Mass Shooting & Gun Violence | Wisconsin school shooting today (4 victims plus shooter dead, more injured)

[EyeballKid]

A couple of problems with these statistics. For starters, “gun violence” is different than a school shooting. The vast majority of gun violence impacting school-age children does not occur at school. The assumption is also made in these statistics that if one person at a school is impacted by gun violence, then everyone is. That’s not particularly realistic. If my high school has 2,000 people in it and some guy I have seen once in my life gets arrested because he shot someone in a gang beer at 2am over the summer, that’s not really going to affect people the same way an event like today would.

Per WaPo, the number is 383k children who “have experienced gun violence *at school* since Columbine.”

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www.washingtonpost.com

This is gun violence at school. Not at a party, not a driveby, not at a football game or family bbq.

Now, of course not every kid is going to react in the same way. Those closer to the shooting or those who witness their peers getting shot are going to have the heaviest trauma.

But in an active-shooter situation at school, every kid is going to be scared and in fear for their lives.

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[Rock]

14 year old male shooter. JFC.

 

[Charlotte1204]

I know school shootings happen at all levels, and two of the deadliest have been at elementary schools (Sandy Hook and Uvalde). But I now have a high-schooler, so hearing about today's tragedy hit differently. In the younger grades, it's typically someone breaking into the school, but for high school, it always seems to be an "Ayden from 2nd period Algebra." situation. Sigh.

So terrible and sad.

 

[ZenMode]

Have details of the weapon used been reported?

 

[Charlotte1204]

14 year old male shooter. JFC.

That's my son's age! A freshman!!

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

Per WaPo, the number is 383k children who “have experienced gun violence *at school* since Columbine.”

Loading…

www.washingtonpost.com

This is gun violence at school. Not at a party, not a driveby, not at a football game or family bbq.

Now, of course not every kid is going to react in the same way. Those closer to the shooting or those who witness their peers getting shot are going to have the heaviest trauma.

But in an active-shooter situation at school, every kid is going to be scared and in fear for their lives.

​

Once again, I think the methodology is questionable here. For example, that source says that 3,600 students were impacted by a shooting at Odessa High School. Google shows that one person was shot in the toe outside the school during a fight. Do we really think that close to 4,000 kids were left traumatized because someone they may have never seen before got shot in the toe? Another instance impacting several thousand students was a road rage shooting in a parking lot that left one person injured. The list is filled with similar instances. Problematic, but not “school shootings” like the one we saw today.

 

[nycfan]

At least 30 injured. That is terrible. Hopefully there won't be any more deaths

Update seems not as bad on the injury front.

 

[nycfan]

“Four people were killed in a shooting at a high school in northern Georgia on Wednesday, the state’s bureau of investigation said, adding that a suspect was alive and in custody.

At least nine other people were hospitalized with injuries, the authorities said, including one who was flown by helicopter to Grady Memorial Hospital in Atlanta, one of the major trauma centers in the region. …”

 

[CarolinaFever]

Once again, I think the methodology is questionable here. For example, that source says that 3,600 students were impacted by a shooting at Odessa High School. Google shows that one person was shot in the toe outside the school during a fight. Do we really think that close to 4,000 kids were left traumatized because someone they may have never seen before got shot in the toe? Another instance impacting several thousand students was a road rage shooting in a parking lot that left one person injured. The list is filled with similar instances. Problematic, but not “school shootings” like the one we saw today.

It's still a problem that shouldn't be one. No one should go to school worrying about this.

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

It's still a problem that shouldn't be one. No one should go to school worrying about this.

I agree, and people shouldn’t go to the ocean and worry about shark attacks. They happen, but they are also sensationalized to make people believe they are far more prevalent than they actually are.

 

[Icky Mettle]

Right.

I would never say that to the parent of a kid killed in a school shooting. I’m not a monster. But I will say it to this board and maybe it will relieve some unnecessary anxiety.

And you have an odd interpretation of the word “realistic”. There are roughly 100,000 schools in America. There are maybe 20 school shootings a year. That means your child has roughly 1 in 5,000 chance of being in a school shooting each year. And of course the chance of actually dying in a school shooting is astronomically low. There are 50 million school students in the US. And roughly 20 school homicides a year. So it is hard to see how that is “realistic” in probability terms.

It’s realistic because it’s something that does happen, and it happens on numerous occasions each year. Dying in a commercial airline crash is a realistic possibility, even though that happens much less than school shootings. Realistic =\= probable or frequent. It just means it’s a real thing that can and does happen. You can’t just brush it off as something that’s just not going to happen. It happens and it will happen again somewhere, and then it will happen again somehwhere else, and so on.

 

[CarolinaFever]

I agree, and people shouldn’t go to the ocean and worry about shark attacks. They happen, but they are also sensationalized to make people believe they are far more prevalent than they actually are.

I think you're missing the point. They still happen too often and kids shouldn't have to worry about it every day they go to school, but they do.

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

I think you're missing the point. They still happen too often and kids shouldn't have to worry about it every day they go to school, but they do.

I agree, but I also think that hyperbolic language that makes the risk seem much larger than it actually is does not help. If 99.999% of kids never worried about being shot at school then they would be completely justified.

 

[CarolinaFever]

I agree, but I also think that hyperbolic language that makes the risk seem much larger than it actually is does not help. If 99.999% of kids never worried about being shot at school then they would be completely justified.

But they do, so your attempt to boil this down to stats is futile.

 

[farce©]

I agree, but I also think that hyperbolic language that makes the risk seem much larger than it actually is does not help. If 99.999% of kids never worried about being shot at school then they would be completely justified.

The same thing applies to being a victim of gun violence in one's day-to-day life but people like you go on and on about 2nd Amendment rights and "defending themselves."

Guns breed gun violence. Stupid motherfuckers breed gun violence. And Lord knows we have an abundance of both in this country.

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

The same thing applies to being a victim of gun violence in one's day-to-day life but people like you go on and on about 2nd Amendment rights and "defending themselves."

Guns breed gun violence. Stupid motherfuckers breed gun violence. And Lord knows we have an abundance of both in this country.

Without trying to derail this thread, the same thing could apply to smoke detectors and seatbelts but I make sure I have and use both just in case of the unlikely event that they are needed. My wife used our firearm in self defense one night while I was away at work. I used seatbelts and airbags when I was involved in a car accident. The smoke alarm goes off whenever I try to cook.There is nothing wrong with responsible gun ownership. There are just way too many stupid motherfuckers, to use your term, who don’t know how to or refuse to behave responsibly.

 

[farce©]

Yet you minimize school shootings with your 99.9% bullshit.

 

[StrangePackage]

Without trying to derail this thread, the same thing could apply to smoke detectors and seatbelts but I make sure I have and use both just in case of the unlikely event that they are needed. My wife used our firearm in self defense one night while I was away at work. I used seatbelts and airbags when I was involved in a car accident. The smoke alarm goes off whenever I try to cook.There is nothing wrong with responsible gun ownership. There are just way too many stupid motherfuckers, to use your term, who don’t know how to or refuse to behave responsibly.

Why should the default be "responsible gun owners"? Why should we assume responsibility when clearly that assumption costs thousands of lives annually?

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

Yet you minimize school shootings with your 99.9% bullshit.

I replied to a very hyperbolic statement about someone saying that they hoped their kids could survive in school without being shot. As did another poster. It is fine to be cognizant of risks without obsessing over them.

 

[akillesheel]

Once again, I think the methodology is questionable here. For example, that source says that 3,600 students were impacted by a shooting at Odessa High School. Google shows that one person was shot in the toe outside the school during a fight. Do we really think that close to 4,000 kids were left traumatized because someone they may have never seen before got shot in the toe? Another instance impacting several thousand students was a road rage shooting in a parking lot that left one person injured. The list is filled with similar instances. Problematic, but not “school shootings” like the one we saw today.

I don't think you're realizing what happens in several of those instances that you're brushing aside as not violent enough to matter. The results are not what leave people traumatized, it's the process. A gunshot is heard and, with no other information, everybody at the school is told there have been gunshots on campus and to lock down in their rooms and take cover. Students know of the possibility they might be killed, so they start texting their parents and friends like they may never see them again. Teachers start having to make decisions about how much to weigh their own self-preservation versus that of their students, which is a responsibility they are neither trained nor paid enough for. Everybody is trying to imagine who of their friends or colleagues or even acquaintances could have been shot or be the shooter. All of that happens even if only a single person, or even nobody, is actually harmed, and it doesn't just go away once the actual facts come out.

My wife has been in the vicinity of two public shootings at night, when I wasn't there, in the past three years: one at her workplace, one at a Nationals game. The shooting at her workplace turned out to be a conflict between two security guards that didn't extend beyond them, and she wasn't close to any of the violence at the stadium. And yet, I still have nightmares sometimes about her calling me in both cases to say there's a shooter nearby and that she wasn't sure what was next.