Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations” | Witkoff advising Russians how to play Trump

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gtyellowjacket said:
Really I'm not sure they're that effective. Maybe they're effective at upsetting people and maybe they are causing problems to Russia's domestic war manufacturing but they don't seem to all that effective at stopping the war on terms that Ukraine would prefer. Maybe I'm wrong and without the sanctions Putin would be at the Polish border by now but it just doesn't seem like it.
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Just in case there's a little confusion: I was talking about Trump's most recent sanctions that were announced on October 22, 2025, but did not go into effect for 30 days to give everyone time to unwind. So they literally have only just hit.

This whole thread is really about these most recent sanctions in my opinion. Putin is using this latest round of negotiations to give Trump an excuse to remove his newest sanctions. Zelensky is trying to counter to stop that. This is why, I predict Zelensky will go so far as to actually make some concessions so Trump can't remove the sanctions. Therefore, the proof that these sanctions mean something to Ukraine is if Zelensky actually makes concessions to stop their removal. If nothing else they are a nice leverage point in negotiations.

There's plenty of evidence, starting with my link, that these latest sanctions are meaningful.
 
BlueSmoke said:
Just in case there's a little confusion: I was talking about Trump's most recent sanctions that were announced on October 22, 2025, but did not go into effect for 30 days to give everyone time to unwind. So they literally have only just hit.

This whole thread is really about these most recent sanctions in my opinion. Putin is using this latest round of negotiations to give Trump an excuse to remove his newest sanctions. Zelensky is trying to counter to stop that. This is why, I predict Zelensky will go so far as to actually make some concessions so Trump can't remove the sanctions. Therefore, the proof that these sanctions mean something to Ukraine is if Zelensky actually makes concessions to stop their removal. If nothing else they are a nice leverage point in negotiations.

There's plenty of evidence, starting with my link, that these latest sanctions are meaningful.
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I don't know. Maybe. They've been sanctioned for a while but maybe these new sanctions will be different.
 
nycfan said:
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Russian bots on social media helped get Trump elected with a constant stream of misinformation. They wanted him to win because he's inexperienced with and inept at diplomacy, uninformed with history and world affairs, and an agent of chaos. Putin doesn't want peace if it comes with concessions by Russia. He wants victory. He has to be seen as a strong leader. Trump can't see that. He's too easily manipulated by flattery.
 

US demands peace deal before security guarantees for Ukraine​

Secretary of State Marco Rubio told European allies that President Donald Trump will negotiate long-term assurances for Ukraine’s safety later.


“… Rubio mentioned security assurances to Ukraine during negotiations last weekend in Geneva, but did not go into detail and did not reiterate the offer during a call with the British and French, according to another European diplomat, who like others interviewed, was granted anonymity to discuss sensitive deliberations.

The secretary also broadly mentioned several other issues to address after a deal, which the Europeans took to mean Ukrainian territorial integrity and frozen Russian assets, according to the second diplomat.

The White House insisted any final peace plan will have security guarantees.

“The Trump administration has repeatedly affirmed, publicly and privately, that any deal must provide full security guarantees and deterrence for Ukraine,” said spokesperson Anna Kelly. The president’s national security team continues to work with both sides to bring this conflict to a close and deliver a durable, enforceable peace.”

The State Department did not respond to a request for comment…”
 
Russian "negotiations" with St. Donald of Mar-a-Lago: "Do what we tell you or the Kompromat we have on you will be on the front page of every major newspaper in the world tomorrow morning."
 
nycfan said:
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I was thinking the same thing. It really doesn't make sense that it was the Russians and I'm not sure Ukraine or are European allies would have access to it.

My guess is it's bureaucratic shenanigans with possibly someone in the state department that wants the war to keep going. Not because they like seeing dead body's pile up but because they think Ukraine can get a better deal if they hold out and/or Trump will have more pressure to provide them more support. It could also be someone that doesn't like Witkoff or wants his job.

I'm sure it's being investigated and I hope they find out who it was. Leaks are a reality in Washington but leaking voice calls is rare. It feels different. Assuming of course it was a leak from our side.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I was thinking the same thing. It really doesn't make sense that it was the Russians and I'm not sure Ukraine or are European allies would have access to it.

My guess is it's bureaucratic shenanigans with possibly someone in the state department that wants the war to keep going. Not because they like seeing dead body's pile up but because they think Ukraine can get a better deal if they hold out and/or Trump will have more pressure to provide them more support. It could also be someone that doesn't like Witkoff or wants his job.

I'm sure it's being investigated and I hope they find out who it was. Leaks are a reality in Washington but leaking voice calls is rare. It feels different. Assuming of course it was a leak from our side.
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I'm appalled but not surprised to see Trump Republicans grow soft on Putin and Russia. Keep in mind that Xi and China are watching. One of the major reasons I left the GOP. I knew Trump was a racist, supported tariffs and fake protectionism, and was Sta-Puf soft on Putin. Putin must not be rewarded - he is a state-terrorist.

Putin is going to fight on regardless of a "peace" treaty. Both Biden (summer of 2023) and especially Trump have not provided Ukraine the defensive and offensive weapons they needed. The EU has stepped up, but they are going to anyway, and Trump has restricted/threatened their supply of weapons to Ukraine.
 
Duke Mu said:
I'm appalled but not surprised to see Trump Republicans grow soft on Putin and Russia. Keep in mind that Xi and China are watching. One of the major reasons I left the GOP. I knew Trump was a racist, supported tariffs and fake protectionism, and was Sta-Puf soft on Putin. Putin must not be rewarded - he is a state-terrorist.

Putin is going to fight on regardless of a "peace" treaty. Both Biden (summer of 2023) and especially Trump have not provided Ukraine the defensive and offensive weapons they needed. The EU has stepped up, but they are going to anyway, and Trump has restricted/threatened their supply of weapons to Ukraine.
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Easier to stay tough when its some other country's poor slobs that are dying and losing limbs.

Even if the various old men making the decisions don't care about what happens to their population, Ukraine and really Russia need to consider if this is a deal they could live with considering current realities. Ukraine was offered a deal where they wouldn't lose any territory a few years back but turned it down because they were hoping for Crimea. Now they're going to lose a quarter of their country because of that decision. Walk away from this peace plan and it could be better or it could be worse the next time they get close to a peace deal.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Well this war isn't stopping soon. I hope Zelinsky got some backing from his European allies. I doubt Trump is going to give him too much support.
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I am keeping an eye on France. Over the past several months, the French Minister of Health warned about a mass casualty event and then an Army Chief made some remarks about France losing her sons. Now, France has initiated voluntary conscription (which is voluntary until it works then becomes mandatory I would think). All this adds up to me thinking that France is at least anticipating an expanded war and may know a bit more than is letting on. The French would not be saying nor doing these things without good reason.
I get the feeling that NATO leaders got the sense Trump was going to retrench on the Ukraine matter and let NATO handle it.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Easier to stay tough when its some other country's poor slobs that are dying and losing limbs.

Even if the various old men making the decisions don't care about what happens to their population, Ukraine and really Russia need to consider if this is a deal they could live with considering current realities. Ukraine was offered a deal where they wouldn't lose any territory a few years back but turned it down because they were hoping for Crimea. Now they're going to lose a quarter of their country because of that decision. Walk away from this peace plan and it could be better or it could be worse the next time they get close to a peace deal.
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Ukraine was offered a deal........by Russia? A deal that Russia had signed off on during this current phrase of the war (since February 2022)? I don't remember any deal from Russia that didn't involve Ukraine giving up more territory then Russia had taken.
 
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