TikTok Ban in USA

[nycfan]

Thought this might merit moving discussion out of the SCOTUS thread now that SCOTUS paved the way for enforcement of the law, depending on whether Trump chooses to do so.

TikTok goes dark tomorrow. Even its fans seem to be shrugging.

 

[nycfan]

What is No One Misses TikTok?

TikTok’s cultural footprint in America is huge. Why is its potential disappearance being met with a shrug?

www.nytimes.com

What if no one misses TikTok?

“…Sure, there are the people calling themselves “TikTok refugees” and joining Xiaohongshu, a Chinese social media app, as a half-joking protest of the U.S. government’s decision to ban TikTok on national security grounds. (The joke part is: OK, Congress, you want to stop us from using a sketchy Chinese social media app? We’ll download an even sketchier Chinese social media app and use that instead.)

There are the TikTok creators who fear losing their audiences and have been frantically trying to persuade their fans to follow them on Instagram and YouTube, and the e-commerce brands and drop-shippers that are going to have to find other places to sell their stuff.

… But over the next few days, as the TikTok eulogies pour in, notice what you’re not seeing. There have been no #SaveTikTok rallies to speak of. Hordes of angry Zoomers with lip fillers and broccoli haircuts aren’t marching in the streets demanding justice for their favorite short-form video app. Even among the most die-hard TikTok addicts I know, the dominant mood these days is gallows humor, not outrage or sadness. (This week, a popular meme on TikTok has been users jokingly saying goodbye to their Chinese spies.)

Is it really possible that TikTok, an app with roughly 170 million U.S. users — roughly half of Americans — could vanish with this little fanfare? And if it is, what explains why an app that transformed American culture so completely will have so few mourners?

… It’s possible that Americans have been convinced that banning TikTok is the right thing to do — that despite the many vague and dubious justifications offered by members of Congress for banning the app, we’ve calmly and rationally examined ByteDance’s relationship to the Chinese government and concluded that having a political adversary exert control over a dominant media platform inside our borders is an unacceptable risk.

… One possibility is that people simply don’t believe that TikTok will actually go away. It has been more than four years since the Trump administration first tried to ban TikTok, and the ensuing roller-coaster ride made people skeptical that a ban would ever happen. …”

 

[nycfan]

Continued

“… The jockeying in Washington over TikTok’s fate is continuing, and Mr. Trump could decide to save the app once he takes office on Monday. (Shou Chew, TikTok’s chief executive, is expected to attend Mr. Trump’s inauguration, which some are interpreting as a sign of a coming reprieve.)

I’ve argued that TikTok’s biggest wounds have been self-inflicted — snooping on journalists, restricting transparency, obscuring its ties to China — and that it developed a trust deficit with U.S. lawmakers that would be hard to overcome. But I don’t think that’s why most American TikTok users aren’t protesting a ban, either.

… For most people I know, TikTok isn’t a place to connect with other people. It’s a place to waste time, to numb out, to unplug from reality and float in the feed. That passive, dissociative quality, while great for engagement, has also made TikTok feel more replaceable than other, more social networks. If it goes away, we’ll just get our fix somewhere else.

I’m also persuaded by the explanation given in The Atlantic by Hana Kiros, who says TikTok is a victim of its own success. TikTok’s popularity, she argues, has led lots of other social networks to copy its features. Now, users who want to drop into an infinite wormhole of short, entertaining vertical videos can go to Instagram, YouTube, Snapchat or X, all of which have introduced TikTok-style feeds in recent years. And in a world where every app works like TikTok, maybe TikTok itself feels less necessary.

… It’s probably wishful thinking to believe that if the ban takes effect, millions of screen-addicted TikTok users will start reading “Ulysses” and taking long walks in their spare time. But maybe it’s reasonable to see the shrugs surrounding TikTok’s disappearance and wonder if, after years of giving that app our attention, we’re ready to invest it somewhere else.“

 

[farce©]

I posted this on a different thread earlier in the week but I will repost it here since it discusses the reaction of TikTok users to the ban…

There was an article in GQ about this last week, and it explains how TikTokers were freaking out when Trump first proposed this ban in 2020, but in the intervening years, they have spread their content across multiple platforms like Instagram, Reels, and so on. They are far less concerned about losing TikTok.

I realize the politicians hear numbers like 170 million Americans use TikTok and those users will be pissed and vote out those who supported the ban. Among those 170 million are a bunch of people like me who almost never use the app but someone will occasionally send me a link and then I will fall into the TikTok hole for half an hour.

 

[nycfan]

I am not a TikTok user, so curious about thoughts from active users?

I do wonder if there is something about the transitory nature of youth culture (not just now but since it became part of American culture post-WWII) that will means that TikTok doesn’t really have a large dedicated constituency willing to fight for it? I mean, complain about it? Sure. But do anything proactive? Seems not so much.

I suspect TikTOk is shooting itself in the foot by going dark instead of defiantly continuing. But I imagine they have way more insight about it than I do, so perhaps they expect it to gin up more active outrage.

 

[BlooVooDoo]

What is No One Misses TikTok?

TikTok’s cultural footprint in America is huge. Why is its potential disappearance being met with a shrug?

www.nytimes.com

What if no one misses TikTok?

“…Sure, there are the people calling themselves “TikTok refugees” and joining Xiaohongshu, a Chinese social media app, as a half-joking protest of the U.S. government’s decision to ban TikTok on national security grounds. (The joke part is: OK, Congress, you want to stop us from using a sketchy Chinese social media app? We’ll download an even sketchier Chinese social media app and use that instead.)

There are the TikTok creators who fear losing their audiences and have been frantically trying to persuade their fans to follow them on Instagram and YouTube, and the e-commerce brands and drop-shippers that are going to have to find other places to sell their stuff.

… But over the next few days, as the TikTok eulogies pour in, notice what you’re not seeing. There have been no #SaveTikTok rallies to speak of. Hordes of angry Zoomers with lip fillers and broccoli haircuts aren’t marching in the streets demanding justice for their favorite short-form video app. Even among the most die-hard TikTok addicts I know, the dominant mood these days is gallows humor, not outrage or sadness. (This week, a popular meme on TikTok has been users jokingly saying goodbye to their Chinese spies.)

Is it really possible that TikTok, an app with roughly 170 million U.S. users — roughly half of Americans — could vanish with this little fanfare? And if it is, what explains why an app that transformed American culture so completely will have so few mourners?

… It’s possible that Americans have been convinced that banning TikTok is the right thing to do — that despite the many vague and dubious justifications offered by members of Congress for banning the app, we’ve calmly and rationally examined ByteDance’s relationship to the Chinese government and concluded that having a political adversary exert control over a dominant media platform inside our borders is an unacceptable risk.

… One possibility is that people simply don’t believe that TikTok will actually go away. It has been more than four years since the Trump administration first tried to ban TikTok, and the ensuing roller-coaster ride made people skeptical that a ban would ever happen. …”

Given the demographic of most TikTok users and the general lack of civic engagement of that demographic, I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s little action other than bitching on some other social media platform.

 

[Blurb]

People on there are angry. I keep getting videos on how to delete or demonetize all Meta products. The feeling is that the government was super responsive to lobbying from tictok’s competitors. The thinking is that if the government really cared about data privacy and security, they would pass a law applying to all social media companies, not just banning TicTok.

 

[nycfan]

Why is TikTok getting banned? What's behind the law that could shutter the app​

Why is TikTok getting banned? What's behind the law that could shutter the app

U.S. officials have long feared that the widely popular short-form video app could be used as a vehicle for espionage.

www.cbsnews.com

“… The concern is warranted, they said, because Chinese national security laws require organizations to cooperate with intelligence gathering. FBI Director Christopher Wray told House Intelligence Committee members last year that the Chinese government could compromise Americans' devices through the software.

… "Why is it a security threat?" Republican Sen. Josh Hawley of Missouri said Friday. "If you have TikTok on your phone currently, it can track your whereabouts, it can read your text messages, it can track your keystrokes. It has access to your phone records."

If the Chinese government gets its hands on that information, "it's not just a national security threat, it's a personal security threat," Hawley said.

In 2022, TikTok began an initiative known as "Project Texas" to safeguard American users' data on servers in the U.S. and ease lawmakers' fears. The Justice Department said the plan was insufficient because it still allowed some U.S. data to flow to China. …”

 

[nycfan]

“… "I think Congress and the president were concerned that China was accessing information about millions of Americans, tens of millions of Americans, including teenagers, people in their 20s, that they would use that information over time to develop spies, to turn people, to blackmail people, people who a generation from now will be working in the FBI or the CIA or in the State Department," Justice Brett Kavanaugh said. "Is that not a realistic assessment by Congress and the president of the risks here?"

Noel Francisco, who represented TikTok, responded, "I'm not disputing the risks. I'm disputing the means that they have chosen."

Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar asserted that TikTok collects "unprecedented amounts" of personal data that would be "incredibly valuable" to the Chinese government by giving it "a powerful tool for harassment, recruitment and espionage."

"For years, the Chinese government has sought to build detailed profiles about Americans, where we live and work, who our friends and coworkers are what our interests are and what our vices are," she said, citing major data breaches that the U.S. has attributed to China over the last decade, including the hack of the Office of Personnel Management that compromised the personal information of millions of federal employees….”

 

[nycfan]

“… The Supreme Court's unanimous ruling hinged on the first justification: that China, through the app and its parent company, Beijing-based ByteDance, can amass vast amounts of information from American users.

The justices found that Congress did not violate the First Amendment by taking action to address that threat. Congress, it said, "had good reason to single out TikTok for special treatment."

The court refrained from backing the government's interest in stopping China's purported covert manipulation of content, which the Biden administration had cited as a national security justification for the law.

"One man's 'covert content manipulation' is another's 'editorial discretion,'" Gorsuch wrote in an opinion concurring in judgment.

"Journalists, publishers, and speakers of all kinds routinely make less-than-transparent judgments about what stories to tell and how to tell them. Without question, the First Amendment has much to say about the right to make those choices."“

 

[BlooVooDoo]

"One man's 'covert content manipulation' is another's 'editorial discretion,'" Gorsuch wrote in an opinion concurring in judgment.

Indeed

 

[05C40]

I know I should be more upset about this than I am. But I'm not. Was never a subscriber/member/lurker in regard to TicTok. It always felt like it would be borderline creepy for an old man like me sitting around all day looking at videos of teenage girls. Was there actual more to TicTok than teenage girls posting videos of themselves?

 

[nycfan]

I put this in the Trump47 Foreign Policy thread because it could be the key event of his second term, but am putting it here because it made me wonder if this is the deeper reason the U.S. government wants to shut down TikTok — because it’s feeding Chinese AI development as a future weapon against Americans?

https://www.axios.com/2025/01/18/biden-sullivan-ai-race-trump-china?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_source=twitter

“Jake Sullivan — with three days left as White House national security adviser, with wide access to the world's secrets — called us to deliver a chilling, "catastrophic" warning for America and the incoming administration:

• The next few years will determine whether artificial intelligence leads to catastrophe — and whether China or America prevails in the AI arms race.

Why it matters: Sullivan said in our phone interview that unlike previous dramatic technology advancements (atomic weapons, space, the internet), AI development sits outside of government and security clearances, and in the hands of private companies with the power of nation-states.

• Underscoring the gravity of his message, Sullivan spoke with an urgency and directness that were rarely heard during his decade-plus in public life. …”

 

[nycfan]

Meanwhile


(This account is pro-TikTok, pro-CCP & anti-US)

 

[nycfan]

Pretty interesting strategy — we are directing your kids to a more openly hostile site if you won’t let them use our subtly hostile site?

 

[dukeman92]

I suspect TikTOk is shooting itself in the foot by going dark instead of defiantly continuing. But I imagine they have way more insight about it than I do, so perhaps they expect it to gin up more active outrage.

Shooting themselves in the foot would be selling the American portion of their product, which makes up just a fraction of it's users. They do not want Meta or Google to have access to their Algorithm. And rightfully so.

Closing up shop in America will hurt Americans far worse than it will harm ByteDance.

 

[Lando]

Is there anything TikTok users could do that would be even mildly effective? What are they going to do? Protest? Contact their representatives? That stuff doesn’t work.

I see disengagement as far more likely than any fight.

 

[Blurb]

I know I should be more upset about this than I am. But I'm not. Was never a subscriber/member/lurker in regard to TicTok. It always felt like it would be borderline creepy for an old man like me sitting around all day looking at videos of teenage girls. Was there actual more to TicTok than teenage girls posting videos of themselves?

The great thing about TT is that it quickly figured out what you like to watch and then gives you more of it. If you like watching teenage girls it will give you more. There are all sorts of very niche interests that can fill up your feed. For example, I get a ton of retiring abroad content produced by people in their 50s, plus bushcraft, hiking, music from the 2010s, cooking and a little banger tie dye content.

There also whole eras where silly things take off for no apparent reason. There was a sea shanty moment where people would stitch together shanties. I also was partial to the Wes Anderson thing where people made videos in his style.

I think people are going to miss these quirky micro communities.

 

[nycfan]

 

[Callatoroy]

I know I should be more upset about this than I am. But I'm not. Was never a subscriber/member/lurker in regard to TicTok. It always felt like it would be borderline creepy for an old man like me sitting around all day looking at videos of teenage girls. Was there actual more to TicTok than teenage girls posting videos of themselves?

Well yes, but to be honest, the women on tictok were the hottest. I will just have to follow jeff jackson on instagram I guess.