So the “experts” told you that nobody besides Hezbollah uses pagers, AND, that others besides Hezbollah use pagers.
Sounds as if your bases are covered. Keep up the experting!
Israel assaults Iran, pounds Lebanon, Hezbollah
- Thread starter uncmba
- Start date
- Replies: 705
- Views: 13K
- Politics
Sounds as if your bases are covered. Keep up the experting!
- Messages
- 224
Isarael was funneling the pagers to Hezbollah buying agents over the course of a couple years. They had zero idea what happened to those pagers once they left their hands... and 2 years is a lot of time.
Sure the vast majority probably stayed in Hezbollah hands. But like with anything, they were probably passed on to friends, family, neighbors, etc. If they were convinced that having a cell phone could get you targeted by Israelis, then they probably shared them for "protection" with lots of people who had nothing to do with Hezbollah.
The idea that most Lebanese people would be happy to see Hezbollah members die is pretty... simplistic. As somebody who was in Lebanon when the 2006 war broke out, I can tell you that having no love for Hezbollah is not the same as wanting to see Israelis killing them in Lebanon. The Lebanese people at large would prefer that both sides stopped killing each other... and stopped using Lebanon as their proxy battleground. This act will only inspire retaliation... and the more killing between the two sides, the more Lebanon suffers.
Sure the vast majority probably stayed in Hezbollah hands. But like with anything, they were probably passed on to friends, family, neighbors, etc. If they were convinced that having a cell phone could get you targeted by Israelis, then they probably shared them for "protection" with lots of people who had nothing to do with Hezbollah.
The idea that most Lebanese people would be happy to see Hezbollah members die is pretty... simplistic. As somebody who was in Lebanon when the 2006 war broke out, I can tell you that having no love for Hezbollah is not the same as wanting to see Israelis killing them in Lebanon. The Lebanese people at large would prefer that both sides stopped killing each other... and stopped using Lebanon as their proxy battleground. This act will only inspire retaliation... and the more killing between the two sides, the more Lebanon suffers.
2ManyBlueCups
Esteemed Member
- Messages
- 625
No, the experts said that pagers are not in widespread use in Lebanon, which is exactly what I said. Keep moving those goalposts. 3,000 terrorists wounded and counting. Shalom!
Your words were:
“The general public in Lebanon has no use for pagers because they use cell phones like normal people.“
Well surprise surprise, NYT indicates that they are in use among the general public, and were sold separately by this shell company. Which anybody with average critical thinking could’ve guessed. But you did not.
And that general pager usage doesn’t even need to have been widespread to have potentially caused disconcerting collateral damage. With them potentially getting into the wrong hands over time, being passed along to non-combatants.
But on your “precision” march, you disallowed that possibility from the outset based on nothing, while few facts were known (and relatively few are still known). You’re rah-rah’ing a terrorist act by your “good guys terrorists” because your “bad guy terrorists” were the targets.
Batt Boy
Distinguished Member
- Messages
- 301
Last week I read Jack Carr's "Targeted Beirut". Highly recommended. I was at FLS Souda Bay when the barracks bombing went down. Took us a long time to get Imad Faye Mughniyeh, but thankfully he's no longer around. The internet will tell you it was Mossad or the Syrians, but it was Special Activities Division the whole show.
BubbaOtis
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 93
What's the estimated life of a pager? I'm guessing a couple of years. They may have decided to trigger them before they were replaced.
2ManyBlueCups
Esteemed Member
- Messages
- 625
You clearly don’t understand how this works. Hezbollah pagers don’t get passed to non-combatants. They are for Hezbollah members only, and that is why of the literal thousands of people injured in this event the handful of civilian casualties were kids who were holding their Hezbollah father’s pagers. These pagers weren’t sold or distributed to the general public.
The NYT article the day it happened stated that pagers were not in widespread use amongst the general public in Lebanon because cell phones are much more popular, just as they are in the United States. You and Rai are continuing to attempt to paint a false picture of random pagers being detonated when you have been shown over and over again that only Hezbollah’s pagers were destroyed. Your heads are willfully in the sand.
Try to keep up, dummy: the shell company sold pagers separately that were not loaded to detonate. That indicates wider pager usage for the general public, which you discounted without knowing anything.
Wider pager usage in general indicates a strong possibility that, over time, some number of these loaded pagers made their way to non combatants who use pagers. Not to mention bystanders and kids for which you have zero compunction with your rah-rah cheering on of terrorism.
But your certitude from the very beginning over the precision here is telling. Your mind was made up by the first headline.
Most meet their demise from being dropped or run through the wash. Would probably last 5+ years otherwise - esp if it uses AAA batteries (as they did back in the 90s) rather than a fixed rechargeable.
- Messages
- 8,577
Israel commences military strikes in Lebanon
- Messages
- 8,577
From CNN link above:
“…
The Israeli military said it struck dozens of Hezbollah targets in southern Lebanon on Thursday.
Israel’s Air Force hit 30 launchers and “terrorist infrastructure sites” containing more than 100 launcher barrels. The Israeli aerial attack also hit a weapons storage facility, it said.
The strikes follow Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant’s vow on Thursday that Israeli military action against Hezbollah in Lebanon will continue.
Hezbollah, meanwhile, said that it attacked several military sites in northern Israel with rockets and drones throughout the day on Thursday. The Iran-backed militant group described those attacks as being in support of Palestinians in Gaza. …”
“…
Israeli military says it hit Hezbollah launchers and weapons storage in Lebanon
From Lauren Izso and Mohammed TawfeeqThe Israeli military said it struck dozens of Hezbollah targets in southern Lebanon on Thursday.
Israel’s Air Force hit 30 launchers and “terrorist infrastructure sites” containing more than 100 launcher barrels. The Israeli aerial attack also hit a weapons storage facility, it said.
The strikes follow Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant’s vow on Thursday that Israeli military action against Hezbollah in Lebanon will continue.
Hezbollah, meanwhile, said that it attacked several military sites in northern Israel with rockets and drones throughout the day on Thursday. The Iran-backed militant group described those attacks as being in support of Palestinians in Gaza. …”
2ManyBlueCups
Esteemed Member
- Messages
- 625
You clearly don’t know what you are talking about. Hezbollah purchased the pagers. Hezbollah programmed those pagers to receive marching orders from Hezbollah leadership. Hezbollah then gave these pagers to key members and foot soldiers so they could receive messages from Hezbollah since they were instructed not to use their phones anymore. Hezbollah is not going to give pagers that it programmed to receive messages to the general public. You are clearly grasping at straws and ignoring what a massively successful operation this was.
superrific
Inconceivable Member
- Messages
- 3,020
OK, OK. Nobody knows what happened here. Nobody outside the IDF or Mossad, at least.
Surely we can all agree that if the options are 1) rigging pagers to blow up or 2) bombing the hell out of cities, option #1 is far preferable, right?
It seems to me that it is unlikely to be perfectly targeted, but that can't be the standard. To me, the ratio of harm to Hezbollah: harm to civilians appears to be pretty solid. If all military operations were like this, the world would be a better place.
Surely we can all agree that if the options are 1) rigging pagers to blow up or 2) bombing the hell out of cities, option #1 is far preferable, right?
It seems to me that it is unlikely to be perfectly targeted, but that can't be the standard. To me, the ratio of harm to Hezbollah: harm to civilians appears to be pretty solid. If all military operations were like this, the world would be a better place.
2ManyBlueCups
Esteemed Member
- Messages
- 625
Not sure what happened to my earlier post but once again you are wrong. These pagers were purchased by Hezbollah, programmed by Hezbollah and distributed by Hezbollah to Hezbollah members. Hezbollah isn’t going to buy and give pagers that receive terror instructions to the general public.
- Messages
- 1,017
"Well we have been bombing them and killing kids through an advanced scheme to hide explosives via the manufacturing process in ordinary seeming devices so that no one feels safe about any electronics in their house AND FOR SOME REASON they won't sit down and talk to us about resolving it, so we have concluded we need to bomb them more... "
SnoopRob
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,300
"We've tried nothing and so far there's no improvement!"