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Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
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2ManyBlueCups said:
Seems like victim blaming to me. Heaven knows how hard it would be to blame the terrorist group that actually kidnapped the hostages for murdering them, just like they have done to over 1,000 other Israelis so far.
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1. The victims were six hostages. I am absolutely not blaming them. IDF is not a victim, even if blaming was my purpose
2. I'm just saying the explanation publicly released by IDF, is bullshit. Part of my confidence on this point is the never-ending stream of bullshit that spews forth from the IDF. I kind of get it: they are fighting a war; Hamas uses disinformation; so maybe IDF wants to use disinformation. I have no judgment to make there, other than to say I hate being lied to by governments unless there is a very good reason. And none of what is happening in Gaza qualifies as a very good reason.
3. I typically do not like to play "whose fault is it" games in general because they are rarely productive; in this particular conflict they are completely unanswerable. When someone says it's Israel's fault or Hamas' fault, they are basically just identifying themselves as partisans without having anything to add to the discussion. There have been thousands of incidents, big and small, that have led us to this point. Trying to sort through them in search for a conclusion about blame is a fool's errand.
 
nycfan said:


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It's puzzling that Biden is leaning on the guy with whom he might have leverage, rather than the guy with whom he has absolutely no leverage?

When Biden says that Hamas leaders will pay for their crimes, it pretty much takes him out of the role of neutral mediator. That's why Qatar has been talking with Hamas. What is Biden going to say? "Lay down your arms in a cease fire so we can haul you before the ICC and try you for crimes against humanity?"

So what's puzzling is that this "senior Israeli official" thinks Americans are stupid or gullible enough to fall for this shit.
 


Sickening

The people who did this want to derail any peace effort — they want to drive Israel to react violently and cause as much death and destruction as they can. The people who continue to support Hamas own this.



It probably also explains the Biden and Harris statements after this — whether they knew of videos, they probably knew more details of what happened.
 
nycfan said:


Sickening

The people who did this want to derail any peace effort — they want to drive Israel to react violently and cause as much death and destruction as they can. The people who continue to support Hamas own this.



It probably also explains the Biden and Harris statements after this — whether they knew of videos, they probably knew more details of what happened.
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That's horrifying.

**** Hamas.
 
TarSpiel said:
That's horrifying.

**** Hamas.
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Hamas is trying to force an endgame with Israel here at the expense of their Palestinian people. Rai, you have to realize that hamas knows that the outcome of them releasing these videos is that they are signing their death certificate. If they thought that doing this would turn public opinion (beyond the extremely small minority) in their favor, they are sorely mistaken.

I really do feel for the Palestinian innocents even if I dont agree with their desires for the repatriazation of Israel. But if hamas releases videos of their actual executions, you (and they) have to know that Israel will repay in spades.
 
CLT Heel said:
Hamas is trying to force an endgame with Israel here at the expense of their Palestinian people. Rai, you have to realize that hamas knows that the outcome of them releasing these videos is that they are signing their death certificate. If they thought that doing this would turn public opinion (beyond the extremely small minority) in their favor, they are sorely mistaken.

I really do feel for the Palestinian innocents even if I dont agree with their desires for the repatriazation of Israel. But if hamas releases videos of their actual executions, you (and they) have to know that Israel will repay in spades.
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Yup. If Hamas releases execution videos, the ceasefire deal (or what exists of it) is done. As are the pro “resistance” protests on campuses.
 
Batt Boy said:
Some time ago, another Iranian backed terror group tortured to death, over 8 months with doctors help, a hostage. Thankfully we got Mughniyeh in the end. The doc is still practicing outside Tehran.

These types need to be eliminated.

The IDF will hunt down those responsible, regardless of any ceasefires.
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Oh, I thought this was recent. Sadly, doctor-assisted torture was common in the 80s. It was all over South America. That's the main reason we got the UN Convention Against Torture -- which, I think, has worked pretty well all things considered. Well, the CAT and also the ICC. Not that torture doesn't exist (esp. in totalitarian states) but it's prevalence is much reduced. Which is, I suppose, good.

I really do not understand what Hamas thinks its end game is here, by releasing those videos. We often talk about how Israeli violence begets Palestinian hate and thus terror, but it can go the other direction also. How many IDF soldiers see these videos and lose all sympathy for Palestinians? How many possibly-moderate Israelis see this and decide that war, war, war is the solution?
 
CLT Heel said:
Hamas is trying to force an endgame with Israel here at the expense of their Palestinian people. Rai, you have to realize that hamas knows that the outcome of them releasing these videos is that they are signing their death certificate. If they thought that doing this would turn public opinion (beyond the extremely small minority) in their favor, they are sorely mistaken.

I really do feel for the Palestinian innocents even if I dont agree with their desires for the repatriazation of Israel. But if hamas releases videos of their actual executions, you (and they) have to know that Israel will repay in spades.
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I don’t quite understand this post. I’ve always said that killing of any civilian is wrong. At the same time, why are you giving Israel justification for killing more civilians when 6 Israeli civilians were killed, but say nothing when 46,000+ Palestinians have been killed? I just don’t get the justification. Both sides need to stop killing civilians.

Why doesn’t Israel realize that killing more Palestinians will only lead to more attacks from people that want to avenge deaths from the other side?
 
RaiGuy said:
I don’t quite understand this post. I’ve always said that killing of any civilian is wrong. At the same time, why are you giving Israel justification for killing more civilians when 6 Israeli civilians were killed, but say nothing when 46,000+ Palestinians have been killed? I just don’t get the justification. Both sides need to stop killing civilians.

Why doesn’t Israel realize that killing more Palestinians will only lead to more attacks from people that want to avenge deaths from the other side?
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could that be said for Oct 7th?
 
RaiGuy said:
I don’t quite understand this post. I’ve always said that killing of any civilian is wrong. At the same time, why are you giving Israel justification for killing more civilians when 6 Israeli civilians were killed, but say nothing when 46,000+ Palestinians have been killed? I just don’t get the justification. Both sides need to stop killing civilians.

Why doesn’t Israel realize that killing more Palestinians will only lead to more attacks from people that want to avenge deaths from the other side?
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Israel would prefer to not kill civilians. Hamas uses civilians as protection because they know Israel is more concerned about Palestinian civilians than Hamas is.

Hamas, and the Palestinians they are endangering, believes that dead civilian will be swept away to paradise, so there's no real reason to care.
 
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