Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

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ZenMode said:
Do you believe that Israel is targeting civilians?
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I do. There is video out there of them doing it.

I also think there is a lot of "let's drop a bomb hoping to hit some Hamas fighters and if it kills 20 kids, that's their own fault for living in a war zone."
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I do. There is video out there of them doing it.

I also think there is a lot of "let's drop a bomb hoping to hit some Hamas fighters and if it kills 20 kids, that's their own fault for living in a war zone."
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I don't know what video you're referring to, but videos are often edited and cropped with the intent to deceiving or not relaying the full story. We see that happening constantly on social media. It happened yesterday with video from the Hegseth hearing. If you have it, I'd like to see it.

Here's the way I look at it....

Hamas, using fan-powered hang gliders, hand-held guns and knives, killed 1,000 civilians in approximately 8 hours, which would work out to 3,000 over 24 hours - 1 day.

Last I saw, there were an estimated 46,000 Palestinians killed in about 470 days of fighting. That works out to about 100 civilians per day.

IF Israel were truly targeting civilians, using tanks, a full military and legit military weapons/bombs, and given the population density of Gaza of 15k/sq mile, you would think they'd at LEAST be matching the rate of Hamas, right? That would mean there should be at least 470,000 Palestinians killed. If you put the rate of death at 3,000 per 24 hours, we should see well over a million Palestinians killed.

The math doesn't reflect that Israel is targeting civilians. If anything it reflects exactly the opposite.
 
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ZenMode said:
I don't know what video you're referring to, but videos are often edited and cropped with the intent to deceiving or not relaying the full story. We see that happening constantly on social media. It happened yesterday with video from the Hegseth hearing. If you have it, I'd like to see it.

Here's the way I look at it....

Hamas, using fan-powered hang gliders, hand-held guns and knives, killed 1,000 civilians in approximately 8 hours, which would work out to 3,000 over 24 hours - 1 day.

Last I saw, there were an estimated 46,000 Palestinians killed in about 470 days of fighting. That works out to about 100 civilians per day.

IF Israel were truly targeting civilians, using tanks, a full military and legit military weapons/bombs, and given the population density of Gaza of 15k/sq mile, you would think they'd at LEAST be matching the rate of Hamas, right? That would mean there should be at least 470,000 Palestinians killed. If you put the rate of death at 3,000 per 24 hours, we should see well over a million Palestinians killed.

The math doesn't reflect that Israel is targeting civilians. If anything it reflects exactly the opposite.
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If this was an attempt to inoculate yourself from being taken seriously, it was wholly unnecessary.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
If this was an attempt to inoculate yourself from being taken seriously, it was wholly unnecessary.
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Some people prefer subjective measure when forming opinions. I prefer objective measures, over social media videos, when they're available.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
If this was an attempt to inoculate yourself from being taken seriously, it was wholly unnecessary.
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He doesn’t seek that, imo. He seeks chronic, subtle outrage and attention. This board continues to feed him a bounty.

Zen, and another markedly similar poster, are the most successful trolls in the h/o this board, imo. This place is their wellspring for a salve that soothes some kind of ego void.
 
ZenMode said:
I don't know what video you're referring to, but videos are often edited and cropped with the intent to deceiving or not relaying the full story. We see that happening constantly on social media. It happened yesterday with video from the Hegseth hearing. If you have it, I'd like to see it.

Here's the way I look at it....

Hamas, using fan-powered hang gliders, hand-held guns and knives, killed 1,000 civilians in approximately 8 hours, which would work out to 3,000 over 24 hours - 1 day.

Last I saw, there were an estimated 46,000 Palestinians killed in about 470 days of fighting. That works out to about 100 civilians per day.

IF Israel were truly targeting civilians, using tanks, a full military and legit military weapons/bombs, and given the population density of Gaza of 15k/sq mile, you would think they'd at LEAST be matching the rate of Hamas, right? That would mean there should be at least 470,000 Palestinians killed. If you put the rate of death at 3,000 per 24 hours, we should see well over a million Palestinians killed.

The math doesn't reflect that Israel is targeting civilians. If anything it reflects exactly the opposite.
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www.nytimes.com

Estimated Gaza Toll May Have Missed 25,000 Deaths, Study Says

Analysis found that more than 64,000 Palestinians may have been killed by traumatic injury in the first nine months of the war.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
ZenMode said:
Some people prefer subjective measure when forming opinions. I prefer objective measures, over social media videos, when they're available.
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Well, rate of killing is an objective measure.
Congratulations on being the first to treat casualties of military action like a fantasy football stat. I’m sure it will become the gold standard in short order.
 
ZenMode said:
I don't know what video you're referring to, but videos are often edited and cropped with the intent to deceiving or not relaying the full story. We see that happening constantly on social media. It happened yesterday with video from the Hegseth hearing. If you have it, I'd like to see it.

Here's the way I look at it....

Hamas, using fan-powered hang gliders, hand-held guns and knives, killed 1,000 civilians in approximately 8 hours, which would work out to 3,000 over 24 hours - 1 day.

Last I saw, there were an estimated 46,000 Palestinians killed in about 470 days of fighting. That works out to about 100 civilians per day.

IF Israel were truly targeting civilians, using tanks, a full military and legit military weapons/bombs, and given the population density of Gaza of 15k/sq mile, you would think they'd at LEAST be matching the rate of Hamas, right? That would mean there should be at least 470,000 Palestinians killed. If you put the rate of death at 3,000 per 24 hours, we should see well over a million Palestinians killed.

The math doesn't reflect that Israel is targeting civilians. If anything it reflects exactly the opposite.
Click to expand...
Here's a video of a grandmother waving a white flag with her grandson in her arms getting shot by an Israeli sniper.


Here's a video of another guy holding a white flag with his hands up.

apnews.com

A Palestinian is killed while with a group waving a white flag. Israel says it will look into it

Israel’s military said it would review the shooting of a Palestinian man who was killed in the Gaza Strip while waving a white flag.
apnews.com apnews.com

Outside of the video, we have reports from American doctors noting sniper shots of kids And civilians. I'm not sure how anyone can deny it's happening. It's one thing to be dropping a bomb from 20,000 ft and killing a bunch of kids. But looking through a scope and killing a kid which, has happened more than once, terrible.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Here's a video of a grandmother waving a white flag with her grandson in her arms getting shot by an Israeli sniper.


Here's a video of another guy holding a white flag with his hands up.

apnews.com

A Palestinian is killed while with a group waving a white flag. Israel says it will look into it

Israel’s military said it would review the shooting of a Palestinian man who was killed in the Gaza Strip while waving a white flag.
apnews.com apnews.com

Outside of the video, we have reports from American doctors noting sniper shots of kids And civilians. I'm not sure how anyone can deny it's happening. It's one thing to be dropping a bomb from 20,000 ft and killing a bunch of kids. But looking through a scope and killing a kid which, has happened more than once, terrible.
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Some clarification....

I'm not saying that Palestinian civilians are never wrongly targeted. War crimes happen in every war because soldiers are human and humans make mistakes or are just bad. Mistakes happen in every war. IDF killed 3 Israeli hostages who were trying to surrender to them. The IDF has been diligent, from what I've read, in investigating potential war crimes.

That's a much different statement than say "Israel is targeting civilians" which, as the math shows, doesn't appear to be the case.

EDIT: There's also the unfortunate reality that terrorists don't abide by established norms of war and DO use civilians and DO use children in warfare.
 
ZenMode said:
Some clarification....

I'm not saying that Palestinian civilians are never wrongly targeted. War crimes happen in every war because soldiers are human and humans make mistakes or are just bad. Mistakes happen in every war. IDF killed 3 Israeli hostages who were trying to surrender to them. The IDF has been diligent, from what I've read, in investigating potential war crimes.

That's a much different statement than say "Israel is targeting civilians" which, as the math shows, doesn't appear to be the case.
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Did you mean to post this in January 2024?
 
ZenMode said:
Some clarification....

I'm not saying that Palestinian civilians are never wrongly targeted. War crimes happen in every war because soldiers are human and humans make mistakes or are just bad. Mistakes happen in every war. IDF killed 3 Israeli hostages who were trying to surrender to them. The IDF has been diligent, from what I've read, in investigating potential war crimes.

That's a much different statement than say "Israel is targeting civilians" which, as the math shows, doesn't appear to be the case.

EDIT: There's also the unfortunate reality that terrorists don't abide by established norms of war and DO use civilians and DO use children in warfare.
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I think some Israeli forces are purposely targeted civilians while some Israeli leaders look the other way and a few minority on the right wing actively encourage it. I also think that there's a little bit more widespread prevention of distribution and outright destruction of humanitarian supplies which has the effect of killing civilians.

And I do think there are plenty of bombings that might be intended to kill Hamas fighter but if it accidentally kills 40 people who are nearby and fully visible, oh well.
 


Rabin is quite close to some in the Trump administration, too, including having previously written a glowing book about the Abraham Accords.

But no doubt that there needed to be a policy bridge with the new administration to get anything done.
 
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