Israel assaults Iran, pounds Lebanon, Hezbollah

[ZZLPHeel]

I think finesse is saying that, at best, your history is beatnik poetry. It is a long way from rhyming.

Hopefully we’re both still alive in 30 years and I can say “I told you so” as we watch Palestine and Israel compete in the Olympics.

 

[superrific]

But I have to believe that after all of this, the average Palestinian would choose prosperity over vengeance.

Who is giving them prosperity? THAT'S THE PROBLEM. Israel turned Gaza into an open air slum for the past decade and a half. Terrorism is all they have. It's a shit option and never works, but what are their other options?

 

[superrific]

It seems as if you do care, since you couldn’t help yourself but to make that allegation. Doubling down rather than backtracking is also interesting. Projection, maybe? Perhaps @Rock , @nycfan , and @SnoopRob could help us figure out who is who. After all, you seem to be very curious and I don’t have anything to hide.

Where did I double down? You are a piece of work.

 

[ZZLPHeel]

Who is giving them prosperity? THAT'S THE PROBLEM. Israel turned Gaza into an open air slum for the past decade and a half. Terrorism is all they have. It's a shit option and never works, but what are their other options?

NYT posted an article last week about a comprehensive peace plan involving the Saudis recognizing Israel, an Arab peacekeeping force in Gaza and western nations funding the restoration and improvement of Gaza. If that happens it would give the Palestinians a choice between vengeance and an actual future and my bet is that most would choose the latter.

 

[mpaer]

NYT posted an article last week about a comprehensive peace plan involving the Saudis recognizing Israel, an Arab peacekeeping force in Gaza and western nations funding the restoration and improvement of Gaza. If that happens it would give the Palestinians a choice between vengeance and an actual future and my bet is that most would choose the latter.

I hope this comes to be..Likely need a new PM of Israel to get it done..I assumme he wants a couple more years of vengance

 

[UNCatTech]

Why did Bo get a new username?

Does it happen to be ZZLPHeel?

 

[ZZLPHeel]

Does it happen to be ZZLPHeel?

Yes.

 

[ZenMode]

Past “disputes” don’t justify October 7th, but they explain it.

Ok. We can reasonably explain why Dahmer killed young men and had sex with their dead bodies. Actions have consequences.

Israel could stop bombing hospitals and children. They could work towards a two state solution or a one state solution.

Civilian deaths, including children are apart of war. Hamas uses hospital and civilians as a means to slow Israel because they know that Israel is concerned about civilian deaths

There would be two states if the Muslim extremists in Gaza weren't absolutely dedicated to wiping Israel off the map. There's no reason to believe that agreeing to a 2 state solution would do anything but empower Hamas in their goal of Israeli genocide.

They don’t want to. Netanyahu and Israel are the obstacle to peace in the region. Don’t listen to me, listen to the U.S. State Department officials who are quitting the agency over this.

Muslim extremism is the obstacle to peace in the region and several other countries around the world where various other groups are also dealing with Jihadist violence.

Israel’s conduct is not making Israel safer, and it’s not making the world safer. It’s certainly not helping U.S. foreign policy goals.

It's making Israel safer in the short term because it's decimating Hamas and, hopefully, Hezbollah. Long term, the goal of Jihadist is likely to remain unchanged - "From the river to the sea", the goal is to eradicate Israel.

 

[UNCatTech]

Ok. We can reasonably explain why Dahmer killed young men and had sex with their dead bodies. Actions have consequences.
Civilian deaths, including children are apart of war. Hamas uses hospital and civilians as a means to slow Israel because they know that Israel is concerned about civilian deaths

There would be two states if the Muslim extremists in Gaza weren't absolutely dedicated to wiping Israel off the map. There's no reason to believe that agreeing to a 2 state solution would do anything but empower Hamas in their goal of Israeli genocide.Muslim extremism is the obstacle to peace in the region and several other countries around the world where various other groups are also dealing with Jihadist violence. It's making Israel safer in the short term because it's decimating Hamas and, hopefully, Hezbollah. Long term, the goal of Jihadist is likely to remain unchanged - "From the river to the sea", the goal is to eradicate Israel.

There is no evidence that Israel is concerned about civilian deaths.

Israel has been expanding their claimed land in the area for 75 years, they were not concerned when they ran people out of the lands before...

And Israel's goal has always been to eradicate everyone in the area, so can you blame someone in the situation the Palestinians have been in for 75 years to not have negative opinions of their oppressors?

You write like Israel is this perfect little country whose government has never done anything wrong and was living peacefully when their neighbors, unprovoked, attacked them. That's far from true.

 

[ZenMode]

There is no evidence that Israel is concerned about civilian deaths.

Israel has been expanding their claimed land in the area for 75 years, they were not concerned when they ran people out of the lands before...

And Israel's goal has always been to eradicate everyone in the area, so can you blame someone in the situation the Palestinians have been in for 75 years to not have negative opinions of their oppressors?

You write like Israel is this perfect little country whose government has never done anything wrong and was living peacefully when their neighbors, unprovoked, attacked them. That's far from true.

There is no evidence that Israel is concerned about civilian deaths.

Israel has been expanding their claimed land in the area for 75 years, they were not concerned when they ran people out of the lands before...

And Israel's goal has always been to eradicate everyone in the area, so can you blame someone in the situation the Palestinians have been in for 75 years to not have negative opinions of their oppressors?

You write like Israel is this perfect little country whose government has never done anything wrong and was living peacefully when their neighbors, unprovoked, attacked them. That's far from true.

If Israel didn't care, the civilian death toll would be 10x what it is. Hamas killed 1,000 civilians in a matter of hours with only knives and hand-held guns. With Israel's weapons, they could easily top that every single day over the last year +. It's also known that they drop leaflets to warn people, send out mass texts, phone calls and, I've heard, broadcasts on radio.

 

[UNCatTech]

If Israel didn't care, the civilian death toll would be 10x what it is. Hamas killed 1,000 civilians in a matter of hours with only knives and hand-held guns. With Israel's weapons, they could easily top that every single day over the last year +. It's also known that they drop leaflets to warn people, send out mass texts, phone calls and, I've heard, broadcasts on radio.

Yea a leaflet, wow.

What does it read? That noise you hear is the bomb that is about to kill you, you have 5 seconds to seek cover.

Israel has killed 40 times as many as the lost on oct 7th. They don't give a fuck.

 

[ZenMode]

Yea a leaflet, wow.

What does it read? That noise you hear is the bomb that is about to kill you, you have 5 seconds to seek cover.

Israel has killed 40 times as many as the lost on oct 7th. They don't give a fuck.

They are putting significant effort into warn and not kill civilians. Gaza has 15,000 civilians per square mile. With the weapons Israel has, indiscriminate bombing would cause hundreds of thousands more deaths. Again, Hamas killed 1,000 civilians in a matter of 8 hours with knives and guns. If Israel even matched that, you're talking nearly 400k.

 

[SmilingJack]

They are putting significant effort into warn and not kill civilians. Gaza has 15,000 civilians per square mile. With the weapons Israel has, indiscriminate bombing would cause hundreds of thousands more deaths. Again, Hamas killed 1,000 civilians in a matter of 8 hours with knives and guns. If Israel even matched that, you're talking nearly 400k.

40,000+/1,000 = 40:1 just saying at some point you have to question retaliation vs vengeance.

 

[RaiGuy]

They are putting significant effort into warn and not kill civilians. Gaza has 15,000 civilians per square mile. With the weapons Israel has, indiscriminate bombing would cause hundreds of thousands more deaths. Again, Hamas killed 1,000 civilians in a matter of 8 hours with knives and guns. If Israel even matched that, you're talking nearly 400k.

So you’re saying it’s ok that they damage/destroy nearly every building in Gaza because they gave a warning? Also, what if you were living with your spouse and 4 young children and 2 elderly parents that need physical assistance…would you have time to pack up your belongings, get them out, and walk somewhere that is deemed safe? There are no hotels to go to. Where would you go? What would you take? Where would you go to after your whole neighborhood has been demolished? A tent city you say? Wait, they bomb those too. Where else can you go?
Do you see how your argument makes no sense? Also, the total death toll is much higher than the reported 40k. There are many still missing and many others dying from treatable diseases, starvation, dehydration, etc…. Also, remember, half the population is children. Nearly 20,000 children have been orphaned (not just parents, but many losing their whole extended family). There are thousands more children that have had body parts amputated. How are they supposed to evacuate?

It’s easy to say from the comfort of your couch that they should just evacuate if they get a warning, but it’s not that simple.

 

[UNCatTech]

They are putting significant effort into warn and not kill civilians. Gaza has 15,000 civilians per square mile. With the weapons Israel has, indiscriminate bombing would cause hundreds of thousands more deaths. Again, Hamas killed 1,000 civilians in a matter of 8 hours with knives and guns. If Israel even matched that, you're talking nearly 400k.

Keep telling yourself that.

They have killed far more civilians than combatants. They don't care. The leaflets are for show.

 

[Macksbrownies]

Israel has passed over the good guy/bad guy line for a while now. At this point they’re closer to acting like Russia than not.

 

[ZenMode]

So you’re saying it’s ok that they damage/destroy nearly every building in Gaza because they gave a warning? Also, what if you were living with your spouse and 4 young children and 2 elderly parents that need physical assistance…would you have time to pack up your belongings, get them out, and walk somewhere that is deemed safe? There are no hotels to go to. Where would you go? What would you take? Where would you go to after your whole neighborhood has been demolished? A tent city you say? Wait, they bomb those too. Where else can you go?
Do you see how your argument makes no sense? Also, the total death toll is much higher than the reported 40k. There are many still missing and many others dying from treatable diseases, starvation, dehydration, etc…. Also, remember, half the population is children. Nearly 20,000 children have been orphaned (not just parents, but many losing their whole extended family). There are thousands more children that have had body parts amputated. How are they supposed to evacuate?

It’s easy to say from the comfort of your couch that they should just evacuate if they get a warning, but it’s not that simple.

Like I said, war is ugly. Growing up, we (if you're older) didn't get to see the horrors of war. Did you see what Hamas did on October 7th? Did you see the dead babies? Did you hear the phone calls made by the Hamas militants who called their family, on a cell phone they took off a dead body, to brag to their parents about the fact that they'd killed 10 Jews on their own?

Do you know why Hamas uses civilians as human shields? Because they know Israel cares. Jihadists don't believe in war crimes. They'll strap a bomb to a 12 year old if they think it'll help them kill the infidels/apostates/Jews. Do you think IDF has an easy job when ANY person, young/old male/female, uniform/civilian can try to kill them? Literally any vehicle that approaches can be loaded with explosives.

If the roles were reversed, and Israel was using civilians, do you think it would slow the Jihadists one bit? No.

 

[RaiGuy]

Like I said, war is ugly. Growing up, we (if you're older) didn't get to see the horrors of war. Did you see what Hamas did on October 7th? Did you see the dead babies? Did you hear the phone calls made by the Hamas militants who called their family, on a cell phone they took off a dead body, to brag to their parents about the fact that they'd killed 10 Jews on their own?

Do you know why Hamas uses civilians as human shields? Because they know Israel cares. Jihadists don't believe in war crimes. They'll strap a bomb to a 12 year old if they think it'll help them kill the infidels/apostates/Jews. Do you think IDF has an easy job when ANY person, young/old male/female, uniform/civilian can try to kill them? Literally any vehicle that approaches can be loaded with explosives.

If the roles were reversed, and Israel was using civilians, do you think it would slow the Jihadists one bit? No.

Both my dad and my mom's families were forced out by gunpoint from their homes in 1948. They were given a few minutes to gather whatever belongings they had and then had to evacuate on foot. My grandparents had 9 children and my father at the time was 2. My aunt was lost for several days but luckily they were able to find her. Many others were not that lucky and many were massacred. This did not start for me on October 7th. You clearly have not seen or heard any of the 75 years leading up to Oct 7th. You must not have seen the over 200 Palestinians that were killed last year PRIOR to Oct 7th. You must not also see how Israel kidnaps Palestinians (including children) and they literally chain them on their military vehicles as human shields. You need to read up on some history before you try and tell me that war is ugly. This issue has been in my life since birth and you trying to come in and don't even mention one atrocity committed by Israel before Oct 7th is a joke.

A few years ago, my uncle, who now has a European passport, was able to go back to the area my family is from. Their house is still there and is occupied by Israelis. He attempted to take a picture of it, but then Israeli soldiers confiscated his camera and destroyed it. This is a house from 75 years. Today, Israel is still evicting Palestinians from their homes in the West Bank and placing illegal settlers in those homes. Again, all of this was happening before Oct 7th. For 75 years, Israel has been dehumanizing and humiliating Palestinians.

You seem to be under the belief that there was 2 sides living peacefully until on Oct 7th one side decided to attack another because they just don't like Jewish people. You can't ignore 75 years of injustices. I can list 100 more atrocities off the top of my head that Israel has committed to Palestinians, but your history starts Oct 7th (in which there were no dead babies that you keep bringing up...that was proven to be a fabricated lie by an Israeli journalist).

 

[UNCatTech]

Like I said, war is ugly. Growing up, we (if you're older) didn't get to see the horrors of war. Did you see what Hamas did on October 7th? Did you see the dead babies? Did you hear the phone calls made by the Hamas militants who called their family, on a cell phone they took off a dead body, to brag to their parents about the fact that they'd killed 10 Jews on their own?

Do you know why Hamas uses civilians as human shields? Because they know Israel cares. Jihadists don't believe in war crimes. They'll strap a bomb to a 12 year old if they think it'll help them kill the infidels/apostates/Jews. Do you think IDF has an easy job when ANY person, young/old male/female, uniform/civilian can try to kill them? Literally any vehicle that approaches can be loaded with explosives.

If the roles were reversed, and Israel was using civilians, do you think it would slow the Jihadists one bit? No.

You keep focusing one one day instead of the 75 year history.

No one is arguing that Oct 7th, 2023 was ok or acceptable. But it doesn't justify the level of response or the years of slowly expanding and refusing to recognize the Palestinians.

But keep focusing on the one thing you seem to believe justifies genocide.

 

[Paine]

They are putting significant effort into warn and not kill civilians. Gaza has 15,000 civilians per square mile. With the weapons Israel has, indiscriminate bombing would cause hundreds of thousands more deaths. Again, Hamas killed 1,000 civilians in a matter of 8 hours with knives and guns. If Israel even matched that, you're talking nearly 400k.

The Nazis put significant effort into not killing anyone but the Jews, gays, disabled, Romani, etc.

They shipped them all off to camps to kill them on an industrial level instead of just bombing the shit out of the cities they lived in.

Do you see how fucking absurd this sounds? Because you’re making the same argument about Israel.