Israel Hamas War | Trump threatens “hell to pay” if hostages are not released by Jan 20

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RaiGuy said:
You conveniently leave out a lot of what happened. These links can help you:

reliefweb.int

For Palestinians in the West Bank, 2023 was the deadliest year on record - occupied Palestinian territory

News and Press Release in English on occupied Palestinian territory about Health, Protection and Human Rights and more; published on 15 Dec 2023 by MSF
reliefweb.int reliefweb.int

www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org

Countdown to genocide: the year before October 7 - JVP

Ethnic cleansing of Palestinians has always been Israeli policy. Here, we present a brief history of the past year.
www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org
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You have also conveniently left out a lot of what happened.

According to data from the Israel Security Agency (Shin Bet), 128 significant terrorist attacks (i.e., acts of violence that result in Israeli casualties) have been carried out in (or in some cases from) the West Bank since October 7—101 in the northern part of the territory and 27 in the southern part. The vast majority of these were shootings (112), followed by stabbings (6), vehicular attacks (4), explosions (4), and rocket fire (2).
www.washingtoninstitute.org

Why a West Bank Front Has Not Opened So Far

The older generation remains skeptical of what an intifada might achieve, but Israeli crackdowns and worsening economic conditions could still ignite younger Palestinians and undermine PA security cooperation.
www.washingtoninstitute.org www.washingtoninstitute.org
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
You have also conveniently left out a lot of what happened.

According to data from the Israel Security Agency (Shin Bet), 128 significant terrorist attacks (i.e., acts of violence that result in Israeli casualties) have been carried out in (or in some cases from) the West Bank since October 7—101 in the northern part of the territory and 27 in the southern part. The vast majority of these were shootings (112), followed by stabbings (6), vehicular attacks (4), explosions (4), and rocket fire (2).
www.washingtoninstitute.org

Why a West Bank Front Has Not Opened So Far

The older generation remains skeptical of what an intifada might achieve, but Israeli crackdowns and worsening economic conditions could still ignite younger Palestinians and undermine PA security cooperation.
www.washingtoninstitute.org www.washingtoninstitute.org
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huh? we were talking about pre-Oct 7th. Did you even read the article? Also, the last two articles you have posted have been from "biased" authors. Seems hypocritical of you to doubt my story because it was first reported by a "biased" reporter, yet, you proceed to post 2 links from biased reporters.

Your username is making more and more sense with every post lol
 
RaiGuy said:
huh? we were talking about pre-Oct 7th. Did you even read the article? Also, the last two articles you have posted have been from "biased" authors. Seems hypocritical of you to doubt my story because it was first reported by a "biased" reporter, yet, you proceed to post 2 links from biased reporters.

Your username is making more and more sense with every post lol
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In the West Bank, the trend of violent attacks by Israeli settlers against Palestinians, as well as attacks by Palestinian militants against Israelis, had already increased in the first nine months of the year to record levels, and spiked sharply after October 7.

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www.state.gov

The West Bank was already an emerging hotbed prior to 10/7. You may try to frame the violence as one-sided, but even the state department recognizes that it wasn't.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
In the West Bank, the trend of violent attacks by Israeli settlers against Palestinians, as well as attacks by Palestinian militants against Israelis, had already increased in the first nine months of the year to record levels, and spiked sharply after October 7.

Loading…

www.state.gov

The West Bank was already an emerging hotbed prior to 10/7. You may try to frame the violence as one-sided, but even the state department recognizes that it wasn't.
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You're leaving out what is causing it. It wasn't random. Israeli settlers were allowed to attack Palestinians, and the IDF watched silently and in some cases aided the settlers.
It wasn't random. Bezalel Smotrich, one of the top Israeli government officials, called for the village of Huwara (in the West Bank) to be wiped out. You always focus on the rhetoric from Hamas, but ignore when it comes from a government official of the self-proclaimed "only democracy in the Middle East"

What's your defense for that? That is genocidal rhetoric from an Israeli government official, and it is not an isolated incident.
 
RaiGuy said:
You're leaving out what is causing it. It wasn't random. Israeli settlers were allowed to attack Palestinians, and the IDF watched silently and in some cases aided the settlers.
It wasn't random. Bezalel Smotrich, one of the top Israeli government officials, called for the village of Huwara (in the West Bank) to be wiped out. You always focus on the rhetoric from Hamas, but ignore when it comes from a government official of the self-proclaimed "only democracy in the Middle East"

What's your defense for that? That is genocidal rhetoric from an Israeli government official, and it is not an isolated incident.
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Israeli settlers attacked Palestinians. Palestinian terror groups in the West Bank attacked Israeli civilians. The IDF responded against Palestinian terror groups. However, you attempted to frame the issue as the IDF simply bombing the West Bank for no reason. That's not even close to being the case.

Smotrich is an idiot but he is not the same as Sinwar. He is a fringe politician and has been condemned by many Israelis. His positions do not represent the positions of the Israeli government. Hamas, however, as a policy has stated that they want to kill every last Jew and as many Palestinian civilians as possible, and they have acted numerous times on these desires.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Israeli settlers attacked Palestinians. Palestinian terror groups in the West Bank attacked Israeli civilians. The IDF responded against Palestinian terror groups. However, you attempted to frame the issue as the IDF simply bombing the West Bank for no reason. That's not even close to being the case.

Smotrich is an idiot but he is not the same as Sinwar. He is a fringe politician and has been condemned by many Israelis. His positions do not represent the positions of the Israeli government. Hamas, however, as a policy has stated that they want to kill every last Jew and as many Palestinian civilians as possible, and they have acted numerous times on these desires.
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He is not just a fringe politician. He is still the minister of finance. He also isn't the only Israeli official to spew genocidal rhetoric. In fact, most of Netanyahu's cronies have all said similar things and worse. These are elected officials of a state. Not a terrorist group. They are responsible for way for innocent deaths than Sinwar. Actions speak louder than words.

Also, the Palestinians that were killed weren't all from bombings. Many of them were shot during protests. There is so much that you are not aware of or you choose to ignore. You manage to always make Israel the victim in every situation.
 
RaiGuy said:
He is not just a fringe politician. He is still the minister of finance. He also isn't the only Israeli official to spew genocidal rhetoric. In fact, most of Netanyahu's cronies have all said similar things and worse. These are elected officials of a state. Not a terrorist group. They are responsible for way for innocent deaths than Sinwar. Actions speak louder than words.

Also, the Palestinians that were killed weren't all from bombings. Many of them were shot during protests. There is so much that you are not aware of or you choose to ignore. You manage to always make Israel the victim in every situation.
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Israelis and Palestinians are the victims. Mostly of Hamas. You continuously some in here and attempt to gaslight people into believing that everything was fine and Israel just started bombing people for no reason. That's not what happened. While both sides share blame, Hamas is the true evil here. You haven't even condemned them for their stated desire to get as many Palestinian civilians killed as possible.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Israelis and Palestinians are the victims. Mostly of Hamas. You continuously some in here and attempt to gaslight people into believing that everything was fine and Israel just started bombing people for no reason. That's not what happened. While both sides share blame, Hamas is the true evil here. You haven't even condemned them for their stated desire to get as many Palestinian civilians killed as possible.
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Just stop. You're not aware of RaiGuy's postings. He has condemned Hamas many times. It's not his job to keep condemning that organization just to keep you happy.

You are not knowledgeable about this topic. RaiGuy is. He's not gaslighting anyone. Let's put it this way: his posts have convinced me of a few things I didn't believe, and I am a very, very hard person to gaslight because I always insist on looking at primary sources, or secondary sources as close to the situation as possible. Not everything he has posted has checked out for me, but a lot of his posts do. The ones that don't are usually because the claim is indeterminate. In my experience, his posts are rarely false.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Israelis and Palestinians are the victims. Mostly of Hamas. You continuously some in here and attempt to gaslight people into believing that everything was fine and Israel just started bombing people for no reason. That's not what happened. While both sides share blame, Hamas is the true evil here. You haven't even condemned them for their stated desire to get as many Palestinian civilians killed as possible.
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Your schtick is getting old. Hamas, Hamas, Hamas. You deflect the blame from Israel and then keep asking me to condemn Hamas. I don't need to keep doing that. I've already made my position clear and if you have to keep asking, then you clearly aren't comprehending what I am saying.

Again, like last time, we will just agree to disagree.

Israel is the innocent victim here and they were totally peaceful and righteous towards the Palestinians for many years prior to the existence of Hamas. The status quo in Gaza and the West Bank is what we should go back to and it's fine because Palestinians don't care about living.
 
superrific said:
Just stop. You're not aware of RaiGuy's postings. He has condemned Hamas many times. It's not his job to keep condemning that organization just to keep you happy.

You are not knowledgeable about this topic. RaiGuy is. He's not gaslighting anyone. Let's put it this way: his posts have convinced me of a few things I didn't believe, and I am a very, very hard person to gaslight because I always insist on looking at primary sources, or secondary sources as close to the situation as possible. Not everything he has posted has checked out for me, but a lot of his posts do. The ones that don't are usually because the claim is indeterminate. In my experience, his posts are rarely false.
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I am aware of RaiGuy's postings. I followed the thread on the previous ZZLP and as you are aware have been active in this one. I am also aware of your leanings from both threads. RaiGuy has posted several significant falsehoods that I have called out here but that were not called out previously. He has skin in the game so he gets a pass for me. I believe he is well-intentioned but also much more biased towards the Palestinian side, which is not a surprise.
 
nycfan said:
@superrific (and @2ManyBlueCups) — requesting that you step back from personal insults

Also wish there was a way that we could collectively quit demanding that @RaiGuy have to condemn Hamas or others have to condemn deaths of civilians as a predicate to every post.
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My "personal insult" was merely a response to what you are describing in your second sentence. The rebuke was deserved.
 
superrific said:
My "personal insult" was merely a response to what you are describing in your second sentence. The rebuke was deserved.
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It wasn’t. I’ve posted probably a hundred times with RaiGuy in this thread. By my count I asked him about condemning Hamas three times. That doesn’t make me an asshole. It just means that you can’t count.
 
CNN reporting now that IDF claims that someone among the protesters in the West Bank threw rocks at them … so apprently they claim they were justified to fire into the crowd(?)

Other witnesses claim the protest was winding down, then the IDF shot tear gas to disperse the crowd and a few IDF started firing.

The murdered American had just graduated from UW this past Spring.
 
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