Overseas Property Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter p5mmr9
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies: 27
  • Views: 269
  • Off-Topic 
p5mmr9

p5mmr9

Exceptional Member
Messages
227
Herein we discuss the overseas property market. "Overseas" being a misused term generally meaning any country outside the USA - and so it will be here. Specifically, if you could buy property in southern Europe - Spain, Italy, France, Greece - etc - where would you buy and why? Also open to discussing the asian markets but my guess is most here have more exposure to Europe.

Some issues I've noticed in my cursory AI infused research:
If you purchase property worth in excess of 500K Euros in Spain you are automatically entitled to Spanish residency.
Purchasing property in France subjects you to some restrictive tax burdens.
Italy can be convoluted regarding purchasing rules and you are not automatically entitled to residency regardless of property value, however there are many rural communities in Italy that are basically giving away property to foreigners in the hopes of re-populating.

Thoughts?
 
If you are interested in Asia -
- Thailand, Malaysia, Korea, and Japan are the only countries in Asia or East Asia that allow "freehold" ownership. Most other countries allow what is called "leasehold" where you purchase a lease for a given time frame (generally 99 years) and these leases can be bought and sold at market rates.
- You can buy leasehold in Indonesia - other options include marrying an Indonesian and starting a company that is 51% Indonesian owned. Bali is beautiful. Indonesia is a special place, but these restrictive policies make it really unattractive as an investment.
- Malaysia is an emerging market and can be quite attractive for value. Kuala Lumpur especially is significantly over developed and builders are selling high floor luxury high rise apartments in the city center for 200-300k for 2-3 bedrooms. It's really quite a bargain - the drawback is you will have a very hard time re-selling any time soon, so if you are buying - prepare for a very long hold.
- Thailand is similarly over developed, however the value isn't as significant as Kuala Lumpur. Phuket is a tourist wasteland. Koh Samui is probably going to be destroyed by White Lotus. Hua Hin is a nice place for old people. Don't go to Pattaya. I went once for all of you. You don't need to go and you certainly don't need to buy property. I can't speak of Chang Mai. I prefer the ocean.
- I know nothing about Japan and Korea. My preference is warm climates although it does look like both will be attractive value options in the future as their demographics become more challenging.
 
I’m thinking about Portugal a little north of Oporto (northwest part of Portugal). It’s a beautiful area; but, it’s on the North Atlantic; so, it’s not warm and sunny like Greece or parts of the Mediterranean and certainly not like the Caribbean. So, it’s less costly than many areas.

My parents are 86 and doing kinda OK for 86 (Dad moreso than Mom). I’ll remain in Chapel Hill until both die.
 
p5mmr9 said:
If you are interested in Asia -
- Thailand, Malaysia, Korea, and Japan are the only countries in Asia or East Asia that allow "freehold" ownership. Most other countries allow what is called "leasehold" where you purchase a lease for a given time frame (generally 99 years) and these leases can be bought and sold at market rates.
- You can buy leasehold in Indonesia - other options include marrying an Indonesian and starting a company that is 51% Indonesian owned. Bali is beautiful. Indonesia is a special place, but these restrictive policies make it really unattractive as an investment.
- Malaysia is an emerging market and can be quite attractive for value. Kuala Lumpur especially is significantly over developed and builders are selling high floor luxury high rise apartments in the city center for 200-300k for 2-3 bedrooms. It's really quite a bargain - the drawback is you will have a very hard time re-selling any time soon, so if you are buying - prepare for a very long hold.
- Thailand is similarly over developed, however the value isn't as significant as Kuala Lumpur. Phuket is a tourist wasteland. Koh Samui is probably going to be destroyed by White Lotus. Hua Hin is a nice place for old people. Don't go to Pattaya. I went once for all of you. You don't need to go and you certainly don't need to buy property. I can't speak of Chang Mai. I prefer the ocean.
- I know nothing about Japan and Korea. My preference is warm climates although it does look like both will be attractive value options in the future as their demographics become more challenging.
Click to expand...
White Lotus didn’t destroy Maui or Sicily and it won’t destroy Koh Samui. Better chance the Euro backpackers will destroy it all on their own.
 
Spain is the way to go. Golden Visa program is the less complicated than Portugal's of Cyprus. Sure, if you want to go $1m you can do it in around 13 months via Malta. But you should act quickly, my golf buddies near Malaga say Spain is getting ready to cut off the program for non-EU types to punish the Orange Turd.
 
Zoo_View said:
I’m thinking about Portugal a little north of Oporto (northwest part of Portugal). It’s a beautiful area; but, it’s on the North Atlantic; so, it’s not warm and sunny like Greece or parts of the Mediterranean and certainly not like the Caribbean. So, it’s less costly than many areas.

My parents are 86 and doing kinda OK for 86 (Dad moreso than Mom). I’ll remain in Chapel Hill until both die.
Click to expand...
Portugal is an option although it sounds like the Thailand of Europe - overrun with tourists and expats.
 
Batt Boy said:
Spain is the way to go. Golden Visa program is the less complicated than Portugal's of Cyprus. Sure, if you want to go $1m you can do it in around 13 months via Malta. But you should act quickly, my golf buddies near Malaga say Spain is getting ready to cut off the program for non-EU types to punish the Orange Turd.
Click to expand...
According to Google - you can get a golden visa in Malta for a 350K Euro property investment (depending on location) plus an additional 100k investment in some fund.
 
Greece and Cyprus may also be an option...although Spain has the benefit of proximity to France and thus French pastries.
 
Be warned if you are looking to buy in Canada, back in 2010 we were required as non-citizens to put down at least 20% on the house. It may be different now, but a lot of provinces post covid actually barred foreign purchases of homes without already being a resident of some sort to deal with a housing crisis. Basically a lot of Americans, and Germans surprisingly, bought Canadian homes cheaply in the first twenty years of the century and rarely used them outside of vacations, helping lead to a shortage.
 
altmin said:
Be warned if you are looking to buy in Canada, back in 2010 we were required as non-citizens to put down at least 20% on the house. It may be different now, but a lot of provinces post covid actually barred foreign purchases of homes without already being a resident of some sort to deal with a housing crisis. Basically a lot of Americans, and Germans surprisingly, bought Canadian homes cheaply in the first twenty years of the century and rarely used them outside of vacations, helping lead to a shortage.
Click to expand...
Noted - most Asian countries require cash sales unless you are purchasing through a corporation and even then it is very difficult to gain local financing without a local partner.
 
Zoo_View said:
I’m thinking about Portugal a little north of Oporto (northwest part of Portugal). It’s a beautiful area; but, it’s on the North Atlantic; so, it’s not warm and sunny like Greece or parts of the Mediterranean and certainly not like the Caribbean. So, it’s less costly than many areas.

My parents are 86 and doing kinda OK for 86 (Dad moreso than Mom). I’ll remain in Chapel Hill until both die.
Click to expand...
@Zoo_View Hit me up on a DM. You are describing the EXACT area where I live (Braga). Been here 7 years last month. If you're not a member of the Braga+ Expat Group on Facebook, get there immediately. Tell the admin (Cindy) that Richard and Joan sent you. A WEALTH of information there from over 5000 members (most not here though, lol).


As to Portugal real estate, the Golden Visa option is gone. Prices have increased significantly in the past 3 years as the end of Covid opened the floodgates of expats discovering the low-cost and improved quality of life here. As to the tourists and expats, yes, there are a lot, especially down south, but more and more are discovering the north of Portugal too. Strong suggestion before buying anywhere in Europe, especially if you are not familiar with the lifestyle and local area, is to rent for at least a year. In the 7 years I have lived in Braga, we have moved 4 times (the first not wanting to, but the other 3 because things weren't fitting our needs. There is a LOT of compromise in European living, especially on space. And even more so than in the US, location is very important. Every block, if you live in town, has its own personality, as do each village and town.
 
Is the golden visa gone or just changed so that you can't use real estate as the qualifying investment? The internet is saying as much and also that processing time is a big issue. Anyway, I assumed Portugal was not an option. And yes I'd absolutely spend a considerable amount of time in an area prior to purchasing anything. Thanks for the tips!
 
p5mmr9 said:
Is the golden visa gone or just changed so that you can't use real estate as the qualifying investment? The internet is saying as much and also that processing time is a big issue. Anyway, I assumed Portugal was not an option. And yes I'd absolutely spend a considerable amount of time in an area prior to purchasing anything. Thanks for the tips!
Click to expand...
 
As I said, the Golden Visa option is gone for Portugal real estate, but I didn't add that it is still available as an investment option into Portuguese companies or infrastructure, or opening a business that employs 10 people. The question was about real estate, so I answered in that vein.

And yes, getting the first-year Visa is a HUGE issue right now. Anything dealing with immigration is a clusterF. They eliminated one branch totally, and then created a new one without training, a working computer system, or other backbone requirements to get it going. I am waiting on an ANSWER currently to replace my Titulo da Residencia right now as I lost it. Been 6 months, and crickets. Nothing available online, no one answers the phone or emails, and if you go to the office, they just show you a sign with the email and phone on it and go about their business.
 
hereiam39 said:
As I said, the Golden Visa option is gone for Portugal real estate, but I didn't add that it is still available as an investment option into Portuguese companies or infrastructure, or opening a business that employs 10 people. The question was about real estate, so I answered in that vein.

And yes, getting the first-year Visa is a HUGE issue right now. Anything dealing with immigration is a clusterF. They eliminated one branch totally, and then created a new one without training, a working computer system, or other backbone requirements to get it going. I am waiting on an ANSWER currently to replace my Titulo da Residencia right now as I lost it. Been 6 months, and crickets. Nothing available online, no one answers the phone or emails, and if you go to the office, they just show you a sign with the email and phone on it and go about their business.
Click to expand...
Does Portugal have a wealth tax like Spain?
 
p5mmr9 said:
If you are interested in Asia -
- Thailand, Malaysia, Korea, and Japan are the only countries in Asia or East Asia that allow "freehold" ownership. Most other countries allow what is called "leasehold" where you purchase a lease for a given time frame (generally 99 years) and these leases can be bought and sold at market rates.
- You can buy leasehold in Indonesia - other options include marrying an Indonesian and starting a company that is 51% Indonesian owned. Bali is beautiful. Indonesia is a special place, but these restrictive policies make it really unattractive as an investment.
- Malaysia is an emerging market and can be quite attractive for value. Kuala Lumpur especially is significantly over developed and builders are selling high floor luxury high rise apartments in the city center for 200-300k for 2-3 bedrooms. It's really quite a bargain - the drawback is you will have a very hard time re-selling any time soon, so if you are buying - prepare for a very long hold.
- Thailand is similarly over developed, however the value isn't as significant as Kuala Lumpur. Phuket is a tourist wasteland. Koh Samui is probably going to be destroyed by White Lotus. Hua Hin is a nice place for old people. Don't go to Pattaya. I went once for all of you. You don't need to go and you certainly don't need to buy property. I can't speak of Chang Mai. I prefer the ocean.
- I know nothing about Japan and Korea. My preference is warm climates although it does look like both will be attractive value options in the future as their demographics become more challenging.
Click to expand...
My understanding with Thailand is that you can only own in a condo/co-op - not a freestanding property. The condo must be 51% Thai owned - yet there are horror stories of them having the foreigners pay a higher proportion of the HOA fees.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top