of state election results if the state has gone to the other side.

The goal would be to kick the decision to the House, which votes one vote per state delegation, rather than one vote per member. The newly elected House would vote on it, but even if Dems re-take the majority in the House, It would take a blue tsunami that is virtually impossible for Democrats to take the majority of state delegations. If each state delegation votes according to party allegiance rather than by how the majority in their state voted, which I expect they would in more than one swing state, then Trump could become POTUS even if he appears to have lost the Electoral College but for failure of one or more states to certify the election results.

If the election is as close as it looks like it could be, it might only take one tiny county with more tumbleweeds than people in, say, Nevada, together with a forum-shopped MAGA judge, to cause chaos and send the decision to the House.

Georgia seems hell-bent on empowering local election boards to do just that, for instance.
Click to expand...
I live in Ga and have watched this happen. It’s so blatant and it really upsets me. The only source of comfort I have is the Dems don’t need Ga to win. But the local MAGA are hell bent on making sure 2020 doesn’t happen again (Biden, Ossoff and Warnock)
 


MAGA conspiracy theories are being used to break election systems developed by dedicated experts and volunteers over decades …
 
The community may find this helpful. Ignore the somewhat inflammatory headline.

Why the 2024 elections won't be stolen, and why your posts about it don't help​



Things have certainly taken a turn for the positive lately in the political world. Democrats are casually raising nine figures of donations a week, over and over. Polls, for whatever they're worth, have gone from grim to great at the top of the ticket. Recent elections have shown Democratic priorities winning big in swing states, rejecting GOP-authored Constitutional amendments by 15 points in Wisconsin just last week. Everything is suddenly pointing to some major wins.

So, needless to say, we need a new reason to panic. And that's been "None of this matters, because Trump and his allies are going to just steal the election!"

Let's break this down, just as the title says:

Why the 2024 elections won't be stolen:​

The short answer is that every tactic being floated was already tried in 2020 - when Trump was in office, when Republicans had more control over election certification in swing states, when the same six conservative Supreme Court Justices were on the Court, and when Trump had his people in the Department of Justice. They all failed.

Let's take a closer look at some of the more panic-inducing theories:

  • "Republicans will refuse to certify the election results!" If that happens, states have ways of forcing them to certify. Rogue officials can be ordered to certify by the courts, face fines or prison time for refusing to certify, and even be removed from office. Notice how in these stories, election deniers talk a good game about overturning results until they're staring down potential prison time. See pg. 8-9 of this document for more examples - the whole document outlines effective legal remedies for refusals to certify quite well.
  • "Republicans will use the courts to overturn the election!" No, they won't. Republicans filed 62 lawsuits challenging the results of the 2020 elections, and lost every last one. They got one temporary victory in Pennsylvania that was ultimately overturned by the State Supreme Court (and, fun fact, that judge was defeated when she ran for PA Supreme Court in 2023. Voters don't like this stuff). What's more, since 2020, Democrats have gained control of the Wisconsin Supreme Court and Court of Appeals, the Michigan Supreme Court, the Pennsylvania Superior Court, the Arizona Secretary of State's and Attorney General's offices, and the Nevada Secretary of State's office. And that's before we get to the 205 (and counting!) federal judges appointed by Joe Biden. Trump's going to have to win these lawsuits with a much less friendly bunch of officials in charge.
  • "Trump's Supreme Court will just hand him the election!" See above. The same six conservative judges were on the Court in 2020, and they tossed every one of his lawsuits. Now Trump's not the incumbent and doesn't have the resources of the Department of Justice at his fingertips, either.
  • "Republicans will use Congress to overthrow the election results!" I'd like to introduce you to the Electoral Count Reform and Presidential Transition Improvement Act of 2022. This expedites any lawsuits around certifying the election in case local officials want to gum up the system, clarifies that courts have the power to overrule attempted steals by corrupt Governors, and limits the grounds that the House and Senate can use to throw out results. It's much harder than before - and if we can win the House and Senate, it'll be impossible.
  • "But I heard Georgia's elections board is going to ruin everything!" I'll leave aside the fact that Dems can win the House, Senate, and Presidency without Georgia for a moment, and point out that actually, they won't ruin everything. They might claim irregularities in the results and try to gum up the certification process - so we take them to court and make them certify. Using that expedited process in the Electoral Count Act of 2022, of course, and federal judges who are used to dealing with this nonsense from 2020. They might suppress the vote through closing polling places and purging voter registrations - well, they've done that for decades, and we still beat them in 2020 and 2022. The big theme of this is that when it comes to voter suppression, you can beat it by getting out the vote. We've got lawyers who are ready for nonsense.

Why your posts and comments about it are the real problem:​

  • If people think their vote isn't going to count, why would they bother voting? They certainly won't canvass or phonebank, things we need to do if we're going to win. People won't take part, or give it their all, if they think it's all for nothing. If enough of our voters get discouraged and don't vote, or don't encourage others, Trump won't have to steal anything - he'll just win. And that'll trickle down to other important races. I can already say I've had to talk people out of dropping phonebank shifts because of fears that races will just be stolen.
  • There's nothing average people can do. That doesn't mean there's no solution - Kamala Harris and the DNC have hired an enormous, seasoned legal team to fight attempts to steal the election. But if you're not one of those lawyers, you can't do much to help. And people know that. So it makes them feel hopeless and check out in general.
  • Dealing with misinformation takes time. I'll refrain from making cracks about the length of this post and simply say that I'd rather be sharing how to register to vote, or how to volunteer for candidates in swing districts. The only thing you can't get back in politics is time, and we'd all rather spend that time on making sure we win.
  • "Just sharing information" and "I feel anxious about this" aren't valid reasons to post this stuff. Period. Your 'information' does nothing except make people less likely to vote or volunteer, and you're not going to help your anxiety by posting - in fact, you're going to spin yourself up even more, and drag others down with you. The solution for political anxiety is a) talking to a mental health professional who's qualified to help you, and b) taking action. Political anxiety comes from a lack of agency over something important, like an election. But you do have agency and can help win. Not by posting, not by making snappy comments online, but by talking to voters and helping Democrats win. If you're worried that your vote will be stolen, read this post again. It won't. But if we lose, it won't matter.
Feel free to share this post anywhere, and to invite people over to this sub to get involved. We can win - not just for President, but also the Senate, the House, state government, local offices, and ballot measures. We can build a better America together, and the GOP can't steal it from us. It's our effort, our hope, and our strength that can win any election, and bring about the world we want to live in. Shake off the lies, and use the next eleven weeks to work for democracy, together.

Volunteer Opportunities, Events, and Petitions Near Me · Mobilize

 
Last edited:
CallMeTyler said:
The community may find this helpful. Ignore the somewhat inflammatory headline.

Why the 2024 elections won't be stolen, and why your posts about it don't help​



Things have certainly taken a turn for the positive lately in the political world. Democrats are casually raising nine figures of donations a week, over and over. Polls, for whatever they're worth, have gone from grim to great at the top of the ticket. Recent elections have shown Democratic priorities winning big in swing states, rejecting GOP-authored Constitutional amendments by 15 points in Wisconsin just last week. Everything is suddenly pointing to some major wins.

So, needless to say, we need a new reason to panic. And that's been "None of this matters, because Trump and his allies are going to just steal the election!"

Let's break this down, just as the title says:

Why the 2024 elections won't be stolen:​

The short answer is that every tactic being floated was already tried in 2020 - when Trump was in office, when Republicans had more control over election certification in swing states, when the same six conservative Supreme Court Justices were on the Court, and when Trump had his people in the Department of Justice. They all failed.

Let's take a closer look at some of the more panic-inducing theories:

  • "Republicans will refuse to certify the election results!" If that happens, states have ways of forcing them to certify. Rogue officials can be ordered to certify by the courts, face fines or prison time for refusing to certify, and even be removed from office. Notice how in these stories, election deniers talk a good game about overturning results until they're staring down potential prison time. See pg. 8-9 of this document for more examples - the whole document outlines effective legal remedies for refusals to certify quite well.
  • "Republicans will use the courts to overturn the election!" No, they won't. Republicans filed 62 lawsuits challenging the results of the 2020 elections, and lost every last one. They got one temporary victory in Pennsylvania that was ultimately overturned by the State Supreme Court (and, fun fact, that judge was defeated when she ran for PA Supreme Court in 2023. Voters don't like this stuff). What's more, since 2020, Democrats have gained control of the Wisconsin Supreme Court and Court of Appeals, the Michigan Supreme Court, the Pennsylvania Superior Court, the Arizona Secretary of State's and Attorney General's offices, and the Nevada Secretary of State's office. And that's before we get to the 205 (and counting!) federal judges appointed by Joe Biden. Trump's going to have to win these lawsuits with a much less friendly bunch of officials in charge.
  • "Trump's Supreme Court will just hand him the election!" See above. The same six conservative judges were on the Court in 2020, and they tossed every one of his lawsuits. Now Trump's not the incumbent and doesn't have the resources of the Department of Justice at his fingertips, either.
  • "Republicans will use Congress to overthrow the election results!" I'd like to introduce you to the Electoral Count Reform and Presidential Transition Improvement Act of 2022. This expedites any lawsuits around certifying the election in case local officials want to gum up the system, clarifies that courts have the power to overrule attempted steals by corrupt Governors, and limits the grounds that the House and Senate can use to throw out results. It's much harder than before - and if we can win the House and Senate, it'll be impossible.
  • "But I heard Georgia's elections board is going to ruin everything!" I'll leave aside the fact that Dems can win the House, Senate, and Presidency without Georgia for a moment, and point out that actually, they won't ruin everything. They might claim irregularities in the results and try to gum up the certification process - so we take them to court and make them certify. Using that expedited process in the Electoral Count Act of 2022, of course, and federal judges who are used to dealing with this nonsense from 2020. They might suppress the vote through closing polling places and purging voter registrations - well, they've done that for decades, and we still beat them in 2020 and 2022. The big theme of this is that when it comes to voter suppression, you can beat it by getting out the vote. We've got lawyers who are ready for nonsense.

Why your posts and comments about it are the real problem:​

  • If people think their vote isn't going to count, why would they bother voting? They certainly won't canvass or phonebank, things we need to do if we're going to win. People won't take part, or give it their all, if they think it's all for nothing. If enough of our voters get discouraged and don't vote, or don't encourage others, Trump won't have to steal anything - he'll just win. And that'll trickle down to other important races. I can already say I've had to talk people out of dropping phonebank shifts because of fears that races will just be stolen.
  • There's nothing average people can do. That doesn't mean there's no solution - Kamala Harris and the DNC have hired an enormous, seasoned legal team to fight attempts to steal the election. But if you're not one of those lawyers, you can't do much to help. And people know that. So it makes them feel hopeless and check out in general.
  • Dealing with misinformation takes time. I'll refrain from making cracks about the length of this post and simply say that I'd rather be sharing how to register to vote, or how to volunteer for candidates in swing districts. The only thing you can't get back in politics is time, and we'd all rather spend that time on making sure we win.
  • "Just sharing information" and "I feel anxious about this" aren't valid reasons to post this stuff. Period. Your 'information' does nothing except make people less likely to vote or volunteer, and you're not going to help your anxiety by posting - in fact, you're going to spin yourself up even more, and drag others down with you. The solution for political anxiety is a) talking to a mental health professional who's qualified to help you, and b) taking action. Political anxiety comes from a lack of agency over something important, like an election. But you do have agency and can help win. Not by posting, not by making snappy comments online, but by talking to voters and helping Democrats win. If you're worried that your vote will be stolen, read this post again. It won't. But if we lose, it won't matter.
Feel free to share this post anywhere, and to invite people over to this sub to get involved. We can win - not just for President, but also the Senate, the House, state government, local offices, and ballot measures. We can build a better America together, and the GOP can't steal it from us. It's our effort, our hope, and our strength that can win any election, and bring about the world we want to live in. Shake off the lies, and use the next eleven weeks to work for democracy, together.

Volunteer Opportunities, Events, and Petitions Near Me · Mobilize

Click to expand...

Big Brother Drew GIF by Big Brother Australia

Politicians have to take this VERY seriously and have a quality legal team prepared to fight it at local, state and national levels.

And I think it is well worth discussing on discussion forums and among politically interested folks because (fortunately) haphazard attempts of this sort were tried in 2020 and MAGA loyalists have been trying to refine their methods ever since.

I do think that political messaging needs to be careful in avoiding creating such a dark picture that low engagement voters decide it's not worth voting if your vote will be overturned anyway, but a message of we need everyone to turn-out to overwhelm this kind of chicanery can be an effective message because it's true.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top