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You believe Biden and his people get no credit for this?
Israel Hamas War | Ceasefire Deal between Israel & Hamas
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tarheelbillie
Exceptional Member
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Superrific, take Twains’ advice…don’t argue with stupid. "The truth has no defense against a fool determined to believe a lie"
ChileG
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I pray it holds.
ZenMode
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"Sadly you are pulling against our country to succeed."
Nobody wants our country to fail and you're right that we will easily survive the next four years. However, it's safe to say that a vote for Trump, at least for most voters, is a vote against Harris, the Democratic party and often a caricature of the Democratic party. Don't get me wrong, the Democratic party has issues. The fact that Kamala simply could not definitively disavow her past position of supporting sex change operations for incarcerated illegal immigrants is representative of the current issues in the party.
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I’ve been imploring folks to back off feeding the trolls, for months, too; however, everyone has their reasons and this site is many things to many people. I use this space primarily to collect news, updates, and scrutinize my perspective with respect to meaning, etiology/history, prognostications, and analysis of legal machinations and policy.
Feeding trolls mostly gets in the way of my purposes, by mucking up the board with vitriol, circular “logic”, and willful rejection of verifiable facts in the name of disingenuous “asking questions” or “whatabout” or “free thinking” or “different opinion”. It’s all bullshit, and it pisses me off from time to time (ie troll priority #1), so I ignore these folks. If you’ve crushingly lost argument after argument on the preponderance of evidence, yet continue the same manner of posting, you’re a troll, and not worthy of my, nor other posters’ attention, imo. That said, recreationally baiting and poking at trolls is a valid reason to engage here, too, ie a troller of trolls, which I think is self defeating. I don’t like it, but I can fuck off.
There’s also the super approach, which is often utilizing trolls, or suspected trolling, as a prompt to disseminate information super suspects may have a wider audience. I’d still prefer that bullshit gets ignored; however, eg super’s recent expositions of tariffs, in response to several well established contrarians, has taught me something and prompted my own exploration, even if the contrarians won’t. This information would’ve been discussed here with callayeah prompting, but their obstinance to data occasionally offers worthwhile opportunities to reiterate and further explain, for a wider audience.
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GIFT LINK —> The Sheikh, the Mogul and the Diplomat: The Trio Who Sealed the Gaza Truce
“… What pushed the deal over the line this past week was the unlikely partnership between the envoys of America’s current and future presidents, working in tandem with the Qatari prime minister in marathon late-night meetings.
While Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump have competed for credit, the reality is that their representatives were both crucial to the final push, each using different approaches to push the Israeli leadership toward a deal while Sheikh Mohammed focused on Hamas.
…
“They aren’t natural partners, but the combination of these three individuals, and the three worlds they represent, was the only thing that was going to get this done,” said Thomas R. Nides, a former U.S. ambassador to Israel. “You needed pressure from all sides — pressure from the Arab world, pressure from Biden, and pressure from Trump.”
An array of officials and interlocutors had helped push negotiations forward for more than a year; on the American side, Mr. McGurk had helped oversee U.S. mediation efforts since the opening weeks of the war alongside other key players, including the head of the C.I.A., William J. Burns.
But in the final days, it came down to the triumvirate.
It was Mr. McGurk, a veteran diplomat long focused on the Middle East, who helped craft the deal’s complicated details nearly a year ago.
It was Mr. Witkoff, a real estate investor who plays golf with Mr. Trump, who was instrumental in persuading Israel to finally agree to the deal’s contents.
And it was Sheikh Mohammed who persuaded Hamas to make key compromises, while providing both sides with the office space in which to wrangle the final details. …”
The Sheikh, the Mogul and the Diplomat: The Trio Who Sealed the Gaza Truce
The Qatari prime minister, working with both President Biden’s envoy and President-elect Donald J. Trump’s representative, formed an unlikely partnership.“… What pushed the deal over the line this past week was the unlikely partnership between the envoys of America’s current and future presidents, working in tandem with the Qatari prime minister in marathon late-night meetings.
While Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump have competed for credit, the reality is that their representatives were both crucial to the final push, each using different approaches to push the Israeli leadership toward a deal while Sheikh Mohammed focused on Hamas.
…
“They aren’t natural partners, but the combination of these three individuals, and the three worlds they represent, was the only thing that was going to get this done,” said Thomas R. Nides, a former U.S. ambassador to Israel. “You needed pressure from all sides — pressure from the Arab world, pressure from Biden, and pressure from Trump.”
An array of officials and interlocutors had helped push negotiations forward for more than a year; on the American side, Mr. McGurk had helped oversee U.S. mediation efforts since the opening weeks of the war alongside other key players, including the head of the C.I.A., William J. Burns.
But in the final days, it came down to the triumvirate.
It was Mr. McGurk, a veteran diplomat long focused on the Middle East, who helped craft the deal’s complicated details nearly a year ago.
It was Mr. Witkoff, a real estate investor who plays golf with Mr. Trump, who was instrumental in persuading Israel to finally agree to the deal’s contents.
And it was Sheikh Mohammed who persuaded Hamas to make key compromises, while providing both sides with the office space in which to wrangle the final details. …”
- Messages
- 10,857
Continued
“… Momentum returned after Mr. Trump’s re-election in November, even before the president-elect warned Hamas that there would be “all hell to pay” if the hostages were not released by his inauguration. He appointed Mr. Witkoff, who had no diplomatic experience but growing business relationships in Qatar, as his emissary in the Middle East. Mr. Witkoff had been playing golf with Mr. Trump in September during what law enforcement officials said was an attempt on the former and future president’s life.
Quietly, members of the Biden administration reached out to Mr. Witkoff to see if they could work together on the cease-fire talks, according to two people familiar with the conversations. Despite vast political chasms between their bosses, Mr. McGurk and Mr. Witkoff began to coordinate, sometimes talking several times a day, according to one of the people.
… Sheikh Mohammed persuaded Hamas to confirm the names of more than 30 hostages who would be released during the first six weeks of a truce, a long-awaited move that suggested the group was genuinely interested in a deal, the people said. The reason for Hamas’s shift remains unclear, but analysts say that Israel’s increasing dominance over Hamas’s main allies, Hezbollah and Iran, left the group feeling isolated, while its own losses on the battlefield in Gaza left it feeling weakened.
… Mr. McGurk was informed of the breakthrough while attending his daughter’s birthday party at an indoor trampoline park on Jan. 4, according to two people familiar with the event. He left the party halfway through, immediately flying to Doha to meet Sheikh Mohammed, his Egyptian counterparts and Israeli negotiators. Mr. Witkoff joined him on Jan. 10, and the pair agreed with Sheikh Mohammed that the Americans would jointly focus on cajoling Israel while the prime minister would press Hamas.
… It was a visit at short notice by Mr. Witkoff to Jerusalem last Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, that brought a new breakthrough, according to four officials briefed on the meeting.
Mr. Witkoff sat with Mr. Netanyahu and senior Israeli officials in the prime minister’s Jerusalem office, with Mr. McGurk joining the discussion by telephone.
… The two Americans pressed Mr. Netanyahu to soften on the last two big obstacles, according to a person familiar with the discussion. Mr. McGurk warned the Israeli leader that he risked losing his best chance of sealing a deal. Then Mr. Witkoff applied the necessary pressure, stressing to Mr. Netanyahu that Mr. Trump wanted this deal done, the person said.
… After the meeting, Mr. Netanyahu seemed to have changed his attitude, four officials said. He immediately ordered his four top negotiators — including David Barnea, the head of Israel’s foreign intelligence agency, and Ronen Bar, Israel’s domestic spy chief — to Doha. …”
“… Momentum returned after Mr. Trump’s re-election in November, even before the president-elect warned Hamas that there would be “all hell to pay” if the hostages were not released by his inauguration. He appointed Mr. Witkoff, who had no diplomatic experience but growing business relationships in Qatar, as his emissary in the Middle East. Mr. Witkoff had been playing golf with Mr. Trump in September during what law enforcement officials said was an attempt on the former and future president’s life.
Quietly, members of the Biden administration reached out to Mr. Witkoff to see if they could work together on the cease-fire talks, according to two people familiar with the conversations. Despite vast political chasms between their bosses, Mr. McGurk and Mr. Witkoff began to coordinate, sometimes talking several times a day, according to one of the people.
… Sheikh Mohammed persuaded Hamas to confirm the names of more than 30 hostages who would be released during the first six weeks of a truce, a long-awaited move that suggested the group was genuinely interested in a deal, the people said. The reason for Hamas’s shift remains unclear, but analysts say that Israel’s increasing dominance over Hamas’s main allies, Hezbollah and Iran, left the group feeling isolated, while its own losses on the battlefield in Gaza left it feeling weakened.
… Mr. McGurk was informed of the breakthrough while attending his daughter’s birthday party at an indoor trampoline park on Jan. 4, according to two people familiar with the event. He left the party halfway through, immediately flying to Doha to meet Sheikh Mohammed, his Egyptian counterparts and Israeli negotiators. Mr. Witkoff joined him on Jan. 10, and the pair agreed with Sheikh Mohammed that the Americans would jointly focus on cajoling Israel while the prime minister would press Hamas.
… It was a visit at short notice by Mr. Witkoff to Jerusalem last Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, that brought a new breakthrough, according to four officials briefed on the meeting.
Mr. Witkoff sat with Mr. Netanyahu and senior Israeli officials in the prime minister’s Jerusalem office, with Mr. McGurk joining the discussion by telephone.
… The two Americans pressed Mr. Netanyahu to soften on the last two big obstacles, according to a person familiar with the discussion. Mr. McGurk warned the Israeli leader that he risked losing his best chance of sealing a deal. Then Mr. Witkoff applied the necessary pressure, stressing to Mr. Netanyahu that Mr. Trump wanted this deal done, the person said.
… After the meeting, Mr. Netanyahu seemed to have changed his attitude, four officials said. He immediately ordered his four top negotiators — including David Barnea, the head of Israel’s foreign intelligence agency, and Ronen Bar, Israel’s domestic spy chief — to Doha. …”
- Messages
- 10,857
Continued
“… The Israeli and Hamas teams, based on different floors, never saw each other; they took turns entering the prime minister’s office for updates on their enemy’s latest position.
Progress was sometimes hindered by the nature of Hamas’s command structure, which required its leaders in Qatar to check certain details with their counterparts in Gaza, who are all in hiding and hard to reach.
Mr. McGurk and Mr. Witkoff also often checked in with their respective bosses; at times, Mr. McGurk was speaking with Mr. Biden while Mr. Witkoff, just yards away, was on the phone with Mr. Trump or his team, according to a person familiar with the scene.
“We were negotiating word by word, sentence by sentence and formula by formula,” said Mohammed Al-Khulaifi, a minister of state in the Qatari foreign ministry. “It becomes exhausting mentally and physically.”
…
Sheikh Mohammed told the two Americans that the deal could be closed if Israel could make two more compromises, according to one of the people.
Mr. McGurk and Mr. Witkoff walked together down the corridor to the Israelis’ room, where the negotiators were already speaking by phone with Mr. Netanyahu. Joining the call, the Americans told the Israeli leader that a deal could be reached if he agreed to slightly increase the number of prisoners involved in the swap, as well as slightly decrease the depth of the buffer zone.
After a loud debate in Hebrew between Mr. Netanyahu and his team, they made the compromise.
… That final wrangling continued into Thursday, with Mr. McGurk and Mr. Witkoff finally leaving Qatar that night.
The deal was cemented — and so was one of the unlikeliest pairings in diplomatic history.“
“… The Israeli and Hamas teams, based on different floors, never saw each other; they took turns entering the prime minister’s office for updates on their enemy’s latest position.
Progress was sometimes hindered by the nature of Hamas’s command structure, which required its leaders in Qatar to check certain details with their counterparts in Gaza, who are all in hiding and hard to reach.
Mr. McGurk and Mr. Witkoff also often checked in with their respective bosses; at times, Mr. McGurk was speaking with Mr. Biden while Mr. Witkoff, just yards away, was on the phone with Mr. Trump or his team, according to a person familiar with the scene.
“We were negotiating word by word, sentence by sentence and formula by formula,” said Mohammed Al-Khulaifi, a minister of state in the Qatari foreign ministry. “It becomes exhausting mentally and physically.”
…
Sheikh Mohammed told the two Americans that the deal could be closed if Israel could make two more compromises, according to one of the people.
Mr. McGurk and Mr. Witkoff walked together down the corridor to the Israelis’ room, where the negotiators were already speaking by phone with Mr. Netanyahu. Joining the call, the Americans told the Israeli leader that a deal could be reached if he agreed to slightly increase the number of prisoners involved in the swap, as well as slightly decrease the depth of the buffer zone.
After a loud debate in Hebrew between Mr. Netanyahu and his team, they made the compromise.
… That final wrangling continued into Thursday, with Mr. McGurk and Mr. Witkoff finally leaving Qatar that night.
The deal was cemented — and so was one of the unlikeliest pairings in diplomatic history.“