Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

[RaiGuy]

Launching thousands of missiles at a sovereign nation because "they don't deserve to exist" isn't "self-defense". No other nation on the planet would be expected to simply sit by and let a terrorist group set up missile launchers on its border and launch thousands of missiles at its cities. Kudos to Israel for taking them out. As it stands, Hezbollah has indicated that they do not plan to retaliate, so Israel's actions last night likely saved many lives on both sides. Perhaps Hamas should take notes.

But it’s fine for Israel to do it when they don’t want their neighboring countries to exist?

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

But it’s fine for Israel to do it when they don’t want their neighboring countries to exist?

I'm not interested in hypotheticals. Just the reality on the ground. Can you provide a link to Netanyahu stating that he wants to launch missiles at Lebanon until it ceases to exist?

 

[RaiGuy]

I'm not interested in hypotheticals. Just the reality on the ground. Can you provide a link to Netanyahu stating that he wants to launch missiles at Lebanon until it ceases to exist?

People in his administration have referenced Greater Israel, which would extend Israel’s border taking over Lebanon, Jordan, parts of Syria, Iraq, and Saudi. To me, that means they don’t want Lebanon to exist.

 

[ecgriff]

You’re playing the anti-Semitic card? lol
I said nothing about Jews. Israel doesn’t represent Judaism. Your logic is flawed. That would be like me saying that you think it’s bad when Muslims defend themselves if I am talking about Iran retaliating to Israel.

Also, Hezbollah is an official party of the Lebanese government. Only Israel is allowed to bomb neighboring countries as acts of “self-defense” and then plays the victim card if those countries retaliate.

Vast majority of Jews would disagree that Israel doesn’t represent Judaism. The importance of the existence of Israel should be clear to everyone after all the anti semitic behavior in Europe and US over the past year. Israel is constantly threatened and bombed by terror proxies and countries that believe the Middle East should be a homogeneous region with no Jews. And what I’ve noticed about most people who condemn Israel for post Oct 7 military actions and say they don’t support what happened on Oct 7 is they contradict themselves. You will hear them say Hamas is bad, Oct 7 was bad, but other then that they will not criticize Hamas anymore. They take all the numbers out of Gaza at face value, say they aren’t all Hamas but you’ll later hear them say “of course they support Hamas, how could they not?”. Just never hear any criticism of Hamas outside of Oct 7. Also I hear the Hannibal directive conspiracy used a lot. Which hasn’t been a IDF policy in over a decade. It had nothing to do with Israelis who aren’t active duty in the IDF. It simply was policy that IDF was allowed to take risks if soldier was taken hostage bc the torture would be so severe by Hamas.

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

People in his administration have referenced Greater Israel, which would extend Israel’s border taking over Lebanon, Jordan, parts of Syria, Iraq, and Saudi. To me, that means they don’t want Lebanon to exist.

That's not the same thing and you know it. Nasrallah is on the record as stating that his goal is to destroy Israel. His terrorist group set up rockets on the Israeli border and has launched thousands of missiles at Israeli civilians. No sovereign nation would tolerate that as long as Israel has. Israel took care of the problem with minimal casualties, saving thousands of lives on both sides. I'm sure Hezbollah is just as happy to avoid major war as Israel is. However, Israel can do no right to you.

 

[RaiGuy]

Vast majority of Jews would disagree that Israel doesn’t represent Judaism. The importance of the existence of Israel should be clear to everyone after all the anti semitic behavior in Europe and US over the past year. Israel is constantly threatened and bombed by terror proxies and countries that believe the Middle East should be a homogeneous region with no Jews. And what I’ve noticed about most people who condemn Israel for post Oct 7 military actions and say they don’t support what happened on Oct 7 is they contradict themselves. You will hear them say Hamas is bad, Oct 7 was bad, but other then that they will not criticize Hamas anymore. They take all the numbers out of Gaza at face value, say they aren’t all Hamas but you’ll later hear them say “of course they support Hamas, how could they not?”. Also I hear the Hannibal directive conspiracy used a lot. Which hasn’t been a IDF policy in over a decade. It had nothing to do with Israelis who aren’t active duty in the IDF. It simply was policy that IDF was allowed to take risks if soldier was taken hostage bc the torture would be so severe by Hamas.

That is not the reason that Israel is “constantly threatened and bombed.” The reason for that is that they are constantly threatening and killing Palestinians and attack neighboring countries without repercussions. You can instigate people and expect them to sit quietly and take it.

Well, the reason Israel is being criticized more than Hamas after Oct 7 because Israel has slaughtered over 40k (nearly half children) and are continuing to do so. If Hamas was doing that, we would be condemning them now. Doesn’t mean we support them because we’re not actively condemning their actions.

Also, the use of the Hannibal directive was reported by Israeli media. It’s not a conspiracy.

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

That is not the reason that Israel is “constantly threatened and bombed.” The reason for that is that they are constantly threatening and killing Palestinians and attack neighboring countries without repercussions. You can instigate people and expect them to sit quietly and take it.

Well, the reason Israel is being criticized more than Hamas after Oct 7 because Israel has slaughtered over 40k (nearly half children) and are continuing to do so. If Hamas was doing that, we would be condemning them now. Doesn’t mean we support them because we’re not actively condemning their actions.

Also, the use of the Hannibal directive was reported by Israeli media. It’s not a conspiracy.

I wasn't aware that launching thousands of missiles at civilians, sending suicide bombers to blow up teenage girls at dance parties and ice cream parlors, or kidnapping, raping, and murdering hundreds of civilians in one day was "sitting quietly and taking it." Amazing how eager some people are to forget what Hamas has done.

 

[RaiGuy]

I wasn't aware that launching thousands of missiles at civilians, sending suicide bombers to blow up teenage girls at dance parties and ice cream parlors, or kidnapping, raping, and murdering hundreds of civilians in one day was "sitting quietly and taking it." Amazing how eager some people are to forget what Hamas has done.

I’m talking about 75+ years of occupation, torture, killing, raping, and humiliation. Amazing how some people forget or are ignorant of what Israel does on a daily basis.

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

I’m talking about 75+ years of occupation, torture, killing, raping, and humiliation. Amazing how some people forget or are ignorant of what Israel does on a daily basis.

I'm talking about 75+ years of terrorism, torture, killing, raping, and indiscriminate massacres aimed at civilians. Amazing how some people keep trying to justify Hamas's actions.

 

[RaiGuy]

I'm talking about 75+ years of terrorism, torture, killing, raping, and indiscriminate massacres aimed at civilians. Amazing how some people keep trying to justify Hamas's actions.

Funny, Hamas was created in the 80s. Seems like you are the one that has forgotten the history.
Also ironic that you defend Israel by saying civilian death is a part of war, but then are quick to criticize Hamas.

Killing of innocents on either side should be condemned and not justified or excused as a part of war.

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

Funny, Hamas was created in the 80s. Seems like you are the one that has forgotten the history.
Also ironic that you defend Israel by saying civilian death is a part of war, but then are quick to criticize Hamas.

Killing of innocents on either side should be condemned and not justified or excused as a part of war.

Hamas was created in the 1980s, but there were other groups before them.
If Hamas had accidentally killed Israeli civilians while attacking Israeli military targets, things would be different. That's not what happened. Hamas's modus operandi is to kill as many civilians as possible. They have also stated that their goal is to get as many innocent Palestinian civilians killed as possible in order to help their P.R. campaign. All while their leaders live a life of safe luxury in Qatar. There is a difference between intentionally killing civilians, and going after military targets but also generating collateral damage among civilians. Hamas's policy is the former, while Israel's is the latter.

 

[RaiGuy]

Hamas was created in the 1980s, but there were other groups before them.
If Hamas had accidentally killed Israeli civilians while attacking Israeli military targets, things would be different. That's not what happened. Hamas's modus operandi is to kill as many civilians as possible. They have also stated that their goal is to get as many innocent Palestinian civilians killed as possible in order to help their P.R. campaign. All while their leaders live a life of safe luxury in Qatar. There is a difference between intentionally killing civilians, and going after military targets but also generating collateral damage among civilians. Hamas's policy is the former, while Israel's is the latter.

Really? Israel is going after military targets? Sniping children, bombing water towers, bombing every school and university, bombing churches and mosques, bombing hospitals, bombing refugee tents, etc…. are all fine because of Hamas, right? You’re so hypocritical and blinded by the Israeli propaganda.

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

Really? Israel is going after military targets? Sniping children, bombing water towers, bombing every school and university, bombing churches and mosques, bombing hospitals, bombing refugee tents, etc…. are all fine because of Hamas, right? You’re so hypocritical and blinded by the Israeli propaganda.

When Hamas uses universities, schools, mosques, and hospitals as military facilities, and when it launches rockets next to refugee tents and other civilian infrastructure because its plan is to get as many innocents killed on both sides as possible, the blame is as much if not more so on them than it is the IDF. Hezbollah did it right, they placed their launchers in wooded areas away from civilians and the result was minimal loss of life and both sides content to move on.

 

[RaiGuy]

When Hamas uses universities, schools, mosques, and hospitals as military facilities, and when it launches rockets next to refugee tents and other civilian infrastructure because its plan is to get as many innocents killed on both sides as possible, the blame is as much if not more so on them than it is the IDF. Hezbollah did it right, they placed their launchers in wooded areas away from civilians and the result was minimal loss of life and both sides content to move on.

By that logic, Hamas was justified in attacking the music festival because there were soldiers there. See, that doesn’t make sense.

Israel provides no concrete evidence for its claims. It basically just tells the world to take its word that it’s true, but video evidence shows the opposite.

So, why did they demolish the whole university with explosives? If no one was there, why didn’t they do a sweep and clear it out or gather evidence? Instead, they planted explosives all around and demolished it and used the blanket excuse that Hamas operates from there (which is false…I know people that went there and they never saw any Hamas activities in that area). You keep recycling the same Israeli propaganda excuses with no hard evidence. You can see why that’s frustrating.

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

By that logic, Hamas was justified in attacking the music festival because there were soldiers there. See, that doesn’t make sense.

Israel provides no concrete evidence for its claims. It basically just tells the world to take its word that it’s true, but video evidence shows the opposite.

So, why did they demolish the whole university with explosives? If no one was there, why didn’t they do a sweep and clear it out or gather evidence? Instead, they planted explosives all around and demolished it and used the blanket excuse that Hamas operates from there (which is false…I know people that went there and they never saw any Hamas activities in that area). You keep recycling the same Israeli propaganda excuses with no hard evidence. You can see why that’s frustrating.

Pretty big difference between a bomb dropped from an aircraft at a military target taking out the building next door and literally raping and slaughtering hundreds of unarmed kids at a concert. There’s no equivalency there. One action was accidental and one was intentional.

Israel provides plenty of evidence for its claims. The UN has also found and provided evidence of a Hamas using civilians as human shields. Hamas has stated that they do this in their own words.

 

[RaiGuy]

Pretty big difference between a bomb dropped from an aircraft at a military target taking out the building next door and literally raping and slaughtering hundreds of unarmed kids at a concert. There’s no equivalency there. One action was accidental and one was intentional.

Israel provides plenty of evidence for its claims. The UN has also found and provided evidence of a Hamas using civilians as human shields. Hamas has stated that they do this in their own words.

Yeah, using a military bomb from an aircraft wipes out a whole city block and incinerates unarmed children. There’s only no equivalence there from the view of your flawed logic.

So, by your logic, Hezbollah can rain bombs on Tel Aviv because the Defense Ministry is in the middle of the city and they are using the people there as human shields.

Israeli officials say they don’t target civilians because they claim everyone there is Hamas and there aren’t any innocent civilians. I am tired of this argument because how absurd it is to believe that Israel is protecting citizens.

It’s also funny how you use the UN as proof, but ignore the fact that Israel has been condemned in more UN resolutions than any country in the world….and that doesn’t include the countless resolutions that would have passed if the US didn’t veto them. It’s clear to me that you follow this issue from only one side and have no interest to learn about what’s happening on the other side.

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

Yeah, using a military bomb from an aircraft wipes out a whole city block and incinerates unarmed children. There’s only no equivalence there from the view of your flawed logic.

So, by your logic, Hezbollah can rain bombs on Tel Aviv because the Defense Ministry is in the middle of the city and they are using the people there as human shields.

Israeli officials say they don’t target civilians because they claim everyone there is Hamas and there aren’t any innocent civilians. I am tired of this argument because how absurd it is to believe that Israel is protecting citizens.

It’s also funny how you use the UN as proof, but ignore the fact that Israel has been condemned in more UN resolutions than any country in the world….and that doesn’t include the countless resolutions that would have passed if the US didn’t veto them. It’s clear to me that you follow this issue from only one side and have no interest to learn about what’s happening on the other side.

Pot, meet kettle. Israel launches a highly strategic military strike against military targets with no collateral damage and gets nothing but criticism from you.

And, contrary to what you state, Israel doesn’t have any bombs (aside from nukes) that level entire city blocks. In fact, it has routinely been using the smallest bombs possible to limit collateral damage. There’s not a military on earth that could do better than Israel has in Gaza.

 

[RaiGuy]

Pot, meet kettle. Israel launches a highly strategic military strike against military targets with no collateral damage and gets nothing but criticism from you.

And, contrary to what you state, Israel doesn’t have any bombs (aside from nukes) that level entire city blocks. In fact, it has routinely been using the smallest bombs possible to limit collateral damage. There’s not a military on earth that could do better than Israel has in Gaza.

If you believe that, then we can just end this debate and agree to disagree. You are getting your info from one side and clearly have not seen any of the footage of what is actually happening there. There’s nothing remotely highly strategic in Israel’s actions.

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

If you believe that, then we can just end this debate and agree to disagree. You are getting your info from one side and clearly have not seen any of the footage of what is actually happening there. There’s nothing remotely highly strategic in Israel’s actions.

Once again, pot meet kettle. I don’t think anyone here is changing their minds.

 

[RaiGuy]

Once again, pot meet kettle. I don’t think anyone here is changing their minds.

In that case, might as well lock this thread