Elon Musk / Tesla / SpaceX / Twitter / D.O.G.E. | Cybertruck explodes at Trump Tower in Vegas (Intentional? Fireworks?)

[nycfan]

“… Steven Kaplan, a professor of finance at the University of Chicago who has tracked such deals since the 1980s, said Twitter isn’t only the biggest hung deal by dollar amount since the 2008 financial crisis but one of the biggest of all time.

“The loans have weighed on the banks for much longer than other hung deals we’ve seen,” he said.

The banks that agreed to underwrite a deal that even Musk said was overvalued did so largely because the allure of banking the world’s richest person was too attractive to pass up, according to people involved in the deal. Musk and other investors ponied up around $30 billion to buy the company, giving the banks some cushion in case things were to go wrong.

The banks—which also include Barclays, Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group, BNP Paribas, Mizuho and Société Générale—have been able to collect hefty interest payments from the X loans. They are generally for seven to eight years and carry rates several percentage points above the benchmark for investment-grade companies. And the banks could still ultimately be made whole if X is able to cover its interest obligations and repay the principal when the loans mature.

“At some price, they could sell it at a loss, but with Musk they could end up receiving 100 cents on the dollar, if things pan out,” said Kaplan. …”

 

[nycfan]

 

[altmin]

From August but still relevant - Musk believed in his own brand of deficit spending when it came to acquiring Twitter:

Elon Musk’s Twitter Takeover Is Now the Worst Buyout for Banks Since the Financial Crisis​

Loans of around $13 billion have remained ‘hung’ for nearly two years, bringing in interest payments but weighing on banks’ balance sheets​

Gift link —> https://www.wsj.com/tech/elon-musks...cb?st=9nkmED&reflink=mobilewebshare_permalink

“… The seven banks involved in the deal, including Morgan Stanley and Bank of America, lent the money to the billionaire’s holding company to take the social-media platform, now named X, private in October 2022. Banks that provide loans for takeovers generally sell the debt quickly to other investors to get it off their balance sheets, making money on fees.

The banks haven’t been able to offload the debt without incurring major losses—largely because of X’s weak financial performance—leaving the loans stuck on their balance sheets, or “hung” in industry jargon. The resulting write-downs have hobbled the banks’ loan books and, in one case, was a factor that crimped compensation for a bank’s merger department, according to people involved with the deal.

The value of the loans to Musk quickly soured after the $44 billion acquisition was completed. But new analysis shows how their persistent underperformance has put the deal in historic territory. …”

So everyone and their mother on the planet knew Musk would lose money on this, except the supposed financial geniuses who run the banks. Brilliant.

 

[StrangePackage]

Guys, I'm starting to wonder if selling off critical aspects of our infrastructure, research, and national security apparati to multinational corporate interests was a wise decision.

 

[UNCatTech]

Elon must have an amazing crystal ball. He spent 200 million to help Trump win a race where Harris almost doubled Trump spend and he saw an unprecedented stock price jump making him still have more money than he's ever going to spend. Absolute no-brainer.

I can't think of any other explanations then Musk is a genius capitalist whose every action, including the head scratching moves he makes on a daily basis, is dedicated to increasing his wealth.

What does he do that would lead you to believe that he has any other ambition than to increase his wealth and therefore his influence?

Maybe I missed it, but I don't see him following Gates around the world trying to eradicate Polio or bring better sanitation to remote parts of the world.

I mean a quick search and this is the first thing returned:
Musk's Foundation Gave Away Less Money Than Required in 2023. Private foundations must donate 5 percent of their assets every year. Elon Musk's enormous charity missed that standard for three consecutive years. For the third year in a row, Elon Musk's charitable foundation did not give away enough of its money. Dec 12, 2024

Musk’s Foundation Gave Away Less Money Than Required in 2023

Private foundations must donate 5 percent of their assets every year. Elon Musk’s enormous charity missed that standard for three consecutive years.

www.nytimes.com

Seems like Musk is really into his philanthropy.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

What does he do that would lead you to believe that he has any other ambition than to increase his wealth and therefore his influence?

Maybe I missed it, but I don't see him following Gates around the world trying to eradicate Polio or bring better sanitation to remote parts of the world.

I mean a quick search and this is the first thing returned:
Musk's Foundation Gave Away Less Money Than Required in 2023. Private foundations must donate 5 percent of their assets every year. Elon Musk's enormous charity missed that standard for three consecutive years. For the third year in a row, Elon Musk's charitable foundation did not give away enough of its money. Dec 12, 2024

Musk’s Foundation Gave Away Less Money Than Required in 2023

Private foundations must donate 5 percent of their assets every year. Elon Musk’s enormous charity missed that standard for three consecutive years.

www.nytimes.com

Seems like Musk is really into his philanthropy.

The only thing I see that would lead me to believe he doesn't spend his every waking moment hoping to increase his wealth is acting like a complete idiot and hurting his businesses. It was probably only a few years ago where Tesla And SpaceX were absolute darlings of the left, and Musk was widely admired for his scientific and business accomplishments. And then he ruined all that by tweeting like a monkey. It's hurting his wealth and he just doesn't care.

If his one and only goal was to get richer and richer, he'd be Larry Ellison or Sergey Brin: basically invisible and enjoying their vast riches. Even Mark Zuckerberg seems well adjusted compared to Musk in the last few years.

That's why I think Musk doesn't spend his every waking moment hoping to get even richer. I mean he'll do it when he can but I don't think that's his overriding purpose. He's beaten the become the richest person in the world video game. He's moving on to something else which seems to be political power and influence.

 

[wmheel1287]

The only thing I see that would lead me to believe he doesn't spend his every waking moment hoping to increase his wealth is acting like a complete idiot and hurting his businesses. It was probably only a few years ago where Tesla And SpaceX were absolute darlings of the left, and Musk was widely admired for his scientific and business accomplishments. And then he ruined all that by tweeting like a monkey. It's hurting his wealth and he just doesn't care.

If his one and only goal was to get richer and richer, he'd be Larry Ellison or Sergey Brin: basically invisible and enjoying their vast riches. Even Mark Zuckerberg seems well adjusted compared to Musk in the last few years.

That's why I think Musk doesn't spend his every waking moment hoping to get even richer. I mean he'll do it when he can but I don't think that's his overriding purpose. He's beaten the become the richest person in the world video game. He's moving on to something else which seems to be political power and influence.

He realized that the path to greater richest was controlling politicians and that was much easier done by controlling the kind of folks who vote MAGA because they are so easily manipulated. The political power is just a path to further wealth.

He has already used it to block stiff EV competition by killing the CR.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

He realized that the path to greater richest was controlling politicians and that was much easier done by controlling the kind of folks who vote MAGA because they are so easily manipulated. The political power is just a path to further wealth.

He has already used it to block stiff EV competition by killing the CR.

Time will tell. At the end of the day it doesn't matter his motivation as He's using his money to inject himself into the political process and I don't agree with most of his policies.

 

[nycfan]

“… The debate broke out late last week on social media as Mr. Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy defended the legal, high-skill H-1B visa program from critics who want to sharply reduce even legal immigration. “I have many H-1B visas on my properties,” Mr. Trump told the New York Post. “I’ve been a believer in H-1B. I have used it many times. It’s a great program.”

Mr. Trump may be confusing the H-1B program with the H-2B visas he has used for workers at his hotel properties. But the point is that both are legal programs that help to fill labor needs in the U.S. economy. Unlike illegal migration, these programs don’t offend the rule of law or risk importing criminals.

… Some critics say H-1B visas let companies pay less than U.S. workers earn, but under the law employers must pay H-1B visa holders the higher of the prevailing wage or actual wage paid to comparable U.S. workers. Mr. Anderson says the average annual salary for an H-1B visa holder in 2023 for computer-related jobs was $132,000, according to U.S. immigration data. This isn’t exploitation of cheap labor. [MyNote — it is a bit more complicated when you factor in expected hours worked and inability to switch jobs]

… Some conservatives want to define nationalism solely by geography and ethnicity. But the U.S. has thrived because it has invited talented newcomers from many nations who add to U.S. strength and vitality. This is intelligent nationalism of the kind we assume Mr. Trump wants. …”

 

[Geisterfahrer]

“… The debate broke out late last week on social media as Mr. Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy defended the legal, high-skill H-1B visa program from critics who want to sharply reduce even legal immigration. “I have many H-1B visas on my properties,” Mr. Trump told the New York Post. “I’ve been a believer in H-1B. I have used it many times. It’s a great program.”

Mr. Trump may be confusing the H-1B program with the H-2B visas he has used for workers at his hotel properties. But the point is that both are legal programs that help to fill labor needs in the U.S. economy. Unlike illegal migration, these programs don’t offend the rule of law or risk importing criminals.

… Some critics say H-1B visas let companies pay less than U.S. workers earn, but under the law employers must pay H-1B visa holders the higher of the prevailing wage or actual wage paid to comparable U.S. workers. Mr. Anderson says the average annual salary for an H-1B visa holder in 2023 for computer-related jobs was $132,000, according to U.S. immigration data. This isn’t exploitation of cheap labor. [MyNote — it is a bit more complicated when you factor in expected hours worked and inability to switch jobs]

… Some conservatives want to define nationalism solely by geography and ethnicity. But the U.S. has thrived because it has invited talented newcomers from many nations who add to U.S. strength and vitality. This is intelligent nationalism of the kind we assume Mr. Trump wants. …”

Also worth noting that for things like data science, ML/AI engineering and senior software engineers, $132k is not very much.

 

[Calheel]

“… The debate broke out late last week on social media as Mr. Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy defended the legal, high-skill H-1B visa program from critics who want to sharply reduce even legal immigration. “I have many H-1B visas on my properties,” Mr. Trump told the New York Post. “I’ve been a believer in H-1B. I have used it many times. It’s a great program.”

Mr. Trump may be confusing the H-1B program with the H-2B visas he has used for workers at his hotel properties. But the point is that both are legal programs that help to fill labor needs in the U.S. economy. Unlike illegal migration, these programs don’t offend the rule of law or risk importing criminals.

… Some critics say H-1B visas let companies pay less than U.S. workers earn, but under the law employers must pay H-1B visa holders the higher of the prevailing wage or actual wage paid to comparable U.S. workers. Mr. Anderson says the average annual salary for an H-1B visa holder in 2023 for computer-related jobs was $132,000, according to U.S. immigration data. This isn’t exploitation of cheap labor. [MyNote — it is a bit more complicated when you factor in expected hours worked and inability to switch jobs]

… Some conservatives want to define nationalism solely by geography and ethnicity. But the U.S. has thrived because it has invited talented newcomers from many nations who add to U.S. strength and vitality. This is intelligent nationalism of the kind we assume Mr. Trump wants. …”

Shocking that WSJ would come down on the side of business in this dispute. Never saw that coming.

 

[UNCatTech]

Also worth noting that for things like data science, ML/AI engineering and senior software engineers, $132k is not very much.

True.

If I were only younger, I'd take a crash course in data science and find a new career.

I've got a good background for it with databases, programming languages, logic, etc.

 

[finesse]

I just ran across something in a book I was reading that made me look this up. Seemed like it belonged on a thread so much about information gathering and transfer. When the Library of Congress was established in 1800, it had 740 books and 3 maps. I get the feeling the Founding Fathers might be staggered by what's available today and maybe even confused.

 

[Geisterfahrer]

True.

If I were only younger, I'd take a crash course in data science and find a new career.

I've got a good background for it with databases, programming languages, logic, etc.

Do it now! you'd pick it up in no time.

 

[BlooVooDoo]

Also worth noting that for things like data science, ML/AI engineering and senior software engineers, $132k is not very much.

Especially in the northeast or west coast metro areas.

 

[superrific]

So everyone and their mother on the planet knew Musk would lose money on this, except the supposed financial geniuses who run the banks. Brilliant.

they knew. its just that i-bankers have a tendency to put their present income ahead of their firms' well-being. see, e.g., subprime mortgage debacle.

 

[sringwal]

Time will tell. At the end of the day it doesn't matter his motivation as He's using his money to inject himself into the political process and I don't agree with most of his policies.

You are both incorrect. He believes he is in a simulation and he is racking up points however he can get them.

 

[superrific]

True.

If I were only younger, I'd take a crash course in data science and find a new career.

I've got a good background for it with databases, programming languages, logic, etc.

i was studying data science for a while a few years ago. it is painful to do for long periods of time, from what i could tell. it's the sort of job you like in your sixth month but just cannot stand your third year. thats my impression and it's little more than that.

 

[wmheel1287]

You are both incorrect. He believes he is in a simulation and he is racking up points however he can get them.

Probably correct.

 

[Geisterfahrer]

i was studying data science for a while a few years ago. it is painful to do for long periods of time, from what i could tell. it's the sort of job you like in your sixth month but just cannot stand your third year. thats my impression and it's little more than that.

I’d say your impression is mighty faulty.