U.S. Budget & OBBB | OCT 1 - Gov’t Shutdown Begins

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Calheel said:
It is 8 democrats who voted yes. All the people running in 2026 will say they supported the shutdown and they were angry at the Republicans and 8 democrats.
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Thats not how the calculus of low information voters works. Rhe overwhelming majority of Americans who vote are low information voters. The folks who Dems need to motivate into voting are even more low info.
 
neither party gives one shit about you. both are controlled by big donors. there is zero diff b/t them at the core but sheep are just too damn dumb and prideful to aaccept it
 
1moretimeagain said:
John Stewart hammered the Dems for 20 minutes on The Daily Show tonight.
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Oh yeah. And this part of his spot-on rant was particularly noteworthy:

"Chuck Schumer, your protestation be not believable. Either all 8 senators who voted to capitulate coincidentally are not up for reelection in 2026, or Chuck Schumer worked behind the scenes to give in to the Republicans while still protecting 'vulnerable Democrats', including himself."
 
this is about nothing more than a typical power grab by both parties with zero concern for all the people they are spose to be representing. again, neither party gives a rats ass about you. all they care about is power and money.
 
wmheel1287 said:
Sounds like you dont know me at all. Im not the person that Dems need to turn out to win. Im an automatic vote.
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Good to know. I just don’t want progressives to check out and punish Dems by not voting against Trump (even if not for Dems). We all need to keep our eyes on the prize-defeat MAGAts everywhere all the time.
 
This is about the messaging going forward. Democrats should talk about how once again the Republicans would not listen to the American people on the shut down. And evolve it into an overall message talking point how Republicans won't listen. Normal voters can't stand not being listened to.

The war is about the mid term elections. Trump in not running but Republicans are. Yep, Dems failed on the shutdown, but they can shift the blame for it to the Republicans.

Example: every time they get asked about the shutdown just admit they failed and the reason for it was because the Republicans would not listen to the American people. And over time the message will grow legs. Making lemonade out of the lemons.
 
I doubt anyone here really likes the cave. I certainly don't. But the more I read about it and listen to smart people talk about it (many of whom are furious and many of whom are not), I'm starting to get comfortable with the logic.

1. It's much easier for those of us who are not having our pay withheld to want the Dems to hold the line at all costs than it is for federal workers, many of whom are Democrats.

2. The travel restrictions are really not tenable heading into Thanksgiving. It may seem petty but from a political perspective, that would have been a disaster for everyone.

3. There's no scenario in which ACA subsidies, even if extended now, would bring down healthcare costs in 2026. It's too late. The cake has been baked. People will suffer, but at this point, there's nothing Dems could do to stop that.

4. Notwithstanding #3, I still think the smart play for everyone, including the Pubs, would have been to take the deal Schumer floated last Friday -- reopen the government in exchange for an extension of ACA subsidies to next September. But it was clear from the first moment the Pubs would never take that deal. Which I think was a really stupid decision on their part, because it means all the healthcare and affordability pain over the next year will fall on them.

5. Dems protected everyone who will be running in 2026, which means the election can be a clean fight between Dems who opposed the Pubs' cuts to healthcare and Pubs who will have to stand by what they did. This will get even worse for Pubs with the vote in December, assuming it happens, which has no chance of passing the House even if it somehow gets past the Senate.

6. This is such a huge gift to the Bernie/AOC/Mamdani wing of the party. They can be justifiably righteously indignant on behalf of suffering Americans nonstop for the next 12 months. The eight cavers may take a blow, but none of them are on the ballot next year. Dems need to let the progressives loose to rail against everyone who is not fighting tooth and nail for ordinary Americans. That will set the right mood for next November.

Dems could absolutely blow this. It won't surprise me if they do. But I'm starting to agree with the Atlantic article above, that if Dems can make the right decisions over the next few weeks, this could be a net positive next November.
 
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The idea that the two parties are the same rings hollow to me. Of course there are cynical political games played on both sides, but that's in part because they have to due to the system they are operating under. The difference in how the two parties would govern and how society would look if each was given complete control couldn't be more different though.
 
Enigma94 said:
The idea that the two parties are the same rings hollow to me. Of course there are cynical political games played on both sides, but that's in part because they have to due to the system they are operating under. The difference in how the two parties would govern and how society would look if each was given complete control couldn't be more different though.
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I think the Democratic Party could stand to be more progressive with their policies overall, but yes there’s no doubt in my mind that we would be much better off overall if they were in charge.

The frustration is that they are consistently an ineffective opposition party. The shutdown capitulation is just another reminder that they don’t really have a competent strategy to push back against Republican bullshit. I also think that a lot of them just don’t care all that much and are fine being complicit with the status quo where republicans play dirty and almost always get their way.
 
OGtruthhurts said:
neither party gives one shit about you. both are controlled by big donors. there is zero diff b/t them at the core but sheep are just too damn dumb and prideful to aaccept it
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This is mostly true. The corporate donors called up Dems in Congress and demanded the shutdown end, because they were being hit and during the holidays the supply chain was going to grind to a halt...and if they wanted the gravy train to continue...

Having said that Trumpers are the most cruel taking health care and food away from the working class and giving that $$ to Billioinaires and Argentina.
 
Peppers49 said:
I think the Democratic Party could stand to be more progressive with their policies overall, but yes there’s no doubt in my mind that we would be much better off overall if they were in charge.

The frustration is that they are consistently an ineffective opposition party. The shutdown capitulation is just another reminder that they don’t really have a competent strategy to push back against Republican bullshit. I also think that a lot of them just don’t care all that much and are fine being complicit with the status quo where republicans play dirty and almost always get their way.
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I think Dems need a movement or a leader who take a page out of Bobby Kennedy Sr. (not Jr.):

1. Tough on crime - law and order

2. Unafraid

3. Can directly connect with working class whites and people of color.

I can't think of a soul out there currently who can fit this mold - but it is the winning combination.
 
korgguy1971 said:
Oh yeah. And this part of his spot-on rant was particularly noteworthy:

"Chuck Schumer, your protestation be not believable. Either all 8 senators who voted to capitulate coincidentally are not up for reelection in 2026, or Chuck Schumer worked behind the scenes to give in to the Republicans while still protecting 'vulnerable Democrats', including himself."
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Schumer and the entire Dem. caucus set this up.

Having said that Trump and Mini Mike are by far the worst of the bad guys here.
 
Peppers49 said:
I think the Democratic Party could stand to be more progressive with their policies overall, but yes there’s no doubt in my mind that we would be much better off overall if they were in charge.

The frustration is that they are consistently an ineffective opposition party. The shutdown capitulation is just another reminder that they don’t really have a competent strategy to push back against Republican bullshit. I also think that a lot of them just don’t care all that much and are fine being complicit with the status quo where republicans play dirty and almost always get their way.
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They need to be more populist and focus on affordability. The People spoke loudly at the polls last week!

Populism doesn't necessarily mean "more progressive." See VA, NJ Gov races.

Trump ran as a fake populist in 2016. Hillary ran as The Queen.
 
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