Trump / Musk (other than DOGE)

[superrific]

Seems pretty reasonable.

Where does Bessent stand on tariffs?​

Analysts picked up such signals from Bessent after he made comments comparing tariffs to a loaded gun.

Per a note published earlier this year and seen by The Wall Street Journal, Bessent reportedly wrote that the “tariff gun will always be loaded and on the table but rarely discharged.”

1. He said that before Trump launched onto his love of tariffs and even the word itself. His view has shifted, unsurprisingly. His Fox News op-ed piece published after the election under his own byline is probably a better reflection of his views that a WSJ article reviewing a "note"

2. Having loaded guns on the table is how firefights start. The entire point of GATT and our international trading system is to take the guns off the table. Because nothing good happens when you have loaded guns on a table.

3. What event is sufficient for "discharge"? Such a stupid comment. The US is not a victim of global trade. It is the beneficiary of global trade.

Trump talks about how Europe has a tariff on passenger cars from the United States. That's true. IIRC, it's 10%. Meanwhile, the US has a bigger tariff on light-duty trucks, which I think are about 25%. Ever wonder why there are no light-duty trucks from European manufacturers? That's why. I don't know how crossovers and/or SUVs are treated, but probably not as trucks for purposes of tariffs.

So why are the tariffs organized like that? Because the EU and the US made a deal. US agreed to drop its passenger car tariff while retaining the truck tariff. The EU agreed to drop its truck tariff and reduce its passenger car tariff. I am certain that the numbers were chosen to make this a roughly equal trade in terms of dollar volume, or it was at the time. To clarify: I'm not sure that the dollar value of these specific tariffs were fully offsetting; they were negotiated as part of a huge tariff reduction agreement. The US did not give up money in terms of tariff concessions.

And one result of these tariff policies is that trucks in the US are expensive. There are no Civics around driving down prices.

4. Consider also that the global market is much bigger than the domestic market. Putting tariffs so that American companies (in theory; it doesn't happen in practice) can compete more easily in the domestic market, matched by tariffs abroad to impede competition elsewhere, is a bad trade.

 

[ZenMode]

1. He said that before Trump launched onto his love of tariffs and even the word itself. His view has shifted, unsurprisingly. His Fox News op-ed piece published after the election under his own byline is probably a better reflection of his views that a WSJ article reviewing a "note"

2. Having loaded guns on the table is how firefights start. The entire point of GATT and our international trading system is to take the guns off the table. Because nothing good happens when you have loaded guns on a table.

3. What event is sufficient for "discharge"? Such a stupid comment. The US is not a victim of global trade. It is the beneficiary of global trade.

Trump talks about how Europe has a tariff on passenger cars from the United States. That's true. IIRC, it's 10%. Meanwhile, the US has a bigger tariff on light-duty trucks, which I think are about 25%. Ever wonder why there are no light-duty trucks from European manufacturers? That's why. I don't know how crossovers and/or SUVs are treated, but probably not as trucks for purposes of tariffs.

So why are the tariffs organized like that? Because the EU and the US made a deal. US agreed to drop its passenger car tariff while retaining the truck tariff. The EU agreed to drop its truck tariff and reduce its passenger car tariff. I am certain that the numbers were chosen to make this a roughly equal trade in terms of dollar volume, or it was at the time. To clarify: I'm not sure that the dollar value of these specific tariffs were fully offsetting; they were negotiated as part of a huge tariff reduction agreement. The US did not give up money in terms of tariff concessions.

And one result of these tariff policies is that trucks in the US are expensive. There are no Civics around driving down prices.

4. Consider also that the global market is much bigger than the domestic market. Putting tariffs so that American companies (in theory; it doesn't happen in practice) can compete more easily in the domestic market, matched by tariffs abroad to impede competition elsewhere, is a bad trade.

I'll say this.....

For as much time as people on this site spend obsessing about Trump, it's pretty amazing that you still have no idea how he tends to operate.

Equally amazing is that you will oppose basically anything that he supports and does, while protecting Democrats. I don't doubt for a second that you believe everything that you say. At this point it's just how your mind operates.

Tariffs are a useful tool that gun should be on the table and there is absolutely nothing wrong with letting people know that you are willing to use it. Portraying yourself as weak is the true danger.

 

[lawtig02]

I'll say this.....

For as much time as people on this site spend obsessing about Trump, it's pretty amazing that you still have no idea how he tends to operate.

Equally amazing is that you will oppose basically anything that he supports and does, while protecting Democrats. I don't doubt for a second that you believe everything that you say. At this point it's just how your mind operates.

Tariffs are a useful tool that gun should be on the table and there is absolutely nothing wrong with letting people know that you are willing to use it. Portraying yourself as weak is the true danger.

Have you ever wondered how Trump apologists in the US are able to know when Trump is just bluffing, while simultaneously believing the rest of the world can be manipulated by his machinations?

 

[rodoheel]

I'll say this.....

For as much time as people on this site spend obsessing about Trump, it's pretty amazing that you still have no idea how he tends to operate.

Equally amazing is that you will oppose basically anything that he supports and does, while protecting Democrats. I don't doubt for a second that you believe everything that you say. At this point it's just how your mind operates.

Tariffs are a useful tool that gun should be on the table and there is absolutely nothing wrong with letting people know that you are willing to use it. Portraying yourself as weak is the true danger.

lol chalk another one up in the "Trump is secretly a calculating genius pretending to be a chaotic moron as a strategy" camp

 

[ZenMode]

Have you ever wondered how Trump apologists in the US are able to know when Trump is just bluffing, while simultaneously believing the rest of the world can be manipulated by his machinations?

While it really doesn't matter, Trump apologists are Trump apologists for a reason. They don't think things through,they just blindly apologize. The rest of the world has actual skin in the game that apologists don't...or at least perceive that they don't. They can't afford to hope he's just saying dumb shit.

 

[ZenMode]

lol chalk another one up in the "Trump is secretly a calculating genius pretending to be a chaotic moron as a strategy" camp

Chalk another one up to not even buying the straw man dinner before you force yourself on him.

The next time I say or believe Trump is a genius will be the first.

 

[superrific]

They can't afford to hope he's just saying dumb shit.

Right. That's the problem.

If you think Trump can strongarm other countries into doing his bidding, you are mistaken. He threatened the EU with stuff in 2018; they responded by giving him a deal to buy more US LNG. Problem: EU doesn't have anything to do with LNG purposes. So the US got nothing. Nothing. Trump got duped. Our allies got antagonized for no reason.

 

[rodoheel]

Chalk another one up to not even buying the straw man dinner before you force yourself on him.

The next time I say or believe Trump is a genius will be the first.

Please feel free to enlighten us, then, on what you believe we're missing when it comes to Trump and how he "tends to operate" with respect to his repeated statements about tariffs

 

[superrific]

I'll say this.....

For as much time as people on this site spend obsessing about Trump, it's pretty amazing that you still have no idea how he tends to operate.

Equally amazing is that you will oppose basically anything that he supports and does, while protecting Democrats. I don't doubt for a second that you believe everything that you say. At this point it's just how your mind operates.

Tariffs are a useful tool that gun should be on the table and there is absolutely nothing wrong with letting people know that you are willing to use it. Portraying yourself as weak is the true danger.

1. Step back a little and look at what you've written. Tariffs concern trade. Trade is voluntary. We trade because it improves everyone's welfare, because specialized production is most efficient. It isn't war. It isn't plunder. It is not a zero sum game.

So when you're talking about tariffs as a "gun," you're thinking about it wrong. When you talk about "portraying yourself as weak," you're thinking about it wrong. Tariff negotiations are not about strength. They aren't competitions.

2. In general, US tariffs are bad for the US. In the 1980s, conservative economists used to call for unilateral reductions in tariffs, because they do more harm than good. That was not the policy chosen; rather, the US pursued multilateral tariff reductions. But how are you going to get other countries to give you concessions when your "leverage" is shooting yourself in the foot?

And letting people know that you're willing to use the tariffs puts all discussions on a hostile, aggressive footing. It lets the other countries prepare for their own retaliatory tariffs, which will be considerably more effective because they know what they are doing. Trump just wants to keep out imports. The EU targets important US industries.

3. There's a reason why there is such a powerful overlap between "things that Trump wants to do that no prior presidents have done," and "stupid things to do." In general, when you see Obama, Bush, Clinton and Reagan administrations agreeing on a policy, that's probably because it's a good policy. When no president in history has done what Trump wants to do, that's not a sign of Trump's genius or out-of-the-box thinking. The reason those things weren't done is that they are stupid.

 

[ZenMode]

Right. That's the problem.

If you think Trump can strongarm other countries into doing his bidding, you are mistaken. He threatened the EU with stuff in 2018; they responded by giving him a deal to buy more US LNG. Problem: EU doesn't have anything to do with LNG purposes. So the US got nothing. Nothing. Trump got duped. Our allies got antagonized for no reason.

Are you talking about this deal?

EU-U.S. Joint Statement: Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) imports from the U.S. continue to rise, up by 181%

EU-U.S. Joint Statement: Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) imports from the U.S. continue to rise, up by 181%

ec.europa.eu

 

[altmin]

Why Won't Elon Musk Let Me Follow This Palestinian Journalist?

Musk admitted X is throttling links but this is a new level of weird.

gizmodo.com

Elon Musk, the billionaire propagandist for Donald Trump and owner of X, admitted over the weekend that his social media platform restricts the spread of tweets that share links. But X users are starting to wonder how much more manipulation has been happening behind the scenes in recent weeks. Because one Palestinian journalist in particular appears to be experiencing a major issue with his account. Nobody can follow him for some unknown reason and it looks like many people who were already following him have been purged as followers.


Younis Tirawi has been covering the current war in Gaza ever since it started in late 2023, sending updates about the brutality that’s killed over 44,000 Palestinians and wounded at least 104,000. Tirawi has covered the war crimes being committed by the Israeli military in the occupied territories, which has obviously made him a target for hate among some in the Israeli media.

But something weird happened to Tirawi’s X account over the weekend. It appears his followers have largely been purged and anyone who tries to follow him won’t actually see his updates in their feed. Gizmodo tried multiple times to follow Tirawi’s account and after refreshing the page it was clear we weren’t able to make it stick. No matter what we did, it would always go back to showing we weren’t following him.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

Why Won't Elon Musk Let Me Follow This Palestinian Journalist?

Musk admitted X is throttling links but this is a new level of weird.

gizmodo.com

Elon Musk, the billionaire propagandist for Donald Trump and owner of X, admitted over the weekend that his social media platform restricts the spread of tweets that share links. But X users are starting to wonder how much more manipulation has been happening behind the scenes in recent weeks. Because one Palestinian journalist in particular appears to be experiencing a major issue with his account. Nobody can follow him for some unknown reason and it looks like many people who were already following him have been purged as followers.


Younis Tirawi has been covering the current war in Gaza ever since it started in late 2023, sending updates about the brutality that’s killed over 44,000 Palestinians and wounded at least 104,000. Tirawi has covered the war crimes being committed by the Israeli military in the occupied territories, which has obviously made him a target for hate among some in the Israeli media.

But something weird happened to Tirawi’s X account over the weekend. It appears his followers have largely been purged and anyone who tries to follow him won’t actually see his updates in their feed. Gizmodo tried multiple times to follow Tirawi’s account and after refreshing the page it was clear we weren’t able to make it stick. No matter what we did, it would always go back to showing we weren’t following him.

I think it's at least as likely that Musk cutting 4/5 of his workforce and requiring the people that stayed to work 80-hour weeks is to blame for this incident versus Musk taking an interest in some random Palestinian journalist.

Whether it's nefarious or incompetent, preventing people from following the people they want to follow will simply speed users away from his platform.

 

[StrangePackage]

I think there needs to be a corollary to the general rule of thumb not to attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Sufficiently advanced stupidity as indistinguishable from malice.

 

[Callatoroy]

I think it is interesting reading all the doom and gloom by people who have never, or have limited experience working in the private sector, or have been employed in jobs where policy is driven by theory. A 25% reduction in the fed workforce is certainly very doable. Change is never easy but this should be very doable and DOGE is something everyone should embrace on the whole. This is long, long overdue.

 

[Kingpin]

However, Gorka is a hideous human being.

Yes, as bad as Bolton is, Gorka is much worse

 

[rodoheel]

Musk called remote work "morally wrong"? WTF?

Vivek has never built a fucking business or anything in his life. So it's really fucking maddening to see this guy -- who is basically a computer game villain -- touting the all-time stupidest policies. Hey Vivek, do you think the 25% headcount reduction is going to be dead weight employees, or the best ones, you know, the ones who can get other jobs?

I read a book a while back called "Snakes in Suits" about psychopathic people in the workforce, especially in managerial tiers. Vivek checks every box.

This is not really my specialty, but it seems to me that if Trump ends up actually trying this full "return to work" policy, they may face some legal challenges to that requirement that are based on the assertion that rather than being in the interests of the government it's clearly just a pretext to force people to quit - with the primary evidence being that Musk and Vivek described it exactly that way in advance.

 

[wmheel1287]

I think it is interesting reading all the doom and gloom by people who have never, or have limited experience working in the private sector, or have been employed in jobs where policy is driven by theory. A 25% reduction in the fed workforce is certainly very doable. Change is never easy but this should be very doable and DOGE is something everyone should embrace on the whole. This is long, long overdue.

I think it is interesting that you espouse views like this without one shred of evidence that such a reduction is "doable" without a major disruption of essential services and/or the larger economy. Oh, and I have plenty of experience working in the private sector. Even as someone who owns my own business and beats much larger competitors at their game, I think such a pronouncement without details is a huge pile of horseshit.

And nobody should embrace anything that a madman and a business fraud espouse simply because they say so.

 

[Gmonet]

I think it is interesting reading all the doom and gloom by people who have never, or have limited experience working in the private sector, or have been employed in jobs where policy is driven by theory. A 25% reduction in the fed workforce is certainly very doable. Change is never easy but this should be very doable and DOGE is something everyone should embrace on the whole. This is long, long overdue.

It will never cease to amaze me how ill-informed people are. Long, long overdue? Like this hasn't been done many times before. Hoover Commission, Grace Commission, NPR. The reality is, like any large organization, there are ways to reduce costs. They should be pursued, but won't amount to any huge number (relatively speaking). The reality is, also, that our current debt/deficit has very little to do with 'waste'. It is due to the demand for services by the citizenry and the concurrent unwillingness of the citizenry to pay for them.

 

[superrific]

Are you talking about this deal?

EU-U.S. Joint Statement: Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) imports from the U.S. continue to rise, up by 181%

EU-U.S. Joint Statement: Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) imports from the U.S. continue to rise, up by 181%

ec.europa.eu

I am. And they snookered Trump and fools like you, because that's how much LNG would have been exported to EU anyway. Maybe a few countries bought a little more for a couple of years , but it was basically of zero effect.

 

[aGDevil2k]

I think it is interesting reading all the doom and gloom by people who have never, or have limited experience working in the private sector, or have been employed in jobs where policy is driven by theory. A 25% reduction in the fed workforce is certainly very doable. Change is never easy but this should be very doable and DOGE is something everyone should embrace on the whole. This is long, long overdue.

That unemployment won't have ANY negative economic impact

You ignorant troll