BlooVooDoo
Esteemed Member
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- 593
It would also likely deter competent candidates (of either party) from even considering a position if they know it’s likely a 4 year gig, 8 at most.
Red Caesar / Project 2025 / Agenda 47 / Oligarchy
- Thread starter nycfan
- Start date
- Replies: 94
- Views: 2K
- Politics
lawtig02
Iconic Member
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- 1,522
I’ve been hoping this might happen. Whatever Trump might say about it, most of his political team has been all in on Project 2025 for years now. He might be able to fool some low information people by running from it now, but doing so is an absolute betrayal of his most loyal operatives. They’ll almost certainly vote for him anyway, but it’s a huge risk for Trump to be depressing enthusiasm among his basiest base at the same time Dem enthusiasm is skyrocketing.
ChapelHillSooner
Distinguished Member
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- 364
I'm not sure I agree with this. I would guess they know that Trump has to win for them to put the plan in place and to get Trump elected he has to denounce much of the plan before the election.
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- 8,637
From the Musk thread and apparently relevant here:
The details on the voter info ploy:
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/02/elo...s.html?__source=sharebar|twitter&par=sharebar
"If a voter in Michigan performs a search on Google, a somewhat shocking ad might pop up.
The ad shows a young man lying in bed late at night when someone else texts him, “Hey you need to vote,” and then sends the man a video of the attempted assassination of former President Donald Trump. The man can hear the gunshots and people screaming in the background.
As Trump is rushed off stage with blood pouring down his face, the man watching the video types in response, “This is out of control. How do I start?”
The ad then displays a website for a group called America PAC.
The website says it will help the viewer register to vote. But once a user clicks “Register to Vote,” the experience he or she will have can be very different, depending on where they live.
If a user lives in a state that is not considered competitive in the presidential election, like California or Wyoming for example, they’ll be prompted to enter their email addresses and ZIP code and then directed quickly to a voter registration page for their state, or back to the original sign-up section.
But for users who enter a ZIP code that indicates they live in a battleground state, like Pennsylvania or Georgia, the process is very different.
Rather than be directed to their state’s voter registration page, they instead are directed to a highly detailed personal information form, prompted to enter their address, cellphone number and age.
If they agree to submit all that, the system still does not steer them to a voter registration page. Instead, it shows them a “thank you” page. ..."
The details on the voter info ploy:
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/02/elo...s.html?__source=sharebar|twitter&par=sharebar
"If a voter in Michigan performs a search on Google, a somewhat shocking ad might pop up.
The ad shows a young man lying in bed late at night when someone else texts him, “Hey you need to vote,” and then sends the man a video of the attempted assassination of former President Donald Trump. The man can hear the gunshots and people screaming in the background.
As Trump is rushed off stage with blood pouring down his face, the man watching the video types in response, “This is out of control. How do I start?”
The ad then displays a website for a group called America PAC.
The website says it will help the viewer register to vote. But once a user clicks “Register to Vote,” the experience he or she will have can be very different, depending on where they live.
If a user lives in a state that is not considered competitive in the presidential election, like California or Wyoming for example, they’ll be prompted to enter their email addresses and ZIP code and then directed quickly to a voter registration page for their state, or back to the original sign-up section.
But for users who enter a ZIP code that indicates they live in a battleground state, like Pennsylvania or Georgia, the process is very different.
Rather than be directed to their state’s voter registration page, they instead are directed to a highly detailed personal information form, prompted to enter their address, cellphone number and age.
If they agree to submit all that, the system still does not steer them to a voter registration page. Instead, it shows them a “thank you” page. ..."
- Messages
- 8,637
Hidden-camera video shows Project 2025 co-author discussing his secret work preparing for a second Trump term
"... Vought, one of the key authors of Project 2025, a right-wing blueprint for a second Trump term, expected the meeting would help his think tank secure a substantial contribution. For nearly two hours, he talked candidly about his behind-the-scenes work to prepare policy for former President Donald Trump, his expansive views on presidential power, his plans to restrict pornography and immigration, and his complaints that the GOP was too focused on “religious liberty” instead of “Christian nation-ism.”
But the men Vought was talking to actually worked for a British journalism nonprofit and were secretly recording him the entire time.
The nonprofit, the Centre for Climate Reporting, published a video of the meeting on Thursday – offering a window into the thinking of one of the top policy minds of the MAGA movement, who’s been floated as a possible White House chief of staff.
Trump has publicly rejected Project 2025 as Vice President Kamala Harris’ campaign has sought to tie him to some of the plan’s most extreme proposals. But in private, Vought said that those disavowals were merely “graduate-level politics.”
Vought said his group, the Center for Renewing America, was secretly drafting hundreds of executive orders, regulations, and memos that would lay the groundwork for rapid action on Trump’s plans if he wins, describing his work as creating “shadow” agencies. He claimed that Trump has “blessed” his organization and “he’s very supportive of what we do.”
“Eighty percent of my time is working on the plans of what’s necessary to take control of these bureaucracies,” Vought said. “And we are working doggedly on that, whether it’s destroying their agencies’ notion of independence … whether that is thinking through how the deportation would work.” ..."
aGDevil2k
Iconic Member
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- 2,478
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Heads Up — A Very Special Thread Crossover Event!
“… Despite failing students, teachers, and schools, [Oklahoma State School Superintendent] Walters has nevertheless tapped the state coffers to pay a Washington, DC-based media firm up to $5,000 a month to project a cartoonish image of a macho Christian culture warrior by writing his op-eds and speeches and booking him for media appearances.
Local investigative journalism hasblown the lid off of his vanity project—which, as it happens, is directly connected to Project 2025. Walters had the state contract with Vought Strategies for his public relations campaign. The president of Vought Strategies (whose name bears an eerie resemblance to the evil corporation in the popular TV show The Boys) is Mary Vought, who’s also VP of Strategic Communications at the Heritage Foundation, which published the Project 2025 handbook.
That’s right. Vought is in charge of the Heritage Foundation’s communications and in charge of Walters’ image and speaking.
This is not a minor coincidence. Walters appears to have bent the rulesand gone out of his way to contract with Vought’s group. Mary Vought previously recognized her husband Russ Vought on the Vought Strategies website (that has since changed, though it’s unclear whether the relationship has changed or simply their public acknowledgement of it). Russ Vought, one of the masterminds behind Project 2025 (he wrote a big part of their playbook), is a self-described Christian nationalist who runs the Center for Renewing America, whose top issues include “Christian nationalism.” Russ also ran the Office of Management and Budget for the Trump administration.
First Liberty Institute, a Christian nationalist legal outfit based in Texas, is among Project 2025’s “advisory partners” and represents Walters in the religious public school case mentioned above. Walters has advocated mandatory “patriotic training” for teachers from Hillsdale College, another Project 2025 advisory partner. Walters appointed a team to completely rewrite Oklahoma’s social studies standards that includes David Barton of Wallbuilders, Dennis Prager of PragerU, and Kevin Roberts, the president of the Heritage Foundation and the man who literally wrote the foreword to the Project 2025 playbook.
This overlap in personnel between Oklahoma and Project 2025 is more striking given Project 2025’s emphasis on personnel, even quoting the axiom “personnel is policy” in the first substantive note in the 900+ page playbook. …”
“… Despite failing students, teachers, and schools, [Oklahoma State School Superintendent] Walters has nevertheless tapped the state coffers to pay a Washington, DC-based media firm up to $5,000 a month to project a cartoonish image of a macho Christian culture warrior by writing his op-eds and speeches and booking him for media appearances.
Local investigative journalism hasblown the lid off of his vanity project—which, as it happens, is directly connected to Project 2025. Walters had the state contract with Vought Strategies for his public relations campaign. The president of Vought Strategies (whose name bears an eerie resemblance to the evil corporation in the popular TV show The Boys) is Mary Vought, who’s also VP of Strategic Communications at the Heritage Foundation, which published the Project 2025 handbook.
That’s right. Vought is in charge of the Heritage Foundation’s communications and in charge of Walters’ image and speaking.
This is not a minor coincidence. Walters appears to have bent the rulesand gone out of his way to contract with Vought’s group. Mary Vought previously recognized her husband Russ Vought on the Vought Strategies website (that has since changed, though it’s unclear whether the relationship has changed or simply their public acknowledgement of it). Russ Vought, one of the masterminds behind Project 2025 (he wrote a big part of their playbook), is a self-described Christian nationalist who runs the Center for Renewing America, whose top issues include “Christian nationalism.” Russ also ran the Office of Management and Budget for the Trump administration.
First Liberty Institute, a Christian nationalist legal outfit based in Texas, is among Project 2025’s “advisory partners” and represents Walters in the religious public school case mentioned above. Walters has advocated mandatory “patriotic training” for teachers from Hillsdale College, another Project 2025 advisory partner. Walters appointed a team to completely rewrite Oklahoma’s social studies standards that includes David Barton of Wallbuilders, Dennis Prager of PragerU, and Kevin Roberts, the president of the Heritage Foundation and the man who literally wrote the foreword to the Project 2025 playbook.
This overlap in personnel between Oklahoma and Project 2025 is more striking given Project 2025’s emphasis on personnel, even quoting the axiom “personnel is policy” in the first substantive note in the 900+ page playbook. …”
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- 195
I think it’s hilarious that trumps response to any mention of project 2025 is to say, “I have nothing to do with it, I haven’t even read it”.
So your response to a document that has raised the ire of so many people and is driving them to push hard to prevent you from getting into office is to NOT READ IT TO AT LEAST UNDERSTAND WHAT IT SAYS????
If you want to separate yourself from it, you will need to very specifically disavow yourself from the document and its specific contents. And yet he refuses to do so.
So your response to a document that has raised the ire of so many people and is driving them to push hard to prevent you from getting into office is to NOT READ IT TO AT LEAST UNDERSTAND WHAT IT SAYS????
If you want to separate yourself from it, you will need to very specifically disavow yourself from the document and its specific contents. And yet he refuses to do so.
- Messages
- 8,637
Is There More to JD Vance’s MAGA Alliance Than Meets the Eye?
The New Right has a blueprint for taking power. JD Vance could be following it.
"... In fact, Vance embodies an archetype that has been theorized about at length in New Right-adjacent books and podcasts (many of which Vance has read and listened to). By forging an alliance between the elite “New Right” and the MAGA masses, Vance, according to this reading, could serve as the leader of a new movement to institute an illiberal and explicitly reactionary political order. Though adopting the rhetoric of conservatism populism, this new order would be a fundamentally elitist one: It would expel America’s current ruling elite in order to replace it with a new, more conservative one, drawn from the ranks of the New Right.
... The details of this plan differ between the various writers and thinkers that have influenced Vance — people like the Notre Dame political theorist Patrick Deneen, the internet philosopher Curtis Yarvin and the Silicon Valley venture capitalist Peter Thiel. But taken together, their prescriptions amount to a kind of three-step plan for the New Right’s project: Identify a member of the New Right elite who can tap into the energies of an ascendant right-wing populist movement, ride those energies to political power, and then carry out a top-down transformation of American society along illiberal lines. It is, in effect, a plan to accomplish through elite rule what even the MAGA movement has failed to accomplish through democratic control: The creation of a social order built around conservative values, even if those values remain broadly unpopular with the American people.
In fact, Vance has articulated his own political strategy in terms that closely echo those found in the pages of the New Right thinkers who have influenced him. ..."
- Messages
- 8,637
(cont'd)
... The crux of Deneen’s book is his plan for the transition from the liberal order to the postliberal order. This “peaceful” transition, Deneen argued, would not happen on its own. It would require the creation of “a new elite” — a “self-conscious aristoi” (or aristocracy) who could enter the halls of government, academia and the media, take them over and repurpose them toward conservative and illiberal ends. While drawn from the upper echelons of society, this new elite would effectively act as class traitors: Having replaced the old, corrupt liberal elite, they would ally with and rule in the interests of the “many,” using their power to foster conservative values like “stability, order [and] continuity.” Deneen calls this political arrangement “aristopopulism” — an alliance between a “genuinely noble elite” (the “aristoi”) and the populist masses, working together to replace secular liberalism with a postliberal system grounded in a “forthright acknowledgment and renewal of the Christian roots of our civilization.”
Vance — whose background and biography make him a living embodiment of Deneen’s “aristopopulist” vision — has not hid his interest in Deneen’s ideas. During a panel discussion at the launch event for Deneen’s book, Vance — appearing alongside Heritage Foundation President Kevin Roberts — identified himself as a member of the “postliberal right,” adding that he “sees his role and his voice” in Congress as “explicitly anti-regime.”
In response to a question from the moderator about how he balances the interests of “the few” and “the many” in practice, he answered like a card-carrying member of Deneen’s new elite: “Things in American society are so tilted toward the ‘few’ that I just focus on the ‘many,’” he said, “and let the rest of it figure itself out.” ..."
... The crux of Deneen’s book is his plan for the transition from the liberal order to the postliberal order. This “peaceful” transition, Deneen argued, would not happen on its own. It would require the creation of “a new elite” — a “self-conscious aristoi” (or aristocracy) who could enter the halls of government, academia and the media, take them over and repurpose them toward conservative and illiberal ends. While drawn from the upper echelons of society, this new elite would effectively act as class traitors: Having replaced the old, corrupt liberal elite, they would ally with and rule in the interests of the “many,” using their power to foster conservative values like “stability, order [and] continuity.” Deneen calls this political arrangement “aristopopulism” — an alliance between a “genuinely noble elite” (the “aristoi”) and the populist masses, working together to replace secular liberalism with a postliberal system grounded in a “forthright acknowledgment and renewal of the Christian roots of our civilization.”
Vance — whose background and biography make him a living embodiment of Deneen’s “aristopopulist” vision — has not hid his interest in Deneen’s ideas. During a panel discussion at the launch event for Deneen’s book, Vance — appearing alongside Heritage Foundation President Kevin Roberts — identified himself as a member of the “postliberal right,” adding that he “sees his role and his voice” in Congress as “explicitly anti-regime.”
In response to a question from the moderator about how he balances the interests of “the few” and “the many” in practice, he answered like a card-carrying member of Deneen’s new elite: “Things in American society are so tilted toward the ‘few’ that I just focus on the ‘many,’” he said, “and let the rest of it figure itself out.” ..."
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- Messages
- 8,637
(cont'd)
"... But unlike traditional conservatives, Yarvin does not advocate for a return to small or limited government. Instead, he argues that America needs a “national CEO, [or] what’s called ‘a dictator’,’’ who could implement a type of centralized American monarchy, run on the model of a Silicon Valley tech start-up. (Yarvin’s model for this style of leadership is, half ironically, FDR, whose presidency he as described as “a personal executive monarchy.”) Yarvin has laid out an extensive (though not always clear) playbook explaining how a democratically elected president could claim monarchical power — a process that would involve a smartphone app to organize voting, reinforced by police forces in red armbands.
Here and elsewhere, Yarvin’s plans diverge sharply from Deneen’s — and neither Deneen nor Vance have endorsed the explicitly monarchic parts of Yarvin’s vision. But they share one essential element: Like Deneen and Vance, Yarvin believes that the transition away from progressive liberal democracy will be led by a self-conscious cadre of conservative elites who gain power through an alliance with the popular masses — yielding, in Yarvin’s vision, to the rule of a single “national CEO.”
... Borrowing from the universe of JRR Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings trilogy, Yarvin describes American society as divided into several classes: “Elves,” (the highly educated ruling class); “hobbits,” (the average middle-class red-state American) and “dwarves, orcs and zombies” (the working- and lower-classes). These groupings, Yarvin has written, describe different roles in society, not races or fixed classes: The elves are the people who run the powerful institutions of politics and culture, while the hobbits just “want to grill and raise kids.” (“These roles tend to be hereditary, but do not need to be,” Yarvin has written.)
The elves are almost uniformly liberal, but Yarvin believes that mixed in among the elves are “dark elves” — reactionary elites like Yarvin who oppose “the regime,” sympathize with the plight of the hobbits and understand democracy for what it really is: a cover for a corrupt oligarchy. The only way to realize a “pro-hobbit” regime, Yarvin argues, is for hobbits to form an alliance with the dark elves to defeat the normal elves, and then to allow the dark elves — and eventually a single dark elf — to rule on their behalf.
... This is, in effect, a more extreme description of Deneen’s “aristopopulism” in dorkier terms."
----
Wait, wait, wait, dark elves? Is he saying the Hobbits should join forces with Orcs so the Orcs can benevolently rule the Hobbits? He is, right?
"... But unlike traditional conservatives, Yarvin does not advocate for a return to small or limited government. Instead, he argues that America needs a “national CEO, [or] what’s called ‘a dictator’,’’ who could implement a type of centralized American monarchy, run on the model of a Silicon Valley tech start-up. (Yarvin’s model for this style of leadership is, half ironically, FDR, whose presidency he as described as “a personal executive monarchy.”) Yarvin has laid out an extensive (though not always clear) playbook explaining how a democratically elected president could claim monarchical power — a process that would involve a smartphone app to organize voting, reinforced by police forces in red armbands.
Here and elsewhere, Yarvin’s plans diverge sharply from Deneen’s — and neither Deneen nor Vance have endorsed the explicitly monarchic parts of Yarvin’s vision. But they share one essential element: Like Deneen and Vance, Yarvin believes that the transition away from progressive liberal democracy will be led by a self-conscious cadre of conservative elites who gain power through an alliance with the popular masses — yielding, in Yarvin’s vision, to the rule of a single “national CEO.”
... Borrowing from the universe of JRR Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings trilogy, Yarvin describes American society as divided into several classes: “Elves,” (the highly educated ruling class); “hobbits,” (the average middle-class red-state American) and “dwarves, orcs and zombies” (the working- and lower-classes). These groupings, Yarvin has written, describe different roles in society, not races or fixed classes: The elves are the people who run the powerful institutions of politics and culture, while the hobbits just “want to grill and raise kids.” (“These roles tend to be hereditary, but do not need to be,” Yarvin has written.)
The elves are almost uniformly liberal, but Yarvin believes that mixed in among the elves are “dark elves” — reactionary elites like Yarvin who oppose “the regime,” sympathize with the plight of the hobbits and understand democracy for what it really is: a cover for a corrupt oligarchy. The only way to realize a “pro-hobbit” regime, Yarvin argues, is for hobbits to form an alliance with the dark elves to defeat the normal elves, and then to allow the dark elves — and eventually a single dark elf — to rule on their behalf.
... This is, in effect, a more extreme description of Deneen’s “aristopopulism” in dorkier terms."
----
Wait, wait, wait, dark elves? Is he saying the Hobbits should join forces with Orcs so the Orcs can benevolently rule the Hobbits? He is, right?
- Messages
- 8,637
(cont'd)
"... On the surface, Deneen, Yarvin and Thiel want different things — a postliberal order grounded in Catholic social teaching; a monarchy styled after a tech startup; a stateless techno-libertarian paradise in which the only rights are property rights. But they are united both by their opposition to liberal democracy and by their fundamental elitism — their shared belief that America is and always will be run by elites, but that it is currently ruled by the wrong type of elite.
Their goal is not to abolish elite rule but to replace America’s current elite with a purportedly different, more conservative one, and they share a blueprint for doing so. Implicitly recognizing that their ideas are not popular enough to win broad-based political support, they advocate for an alliance between reactionary elites and the alienated masses, channeling popular frustration against the democratic order they hope to eventually replace. The “hobbits” are the engine of this transformation, but they are never its leaders.
Forging this alliance, all these thinkers agree, will take time — but the crucial first step is identifying and cultivating a new conservative elite. This new elite must be made up of people who are steeped in elite culture and reactionary ideas but who understand “the people” and can credibly claim to govern on their behalf. They must have one foot in the world of the elite and one foot in the heartland. They must think like elves but be able to talk like hobbits.
In other words, they must look like JD Vance ..."
"... On the surface, Deneen, Yarvin and Thiel want different things — a postliberal order grounded in Catholic social teaching; a monarchy styled after a tech startup; a stateless techno-libertarian paradise in which the only rights are property rights. But they are united both by their opposition to liberal democracy and by their fundamental elitism — their shared belief that America is and always will be run by elites, but that it is currently ruled by the wrong type of elite.
Their goal is not to abolish elite rule but to replace America’s current elite with a purportedly different, more conservative one, and they share a blueprint for doing so. Implicitly recognizing that their ideas are not popular enough to win broad-based political support, they advocate for an alliance between reactionary elites and the alienated masses, channeling popular frustration against the democratic order they hope to eventually replace. The “hobbits” are the engine of this transformation, but they are never its leaders.
Forging this alliance, all these thinkers agree, will take time — but the crucial first step is identifying and cultivating a new conservative elite. This new elite must be made up of people who are steeped in elite culture and reactionary ideas but who understand “the people” and can credibly claim to govern on their behalf. They must have one foot in the world of the elite and one foot in the heartland. They must think like elves but be able to talk like hobbits.
In other words, they must look like JD Vance ..."