Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

[RaiGuy]

I certainly wouldn't have ran across the border and raped and slaughtered anyone I could find.

This didn't start on 10/7, but 10/7 marked a dramatic escalation in the way that 9/11 marked a dramatic escalation in the war between the United States and terror groups.

No mention of the killings, assaults, humiliations, and home demolitions Israel did to the Palestinians leading up to this?

 

[farce©]

And I realize I'm arguing with Bo, which is a waste of e everyone's time. I'm done.

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

I'm not an Israeli leader or an allied diplomat. It's not my job to figure out what to do. But I can see what isn't working, as they can yet they persist. Their goal is to destroy Hamas, which is impossible. The only question is how many civilians will they kill in pursuit of an impossible goal?

The WWII analogies are false. Germany and Japan had powerful warmaking capabilities. Hamas has never had such acapacity.

It may not be possible to destroy Hamas, but it is possible to weaken them to the point where they can never mount an attack like 10/7 again. And we may be close to that point now, if we aren't there already.

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

And I realize I'm arguing with Bo, which is a waste of e everyone's time. I'm done.

Sure, if you want to bow out of a respectful conversation because of a strange grudge you have been holding since 2010, that is your prerogative. I certainly won't waste my time if that is how you feel.

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

No mention of the killings, assaults, humiliations, and home demolitions Israel did to the Palestinians leading up to this?

Or the kidnappings, suicide bombings, and terrorist attacks that Palestinians did leading up to that? We can play chicken or the egg all day long. 10/7 was different. As is this response.

 

[RaiGuy]

It may not be possible to destroy Hamas, but it is possible to weaken them to the point where they can never mount an attack like 10/7 again. And we may be close to that point now, if we aren't there already.

What about the fact that Netanyahu was keeping Hamas in power by funding them and helping delay elections?

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

What about the fact that Netanyahu was keeping Hamas in power by funding them and helping delay elections?

Certainly a mistake that he won't repeat. I highly doubt he thought that they were capable of something like 10/7. They had an unofficial arrangement....Hamas gets support and in return they don't do anything stupid. Hamas decided to scuttle that arrangement in a major way.

 

[RaiGuy]

Or the kidnappings, suicide bombings, and terrorist attacks that Palestinians did leading up to that? We can play chicken or the egg all day long. 10/7 was different. As is this response.

There were over 200 Palestinians killed last year pre-Oct 7th. The amount of violence was heavily slanted from one side.

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

There were over 200 Palestinians killed last year pre-Oct 7th. The amount of violence was heavily slanted from one side.

Most of whom were militants killed in military operations, and who were killed over the course of 10 months. That differs substantially from 1,000 civilians being murdered in one day and hundreds more kidnapped.

 

[RaiGuy]

Most of whom were militants killed in military operations, and who were killed over the course of 10 months. That differs substantially from 1,000 civilians being murdered in one day and hundreds more kidnapped.

That is 100% false. Most of them were in the West Bank. Also, if you’re talking about militants, ironically, the ratio of soldiers to civilians killed during Oct 7th is higher than everything Israel has done since. Yet, Israel doesn’t get any blame or pushback on their actions.

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

That is 100% false. Most of them were in the West Bank. Also, if you’re talking about militants, ironically, the ratio of soldiers to civilians killed during Oct 7th is higher than everything Israel has done since. Yet, Israel doesn’t get any blame or pushback on their actions.

What's the ratio of soldiers to civilians killed during October 7th? Do share.

The soldier/civilian fatality ratio in the Gaza War is one of the lowest in modern warfare, despite Hamas's efforts to the contrary.

 

[Carolyn225]

The difference is that Israel actually values the lives of its citizens, while Hamas views Palestinian civilians as nothing more than cannon fodder for its PR campaign. How can you safely and effectively wage war against an enemy that openly admits to trying to get as many innocent civilians on its side killed as possible? I feel for the innocent Palestinians, because they are caught in a situation in which their own government wants them dead and the Israeli government doesn't care enough to keep them alive.

Simply No; who in the world are we to make judgements about who values their citizens? I simply cannot abide by this notion that any non western people do not value human life. An honest assessment of such a dire situation requires us to step away from our own ethnocentrism and not impugn to others such a value laden distortion!

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

Simply No; who in the world are we to make judgements about who values their citizens? I simply cannot abide by this notion that any non western people do not value human life. An honest assessment of such a dire situation requires us to step away from our own ethnocentrism and not impugn to others such a value laden distortion!

It is easy to make judgements about Hamas not valuing Palestinian civilians when Hamas's leadership has explicitly stated "we don't value the lives of Palestinian civilians". They want as many civilian casualties as possible because it helps them in their PR battle. If Hamas cared about civilians, it wouldn't use civilian infrastructure such as hospitals and schools to conduct military operations.

 

[Carolyn225]

I'm not an Israeli leader or an allied diplomat. It's not my job to figure out what to do. But I can see what isn't working, as they can yet they persist. Their goal is to destroy Hamas, which is impossible. The only question is how many civilians will they kill in pursuit of an impossible goal?

The WWII analogies are false. Germany and Japan had powerful warmaking capabilities. Hamas has never had such acapacity.

I am in agreement and it is simplistic thinking to compare today with yesterday; Palestinians are not today's reincarnation of Germans or Japanese; different time period, history and circumstances, all of which fails as a reference point regarding radicalization.

 

[RaiGuy]

What's the ratio of soldiers to civilians killed during October 7th? Do share.

The soldier/civilian fatality ratio in the Gaza War is one of the lowest in modern warfare, despite Hamas's efforts to the contrary.

25% killed on Oct 7 were soldiers

With the shock of Oct. 7 still raw, profound sadness and anger grip Israel on its Memorial Day

Families of the fallen, along with broad segments of the public, are demanding accountability from Israeli leaders over the failures that led to the deadliest attack in the country’s history.

apnews.com

The second part of your post is completely false. There have already been 16,000 children killed! Are they considered part of Hamas? How about you share how many militants Israel has killed vs civilians?

 

[Carolyn225]

It is easy to make judgements about Hamas not valuing Palestinian civilians when Hamas's leadership has explicitly stated "we don't value the lives of Palestinian civilians". They want as many civilian casualties as possible because it helps them in their PR battle. If Hamas cared about civilians, it wouldn't use civilian infrastructure such as hospitals and schools to conduct military operations.

Easy judgements are also failed judgements because there is not any rigor to the thought process!

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

25% killed on Oct 7 were soldiers

With the shock of Oct. 7 still raw, profound sadness and anger grip Israel on its Memorial Day

Families of the fallen, along with broad segments of the public, are demanding accountability from Israeli leaders over the failures that led to the deadliest attack in the country’s history.

apnews.com

The second part of your post is completely false. There have already been 16,000 children killed! Are they considered part of Hamas? How about you share how many militants Israel has killed vs civilians?

Absolutely. Longer article, but with plenty of backing for his data:

The genocide claim against Israel doesn’t add up

The ratio of combatant-to-civilian casualties in Gaza should be recognized as a historical achievement of protecting civilian lives

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[RaiGuy]

Absolutely. Longer article, but with plenty of backing for his data:

The genocide claim against Israel doesn’t add up

The ratio of combatant-to-civilian casualties in Gaza should be recognized as a historical achievement of protecting civilian lives

www.timesofisrael.com

Times of Israel? That site might as well be called Israelpropoganda.com lol

can you tell me why Israel blocks all outside investigators and press? What are they hiding?

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

Times of Israel? That site might as well be called Israelpropoganda.com lol

can you tell me why Israel blocks all outside investigators and press? What are they hiding?

The data in the article is well sourced. You seem to have no problem posting information from propaganda X and Instagram accounts and Al Jazeera on here.

 

[RaiGuy]

The data in the article is well sourced. You seem to have no problem posting information from propaganda X and Instagram accounts and Al Jazeera on here.

Well sourced? One of the “sources” is a commentary article. Also, if they really felt this way and wanted to prove it, then they’d allow outside investigators. Out of curiosity, how long have you been following the situation there? What’s your background with it?