Israel Hamas War | IDF Kills peaceful American Protester in West Bank

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2ManyBlueCups said:
I wasn't aware that launching thousands of missiles at civilians, sending suicide bombers to blow up teenage girls at dance parties and ice cream parlors, or kidnapping, raping, and murdering hundreds of civilians in one day was "sitting quietly and taking it." Amazing how eager some people are to forget what Hamas has done.
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I’m talking about 75+ years of occupation, torture, killing, raping, and humiliation. Amazing how some people forget or are ignorant of what Israel does on a daily basis.
 
RaiGuy said:
I’m talking about 75+ years of occupation, torture, killing, raping, and humiliation. Amazing how some people forget or are ignorant of what Israel does on a daily basis.
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I'm talking about 75+ years of terrorism, torture, killing, raping, and indiscriminate massacres aimed at civilians. Amazing how some people keep trying to justify Hamas's actions.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
I'm talking about 75+ years of terrorism, torture, killing, raping, and indiscriminate massacres aimed at civilians. Amazing how some people keep trying to justify Hamas's actions.
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Funny, Hamas was created in the 80s. Seems like you are the one that has forgotten the history.
Also ironic that you defend Israel by saying civilian death is a part of war, but then are quick to criticize Hamas.

Killing of innocents on either side should be condemned and not justified or excused as a part of war.
 
RaiGuy said:
Funny, Hamas was created in the 80s. Seems like you are the one that has forgotten the history.
Also ironic that you defend Israel by saying civilian death is a part of war, but then are quick to criticize Hamas.

Killing of innocents on either side should be condemned and not justified or excused as a part of war.
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Hamas was created in the 1980s, but there were other groups before them.
If Hamas had accidentally killed Israeli civilians while attacking Israeli military targets, things would be different. That's not what happened. Hamas's modus operandi is to kill as many civilians as possible. They have also stated that their goal is to get as many innocent Palestinian civilians killed as possible in order to help their P.R. campaign. All while their leaders live a life of safe luxury in Qatar. There is a difference between intentionally killing civilians, and going after military targets but also generating collateral damage among civilians. Hamas's policy is the former, while Israel's is the latter.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Hamas was created in the 1980s, but there were other groups before them.
If Hamas had accidentally killed Israeli civilians while attacking Israeli military targets, things would be different. That's not what happened. Hamas's modus operandi is to kill as many civilians as possible. They have also stated that their goal is to get as many innocent Palestinian civilians killed as possible in order to help their P.R. campaign. All while their leaders live a life of safe luxury in Qatar. There is a difference between intentionally killing civilians, and going after military targets but also generating collateral damage among civilians. Hamas's policy is the former, while Israel's is the latter.
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Really? Israel is going after military targets? Sniping children, bombing water towers, bombing every school and university, bombing churches and mosques, bombing hospitals, bombing refugee tents, etc…. are all fine because of Hamas, right? You’re so hypocritical and blinded by the Israeli propaganda.
 
RaiGuy said:
Really? Israel is going after military targets? Sniping children, bombing water towers, bombing every school and university, bombing churches and mosques, bombing hospitals, bombing refugee tents, etc…. are all fine because of Hamas, right? You’re so hypocritical and blinded by the Israeli propaganda.
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When Hamas uses universities, schools, mosques, and hospitals as military facilities, and when it launches rockets next to refugee tents and other civilian infrastructure because its plan is to get as many innocents killed on both sides as possible, the blame is as much if not more so on them than it is the IDF. Hezbollah did it right, they placed their launchers in wooded areas away from civilians and the result was minimal loss of life and both sides content to move on.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
When Hamas uses universities, schools, mosques, and hospitals as military facilities, and when it launches rockets next to refugee tents and other civilian infrastructure because its plan is to get as many innocents killed on both sides as possible, the blame is as much if not more so on them than it is the IDF. Hezbollah did it right, they placed their launchers in wooded areas away from civilians and the result was minimal loss of life and both sides content to move on.
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By that logic, Hamas was justified in attacking the music festival because there were soldiers there. See, that doesn’t make sense.

Israel provides no concrete evidence for its claims. It basically just tells the world to take its word that it’s true, but video evidence shows the opposite.

So, why did they demolish the whole university with explosives? If no one was there, why didn’t they do a sweep and clear it out or gather evidence? Instead, they planted explosives all around and demolished it and used the blanket excuse that Hamas operates from there (which is false…I know people that went there and they never saw any Hamas activities in that area). You keep recycling the same Israeli propaganda excuses with no hard evidence. You can see why that’s frustrating.
 
RaiGuy said:
By that logic, Hamas was justified in attacking the music festival because there were soldiers there. See, that doesn’t make sense.

Israel provides no concrete evidence for its claims. It basically just tells the world to take its word that it’s true, but video evidence shows the opposite.

So, why did they demolish the whole university with explosives? If no one was there, why didn’t they do a sweep and clear it out or gather evidence? Instead, they planted explosives all around and demolished it and used the blanket excuse that Hamas operates from there (which is false…I know people that went there and they never saw any Hamas activities in that area). You keep recycling the same Israeli propaganda excuses with no hard evidence. You can see why that’s frustrating.
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Pretty big difference between a bomb dropped from an aircraft at a military target taking out the building next door and literally raping and slaughtering hundreds of unarmed kids at a concert. There’s no equivalency there. One action was accidental and one was intentional.

Israel provides plenty of evidence for its claims. The UN has also found and provided evidence of a Hamas using civilians as human shields. Hamas has stated that they do this in their own words.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Pretty big difference between a bomb dropped from an aircraft at a military target taking out the building next door and literally raping and slaughtering hundreds of unarmed kids at a concert. There’s no equivalency there. One action was accidental and one was intentional.

Israel provides plenty of evidence for its claims. The UN has also found and provided evidence of a Hamas using civilians as human shields. Hamas has stated that they do this in their own words.
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Yeah, using a military bomb from an aircraft wipes out a whole city block and incinerates unarmed children. There’s only no equivalence there from the view of your flawed logic.

So, by your logic, Hezbollah can rain bombs on Tel Aviv because the Defense Ministry is in the middle of the city and they are using the people there as human shields.

Israeli officials say they don’t target civilians because they claim everyone there is Hamas and there aren’t any innocent civilians. I am tired of this argument because how absurd it is to believe that Israel is protecting citizens.

It’s also funny how you use the UN as proof, but ignore the fact that Israel has been condemned in more UN resolutions than any country in the world….and that doesn’t include the countless resolutions that would have passed if the US didn’t veto them. It’s clear to me that you follow this issue from only one side and have no interest to learn about what’s happening on the other side.
 
RaiGuy said:
Yeah, using a military bomb from an aircraft wipes out a whole city block and incinerates unarmed children. There’s only no equivalence there from the view of your flawed logic.

So, by your logic, Hezbollah can rain bombs on Tel Aviv because the Defense Ministry is in the middle of the city and they are using the people there as human shields.

Israeli officials say they don’t target civilians because they claim everyone there is Hamas and there aren’t any innocent civilians. I am tired of this argument because how absurd it is to believe that Israel is protecting citizens.

It’s also funny how you use the UN as proof, but ignore the fact that Israel has been condemned in more UN resolutions than any country in the world….and that doesn’t include the countless resolutions that would have passed if the US didn’t veto them. It’s clear to me that you follow this issue from only one side and have no interest to learn about what’s happening on the other side.
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Pot, meet kettle. Israel launches a highly strategic military strike against military targets with no collateral damage and gets nothing but criticism from you.

And, contrary to what you state, Israel doesn’t have any bombs (aside from nukes) that level entire city blocks. In fact, it has routinely been using the smallest bombs possible to limit collateral damage. There’s not a military on earth that could do better than Israel has in Gaza.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Pot, meet kettle. Israel launches a highly strategic military strike against military targets with no collateral damage and gets nothing but criticism from you.

And, contrary to what you state, Israel doesn’t have any bombs (aside from nukes) that level entire city blocks. In fact, it has routinely been using the smallest bombs possible to limit collateral damage. There’s not a military on earth that could do better than Israel has in Gaza.
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If you believe that, then we can just end this debate and agree to disagree. You are getting your info from one side and clearly have not seen any of the footage of what is actually happening there. There’s nothing remotely highly strategic in Israel’s actions.
 
RaiGuy said:
If you believe that, then we can just end this debate and agree to disagree. You are getting your info from one side and clearly have not seen any of the footage of what is actually happening there. There’s nothing remotely highly strategic in Israel’s actions.
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Once again, pot meet kettle. I don’t think anyone here is changing their minds.
 
RaiGuy said:
That is not the reason that Israel is “constantly threatened and bombed.” The reason for that is that they are constantly threatening and killing Palestinians and attack neighboring countries without repercussions. You can instigate people and expect them to sit quietly and take it.

Well, the reason Israel is being criticized more than Hamas after Oct 7 because Israel has slaughtered over 40k (nearly half children) and are continuing to do so. If Hamas was doing that, we would be condemning them now. Doesn’t mean we support them because we’re not actively condemning their actions.

Also, the use of the Hannibal directive was reported by Israeli media. It’s not a conspiracy.
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It’s conspiracy. The left wing media that reported it used electronic intifada as a source. Who in every article I’ve read make the purely speculative jump that because a few Israelis were killed by friendly fire majority of the casualties were from IDF? It’s nonsense.

Also my first cousin is on the USS Lincoln, Iran and Hezbollah/Houthis are going to find out if they don’t settle down soon. Lincoln being nearby is pretty strong show of force and is what diplomacy looks like. Can’t imagine things continue to escalate. My first cousin is a female and she helps steer it. :)
 
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ecgriff said:
It’s conspiracy. The left wing media that reported it used electronic intifada as a source. Who in every article I’ve read make the purely speculative jump that because a few Israelis were killed by friendly fire majority of the casualties were from IDF? It’s nonsense.

Also my first cousin is on the USS Lincoln, Iran and Hezbollah/Houthis are going to find out if they don’t settle down soon. Lincoln being nearby is pretty strong show of force and is what diplomacy looks like. Can’t imagine things continue to escalate. My first cousin is a female and she helps steer it. :)
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No, Haaretz reported it IDF officers invoked defunct 'Hannibal Protocol' during Oct. 7 fighting - report | The Times of Israel
I would link their article but it’s behind a paywall.

Also, I’ve asked this many times before and have yet to hear an answer. Why has Israel blocked external investigators? All the Oct 7th evidence has only been from the IDF and outside sources were restricted.
 
RaiGuy said:
No, Haaretz reported it IDF officers invoked defunct 'Hannibal Protocol' during Oct. 7 fighting - report | The Times of Israel
I would link their article but it’s behind a paywall.

Also, I’ve asked this many times before and have yet to hear an answer. Why has Israel blocked external investigators? All the Oct 7th evidence has only been from the IDF and outside sources were restricted.
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It says using unnamed source that the directive was put in place. But the two instances mentioned in article are about a car that Hamas was in with hostages and a house that Hamas was holding hostages in. None of these articles say what you imply they do.If you take a minute to pick thru them there is nothing of substance in any of them.
 
RaiGuy said:
No, Haaretz reported it IDF officers invoked defunct 'Hannibal Protocol' during Oct. 7 fighting - report | The Times of Israel
I would link their article but it’s behind a paywall.

Also, I’ve asked this many times before and have yet to hear an answer. Why has Israel blocked external investigators? All the Oct 7th evidence has only been from the IDF and outside sources were restricted.
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Why would Israel need outside investigators? They are perfectly capable of conducting investigations themselves. That would be like Germany telling the US after 9/11, "hey, we believe you and all but we are going to send our own team to the Pentagon to make sure it wasn't actually struck by a missile." We'd tell them to get lost. Israel doesn't need people from who knows where defiling dead bodies just to assuage some conspiracy theories.
 
Honestly, how is Hamas any different from the Irgun? Only difference is that with technology it is easier to commit more brutal terrorist attacks these days. Both should be condemned for terrorist acts against civilians. As should govts when they use disproportioanate and indisrimant force against civilians
en.wikipedia.org

Irgun - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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