South Korea President Martial Law Fails | Arrest warrant issued for Yoon

[superrific]

You don’t see how neoliberal economics implicates housing? People’s ability to access and pay for adequate housing directly relates to their perceived economic situation.

As far as I know, the current housing crisis there has been the result of something akin to populism, not neoliberalism. I admittedly do not know all that much about the political economy of Korea, but my Korean students (i.e. mostly lawyers in Korea who came to the US to get an LLM degree) were not neoliberals at all. They were definitely among my most progressive students. That is, of course, a self-selecting population so take it for what it's worth.

Here's an article about it

Why Real Estate is Super Expensive in South Korea | The Lunchbox Theory — SEOULITE TV

Young people trying to get on the property ladder have had their dreams crushed as average apartment prices in Seoul have reached about $1 million dollars. Why are real estate prices in Korea so high? Ironically, government efforts to redistribute property wealth have only made the rich richer. Why?

www.seoulite.tv

And something a bit more scholarly:

Why South Korea’s Housing Market Is So Vulnerable

Rising rates have exposed landlords’ significant interest-rate risk.

www.chicagobooth.edu

I didn't know about the Chonsei system until just reading that article. It's kind of crazy, but I wonder if it isn't a bad system overall -- assuming that the landlords are sophisticated enough to account for interest rate risk

 

[superrific]

I’m in the market right now and my parents are appalled. A doublewide/modular in rural eastern NC, which is mainly what I’m looking at, is usually between 220,000-280,000 right now.

How much of that is just the cost of the construction? I just did a very quick google search and it seems that the bulk of the cost comes from the manufacturing costs. It's a competitive market, so one would think that relatively high cost reflects real expenses, and not mere scarcity or inflationary pressure on houses.

But I can easily quantify how much I know about doublewide modular homes specifically: 0.

 

[Paine]

How much of that is just the cost of the construction? I just did a very quick google search and it seems that the bulk of the cost comes from the manufacturing costs. It's a competitive market, so one would think that relatively high cost reflects real expenses, and not mere scarcity or inflationary pressure on houses.

But I can easily quantify how much I know about doublewide modular homes specifically: 0.

The modular homes that I’m looking at aren’t new.

It would be less of an issue if wage growth kept up with housing price increases. That hasn’t been the case.

 

[rodoheel]

This also seems familiar (from the article): "Voters' top concerns are skyrocketing house prices, stagnant economic growth, and stubborn youth unemployment."

But let's blame it on misogyny because that is a heck of a lot easier to address than the real issues people are worried about.

Yeah man that's why Trump' most successful ad was "Kamala is for they/them, not for us" and why Elon Musk posts nonstop about the "woke mind virus" and why Nancy Mace spit out about a thousand tweets in the space of a week about one transgender woman in the Capitol bathroom and why the current SK president campaigned heavily on eliminating the "Ministry of Gender Equality and Family." Because, you know, everyone is just focused on the real issues like inflation and housing prices.

 

[superrific]

The modular homes that I’m looking at aren’t new.

I will then go back to my second comment above. I won't say I know less about modular homes than any other subject, because there are lots of things that exist and I don't know they exist. I know about modular homes, and indeed even the word we use to refer to them. It's crazy to think that fact alone puts my knowledge of modular homes probably in the top half of knowledge about things. There is so much potential knowledge in the world.

But anyway, other than the existence and the name, I don't know much more than what I've seen in movies or TV, and I haven't even seen much of that so it doesn't matter all that much if they are realistic portrayals. Off the top of my head, I can remember two movies with important action taking place in a mobile/manufactured home: No Country For Old Men and Dancer In The Dark.

I'm going to assume that $200K+ for a non-new modular is pretty high.

 

[Paine]

Yeah man that's why Trump' most successful ad was "Kamala is for they/them, not for us" and why Elon Musk posts nonstop about the "woke mind virus" and why Nancy Mace spit out about a thousand tweets in the space of a week about one transgender woman in the Capitol bathroom and why the current SK president campaigned heavily on eliminating the "Ministry of Gender Equality and Family." Because, you know, everyone is just focused on the real issues like inflation and housing prices.

Rodo, it’s about pointing out enemies.

You rightly point out that my rhetoric in my earlier post isn’t exactly correct.

The Democrats said more than nothing about housing policy, but they failed to name the cause of high housing prices. The Biden administration was actively investigating RealPage for price fixing but we heard nothing from Biden or Harris about this. Why’s that?

People want an enemy. They want someone or something to blame. Trump and the Republicans offered that. If the left leaves a vacuum in the space, conservatives and rightists will fill it with vile stuff.

This is off topic for this thread now, so I’ll leave it here.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

Yeah man that's why Trump' most successful ad was "Kamala is for they/them, not for us" and why Elon Musk posts nonstop about the "woke mind virus" and why Nancy Mace spit out about a thousand tweets in the space of a week about one transgender woman in the Capitol bathroom and why the current SK president campaigned heavily on eliminating the "Ministry of Gender Equality and Family." Because, you know, everyone is just focused on the real issues like inflation and housing prices.

I don't really remember seeing a trump ad. I saw plenty of Harris ads but maybe they were serving them to me because they knew who I was going to vote for and they were just hoping to get me to the polls.

Pain convinced me that Republicans have done a pretty good job pointing to women and minorities as the reason their housing costs are high. He made a good argument.

I do think the Democrats have helped them quite a bit by focusing on things like transgender issues, affirmative action and female achievement. At some point, the best course is not to call someone a racist as much as it is to give them some ideas how they're going to help them get paid more by their employer.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

Yeah. The actual 'price' of housing means nothing without context of employment and wages. My parents were appalled by what I paid for my house and I am appalled by what my kids paid recently for theirs. My parents would be aghast if they knew what my kids paid.

But if most people are making the same crap wage then the housing prices should go down if the supply was there. I think it has to be a supply issue.

 

[Paine]

The one that promises them the most free stuff.

It’s not about “free stuff” dumbass. What you consider to be free stuff is simple government function and the reason the human race invented the concept of government.

 

[superrific]

The Democrats said more than nothing about housing policy, but they failed to name the cause of high housing prices. The Biden administration was actively investigating RealPage for price fixing but we heard nothing from Biden or Harris about this. Why’s that?

Well, presidents aren't supposed to comment on ongoing investigations. It makes prosecution or civil enforcement considerably more difficult down the line.

If Kamala ran on prosecuting RealPage, then prosecuting RealPage would be harder. And I don't think it would move the needle, because people don't know who that is.

Populists' rarely make enemies out of obscure figures or organizations. I mean, they cite obscure people in the conspiracy. But ultimately, populists enemies are "them," "bureaucrats," "corrupt elites," etc. And that's why it's harder for non-populists to compete in this field, since our instinct is to make sure we're not just spouting gobs of bullshit.

 

[superrific]

But if most people are making the same crap wage then the housing prices should go down if the supply was there. I think it has to be a supply issue.

I posted a couple of articles above explaining the issue. I won't vouch for them as objective fact (I can't; I don't know enough) but they seem to be respectable takes.

 

[superrific]

I mean, I knew this would be the response. But it’s just bad politics. If we want to win, we have to name enemies. The toothpaste is way out of the tube on this one.

Be that as it may, if you want to solve the problem, you have to get enforcement to stick, and that is going to be harder if you are out there campaigning on it.

I have no problem naming enemies. My name for them is Trump. But if we're going to go down this route, let's name enemies that people know about or care about. There's a reason why "Hollywood elites" are more reviled than, say, Lehman Brothers. Because most people don't know what or who Lehman is, even though Lehman was way way worse. This is why the phrase "fat cats" exist, but it doesn't pack all that much punch. Not as much as "they."

I'm happy to turn things on their ear. Trump rails against the Deep State. We need to rail against the violent vigilantes he's appointing to the government. People who care only about power.

 

[superrific]

Anyway, martial law is over. I won't say it's the shortest ever, but man it didn't really have any juice.

Rule #1 for declaring martial law: make sure the military is on your side. And not just the very top brass. The folks who have to pull the triggers.

I would expect the president to flee. I would guess Argentina, to hang out with the like-minded Milei.

 

[rodoheel]

Rodo, it’s about pointing out enemies.

You rightly point out that my rhetoric in my earlier post isn’t exactly correct.

The Democrats said more than nothing about housing policy, but they failed to name the cause of high housing prices. The Biden administration was actively investigating RealPage for price fixing but we heard nothing from Biden or Harris about this. Why’s that?

People want an enemy. They want someone or something to blame. Trump and the Republicans offered that. If the left leaves a vacuum in the space, conservatives and rightists will fill it with vile stuff.

This is off topic for this thread now, so I’ll leave it here.

That's all mostly fair, but the problem is there's never a singular "enemy" or cause for any of this. The things that cause inflation and housing price increases and shifts in the work force and so on are complicated, multifaceted, and often out of anyone's control. You're absolutely not wrong that scapegoating is successful, for many reasons - including because people want there to be a simple solution - but that doesn't mean that the counter to Republicans scapegoating immigrants, "welfare queens," etc is just to scapegoat better. If there's any one group who's more responsible for our problems, it's the super-rich, but attempting to direct blame onto them - mostly correctly! - has not been successful.

 

[rodoheel]

I don't really remember seeing a trump ad. I saw plenty of Harris ads but maybe they were serving them to me because they knew who I was going to vote for and they were just hoping to get me to the polls.

Pain convinced me that Republicans have done a pretty good job pointing to women and minorities as the reason their housing costs are high. He made a good argument.

I do think the Democrats have helped them quite a bit by focusing on things like transgender issues, affirmative action and female achievement. At some point, the best course is not to call someone a racist as much as it is to give them some ideas how they're going to help them get paid more by their employer.

I mean I find it hard to believe you never saw a single Trump ad. They were everywhere. Do you not, like, watch any sports or news on TV or anything?

The last paragraph is just completely off-base. it is Republicans, not Democrats, who talk incessantly about "transgender issues." See the aforementioned Nancy Mace example. The Harris campaign barely said one thing about "transgender issues" for months. That whole national conversation is from Republicans who successfully made it into a wedge issue. Hence the "Kamala is for they/them" ad that I saw about a million times in election season and that you could only have avoided seeing if you shut your TV off for several months straight.

 

[Callatoroy]

I mean I find it hard to believe you never saw a single Trump ad. They were everywhere. Do you not, like, watch any sports or news on TV or anything?

The last paragraph is just completely off-base. it is Republicans, not Democrats, who talk incessantly about "transgender issues." See the aforementioned Nancy Mace example. The Harris campaign barely said one thing about "transgender issues" for months. That whole national conversation is from Republicans who successfully made it into a wedge issue. Hence the "Kamala is for they/them" ad that I saw about a million times in election season and that you could only have avoided seeing if you shut your TV off for several months straight.

I agree with you that it was pubs who spoke way more about trans issues during the election. I didn't see many ads either but that is because I live in a solidly red state where they didn't need to spend much money on ads.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

I mean I find it hard to believe you never saw a single Trump ad. They were everywhere. Do you not, like, watch any sports or news on TV or anything?

The last paragraph is just completely off-base. it is Republicans, not Democrats, who talk incessantly about "transgender issues." See the aforementioned Nancy Mace example. The Harris campaign barely said one thing about "transgender issues" for months. That whole national conversation is from Republicans who successfully made it into a wedge issue. Hence the "Kamala is for they/them" ad that I saw about a million times in election season and that you could only have avoided seeing if you shut your TV off for several months straight.

I'm sure I saw one but I just don't remember seeing them. I do remember seeing a number of Harris ads.

And maybe I'm just overweighting this based on the posts I see here but I know plenty Democrats that were talking about transgender, race and misogyny issues as if that were the most important thing in the world to people instead of talking about how they're going to help folks have a better life. Frankly, that seems like a big part of the Democratic platform.

 

[BoonetheAiredale]

I’m in the market right now and my parents are appalled. A doublewide/modular in rural eastern NC, which is mainly what I’m looking at, is usually between 220,000-280,000 right now.

Where exactly are you seeing double wide prices at this level? In rural eastern NC? Does this include multiple acres of land? Most of what I saw was in the $150k to $190k range.

 

[Paine]

Where exactly are you seeing double wide prices at this level? In rural eastern NC? Does this include multiple acres of land? Most of what I saw was in the $150k to $190k range.

Depends on what part of eastern NC you’re looking at. I’m confined to areas closer to Raleigh due to my SO’s job. The prices here are higher than they are further east.

 

[rodoheel]

I'm sure I saw one but I just don't remember seeing them. I do remember seeing a number of Harris ads.

And maybe I'm just overweighting this based on the posts I see here but I know plenty Democrats that were talking about transgender, race and misogyny issues as if that were the most important thing in the world to people instead of talking about how they're going to help folks have a better life. Frankly, that seems like a big part of the Democratic platform.

All I can say is you are woefully underinformed about the Harris campaign and the Democratic platform if you think "trans rights" was anywhere close to an issue they were pushing as part of the campaign. Trying to use this one random message board as an example of what you think Democratic politicians are campaigning on is laughable - and in any event if you look at the "trans issues" thread here you'll see it's basically all about the right-wing politicians and grifters who post non-stop about it.