Genetic ghosts suggest Covid’s market origins

[evrheel]

Covid origins: Genetic ghosts suggest pandemic started in market

A team of scientists say it is "beyond reasonable doubt" the Covid pandemic started with infected animals.

www.bbc.com

The results identify a shortlist of animals – including racoon dogs, civets and bamboo rats – as potential sources of the pandemic.

Despite even highlighting one market stall as a hot spot of both animals and coronavirus, the study cannot provide definitive proof.

The samples were collected by Chinese officials in the early stages of Covid and are one of the most scientifically valuable sources of information on the origins of the pandemic.

An early link with the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market was established when patients appeared in hospitals in Wuhan with a mystery pneumonia.

The market was closed and teams swabbed locations including stalls, the inside of animal cages and equipment used to strip fur and feathers from slaughtered animals.

 

[superrific]

Of course this is the case. The lab leak theory never made any sense. It was based primarily on a geographic coincidence that wasn't actually very coincidental or geographically accurate. I guess people think Chinese cities are small?

The Wuhan lab is about a 40 minute drive from the market. Flushing is a neighborhood in northeast Queens that is about a 40 minute drive from Cornell Medical center in E Manhattan. If there was a pandemic outburst in Flushing, would anyone think, "oh maybe it came from Cornell"? Would anyone think that the virus would have somehow just skipped over Queens? I suppose it's possible for a person to get infected in the medical center, hop in their car without talking to anyone outside, drive directly to the market and walk right in. But that's the only scenario in which it's plausible for the virus to travel across the homes of a million people before taking up residence miles away. Oh, and then they have to not spread it to any co-workers or family members or anyone else they contact, other than market vendors.

So if you think it's a lab leak, that's the question you need to ask. Were there any lab employees who live alone, who left the building after being infected, drove straight to the market (do people even drive to work in Wuhan?) and then basically didn't interact with anyone for a couple of days? That's such an unlikely scenario that the burden would have to be on the lab leak folks to prove it. Of course, they don't see it that way. Conspiracy theorists always want to put the onus on the other side to disprove their bullshit.

 

[BubbaOtis]

The WUNC (horrible) music HD station was mostly replaced by a full time BBC feed who had a segment on this today. Their conclusions ranged from "most probable" to "beyond a reasonable doubt." They said this was obviously announced by the Chinese to put the discussion to bed once and for all with a bow on it. I'm sure the segment is available somewhere on the net.
They also said the conclusion could have been bolstered by going into the wild and locating some civets, etc. that had the virus but that wasn't done or efforts to do so disclosed. The scientist seemed to agree with the conclusion that pointed to the market but acknowledged it was far less than a certain conclusion.

Do I think the Chinese are ethically capable of dummying up whatever old samples are necessary to support a conclusion that was the best of the options available in terms of Chinese culpability? Hell, yes!

Now excuse me while I fetch my tinfoil hat...

 

[SmilingJack]

I think we almost always want it to be a conspiracy. Conspiracies make so much more sense than the fact that man's just screwing up the whole Earth. Mark Twain said that man was the only animal that blushed or needed to. This quick read kinda sums up my view of the pandemic. I'm pretty sure nature is trying to slow it's rapid demise caused by humans. As the Dalai Lama puts it better:

The Natural World | The 14th Dalai Lama

The Official Website of The Office of His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama

www.dalailama.com

 

[336Heel]

Pfft. Everyone knows Bill Gates started it. Bunch of sheep y'all are.

 

[superrific]

The WUNC (horrible) music HD station was mostly replaced by a full time BBC feed who had a segment on this today. Their conclusions ranged from "most probable" to "beyond a reasonable doubt." They said this was obviously announced by the Chinese to put the discussion to bed once and for all with a bow on it. I'm sure the segment is available somewhere on the net.
They also said the conclusion could have been bolstered by going into the wild and locating some civets, etc. that had the virus but that wasn't done or efforts to do so disclosed. The scientist seemed to agree with the conclusion that pointed to the market but acknowledged it was far less than a certain conclusion.

Do I think the Chinese are ethically capable of dummying up whatever old samples are necessary to support a conclusion that was the best of the options available in terms of Chinese culpability? Hell, yes!

Now excuse me while I fetch my tinfoil hat...

The problem with the lab leak theory is that there is absolutely no evidence to support it. It's basically an argument about coincidence, except that the coincidence isn't nearly what they think. I remember reporting that claimed the virology lab was a 1/4 mile from the market. If that were the case, I'd have more sympathy for the theory. That's still not evidence, but it at least more improbable and thus less likely to be coincidence alone.

But in reality, the market is far away from the lab. In terms of driving time, it's about the same as Raleigh to Chapel Hill. If there was a disease outbreak in Raleigh and a lab in Chapel Hill, would you be saying that, "duh, it must have come from a lab leak at UNC"? Of course not. Literally the only reason that this coincidence even exists is that Wuhan is a big city, and far bigger than Americans think it is. If Raleigh, Durham and Chapel Hill were to merge and form a city called "Triangle," it would be far smaller than Wuhan population wise.

So other than that geographic coincidence, there is nothing going for the lab leak theory. It's only what you said, the Chinese covered it up. Well, that's not a theory. And when weighed against the virology research providing strong evidence for animal origin, it's nothing more than bullshit.

 

[finesse]

The WUNC (horrible) music HD station was mostly replaced by a full time BBC feed who had a segment on this today. Their conclusions ranged from "most probable" to "beyond a reasonable doubt." They said this was obviously announced by the Chinese to put the discussion to bed once and for all with a bow on it. I'm sure the segment is available somewhere on the net.
They also said the conclusion could have been bolstered by going into the wild and locating some civets, etc. that had the virus but that wasn't done or efforts to do so disclosed. The scientist seemed to agree with the conclusion that pointed to the market but acknowledged it was far less than a certain conclusion.

Do I think the Chinese are ethically capable of dummying up whatever old samples are necessary to support a conclusion that was the best of the options available in terms of Chinese culpability? Hell, yes!

Now excuse me while I fetch my tinfoil hat...

While you're shining it, remember that the civet's source of infection could easily have been at that market and not something they would normally even been exposed to. David Guammen discusses just how tenuous the links to the origins of new zoonoses are in Spillover, an excellent book on the subject.

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www.amazon.com

Part of what he talks about are that abundant bats are at those wild animal markets. Bats carry more diseases than any other animal and readily spread them. It wouldn't be unbelievable for the civet to both be the primary cause and a random link.

 

[Ddseddse]

Wuhan is a big city, and far bigger than Americans think it is. If Raleigh, Durham and Chapel Hill were to merge and form a city called "Triangle," it would be far smaller than Wuhan population wise.

Wuhan is almost the precise size of Rio de Janeiro, and the 37th largest metro area on the planet by population.