2024 Presidential Election | ELECTION DAY 2024

[Kingpin]

Agree. The enthusiasm for the campaign was great. Probably the best since 2008. There are a million lessons to be learned from this campaign, but as it relates to this particular issue --

1. You never want to be stepping in at 11:30pm for an unpopular incumbent who has just embarrassed himself on global TV.

2. And you REALLY don't want to be doing that if you were in his administration.

3. Traditional ground games are irrelevant. Nobody is motivated by someone knocking on their door. It's all about social media and controlling the broader media narrative.

4. There is no such thing as too much communication. Volume (in the sense of both amount and loudness) is WAY more important than substance. If you say a million things a day, you get attention, but nobody has time to focus on the stupid things you said amidst the rest of it. If you're not saying something that gets noticed at least once every hour, you're falling way behind.

5. Going high only works if you use it as a contrast to how abso-fucking-lutely low your opponent is.

And I learned don’t be woman, especially one of color. America is alarmingly misogynistic. Andy Basher would have beaten Trump. A white man without the Biden Admim baggage (inflation, immigration).

 

[superrific]

Agree. The enthusiasm for the campaign was great. Probably the best since 2008. There are a million lessons to be learned from this campaign, but as it relates to this particular issue --

1. You never want to be stepping in at 11:30pm for an unpopular incumbent who has just embarrassed himself on global TV.

2. And you REALLY don't want to be doing that if you were in his administration.

3. Traditional ground games are irrelevant. Nobody is motivated by someone knocking on their door. It's all about social media and controlling the broader media narrative.

4. There is no such thing as too much communication. Volume (in the sense of both amount and loudness) is WAY more important than substance. If you say a million things a day, you get attention, but nobody has time to focus on the stupid things you said amidst the rest of it. If you're not saying something that gets noticed at least once every hour, you're falling way behind.

5. Going high only works if you use it as a contrast to how abso-fucking-lutely low your opponent is.

#4 is the main takeaway, in my view. Others have been saying that. Attention is the scarcest commodity.

Problem is that Dems are by nature and temperament unable to flood the zone like right-wingers. So we will need a different strategy.

We need more stunts, apparently.

 

[lawtig02]

#4 is the main takeaway, in my view. Others have been saying that. Attention is the scarcest commodity.

Problem is that Dems are by nature and temperament unable to flood the zone like right-wingers. So we will need a different strategy.

We need more stunts, apparently.

What we need is an information distribution system like the right wing has developed. But I'm not sure that's possible, as the Dem base is far less credulous than the Pub base.

 

[tallheel95]

Agree. When Kamala was at her best -- in the first few days after she took over and in the debate -- she was REALLY good. In hindsight, her campaign strategy was deeply flawed. A candidate starting the 400m with a 20 second handicap can't afford ANY flaws, much less the major ones that plagued her campaign. But Kamala herself is a good person and a reasonably good politician, and she does not deserve to be shat upon by once-rans in the Democratic Party. She won't be a viable contender for president in the future, but she can be an important contributor to the future of the party.

Perception is reality, you know? I didn't like the way the Carville slammed her, but I will agree on this... one of my issues with Kamala as a candidate was that she wasn't always verbally fluent in unscripted situations. That isn't to say she isn't smart, because she is. But she has a weakness in off-the-cuff communication skills and she knows it, so once the campaign got going she relied heavily on stock phrases ("turn the page," etc) that started sounding canned and trite after you heard it the third time. Which imo led to the perception that she wasn't very capable or confident. Add in the right-wing smear campaign on her laugh and her IQ and you're not winning over a lot of voters. Then she didn't really have time or frankly the inclination to get in front of people (ie Rogan) to dispel the myths. They were able to frame *her* as the unserious candidate with no platform other than a continuation of Biden's unpopular policies. And frankly her campaign didn't do a great job of communicating about new policies, and instead relied on Trump as a fascist boogeyman... when most Americans couldn't even begin to define the word fascism.

 

[lawtig02]

Perception is reality, you know? I didn't like the way the Carville slammed her, but I will agree on this... one of my issues with Kamala as a candidate was that she wasn't always verbally fluent in unscripted situations. That isn't to say she isn't smart, because she is. But she has a weakness in off-the-cuff communication skills and she knows it, so once the campaign got going she relied heavily on stock phrases ("turn the page," etc) that started sounding canned and trite after you heard it the third time. Which imo led to the perception that she wasn't very capable or confident. Add in the right-wing smear campaign on her laugh and her IQ and you're not winning over a lot of voters. Then she didn't really have time or frankly the inclination to get in front of people (ie Rogan) to dispel the myths. They were able to frame *her* as the unserious candidate with no platform other than a continuation of Biden's unpopular policies. And frankly her campaign didn't do a great job of communicating about new policies, and instead relied on Trump as a fascist boogeyman... when most Americans couldn't even begin to define the word fascism.

I would be more convinced her lack of precision in unscripted moments was a liability if Donald Fucking Trump hadn't just defeated her. I completely agree her campaign was not adequate. Probably a 5 out of 10, when she needed a 9 to win. But after electing Donald Fucking Trump twice in eight years, I don't think Americans give a crap about how one sounds in unscripted moments. It's all about volume. And appealing to the lizard brain. Which, in presidential elections, is usually about (1) the price of groceries, and (2) the skin color of those one encounters at said grocery store.

 

[WaynetheDrain]

Publicly maybe...

You’re so easily duped.

Bad Hombre is a right wing provocateur. He’s not the least bit trustworthy.

And, btw, directly after the election, Carville came out and admitted he was dead wrong about his belief that Kamala would win big. He said, “As it turns out, it really is about the economy, stupid.”

If he was saying something else in private, he wouldn’t have any reason to admit he was wrong when what he was saying in private was actually right.

Use your brain.

 

[UNCMSinLS]

Perception is reality, you know? I didn't like the way the Carville slammed her, but I will agree on this... one of my issues with Kamala as a candidate was that she wasn't always verbally fluent in unscripted situations. That isn't to say she isn't smart, because she is. But she has a weakness in off-the-cuff communication skills and she knows it, so once the campaign got going she relied heavily on stock phrases ("turn the page," etc) that started sounding canned and trite after you heard it the third time. Which imo led to the perception that she wasn't very capable or confident. Add in the right-wing smear campaign on her laugh and her IQ and you're not winning over a lot of voters. Then she didn't really have time or frankly the inclination to get in front of people (ie Rogan) to dispel the myths. They were able to frame *her* as the unserious candidate with no platform other than a continuation of Biden's unpopular policies. And frankly her campaign didn't do a great job of communicating about new policies, and instead relied on Trump as a fascist boogeyman... when most Americans couldn't even begin to define the word fascism.

I have highlighted the most important words that contributed to Ms. Harris' loss. And let's not forget the correct pronunciation of her name, take your pick, "ka- MAL-la" or "ka-MA-blah".

 

[tallheel95]

I have highlighted the most important words that contributed to Ms. Harris' loss. And let's not forget the correct pronunciation of her name, take your pick, "ka- MAL-la" or "ka-MA-blah".

Look, I don't disagree at all. I'm a woman, I get it. And that is part of the problem... you have to be twice as good, with virtually no weaknesses, and that wasn't the case.

 

[UNCMSinLS]

Look, I don't disagree at all. I'm a woman, I get it. And that is part of the problem... you have to be twice as good, with virtually no weaknesses, and that wasn't the case.

No sane person can argue that Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris wouldn't have been better presidents than Trump. Hell, I would be a better president than Trump. YOU would be a better president than Trump. Almost any random person on the street would be a better president than Trump.

The problem with the Trump elections was not anyone running against him. It was the people who voted for him or chose to "sit it out".

 

[Mulberry Heel]

Agree. The enthusiasm for the campaign was great. Probably the best since 2008. There are a million lessons to be learned from this campaign, but as it relates to this particular issue --

1. You never want to be stepping in at 11:30pm for an unpopular incumbent who has just embarrassed himself on global TV.

2. And you REALLY don't want to be doing that if you were in his administration.

3. Traditional ground games are irrelevant. Nobody is motivated by someone knocking on their door. It's all about social media and controlling the broader media narrative.

4. There is no such thing as too much communication. Volume (in the sense of both amount and loudness) is WAY more important than substance. If you say a million things a day, you get attention, but nobody has time to focus on the stupid things you said amidst the rest of it. If you're not saying something that gets noticed at least once every hour, you're falling way behind.

5. Going high only works if you use it as a contrast to how abso-fucking-lutely low your opponent is.

#3 is the one that scares me the most. I don't know how Democrats can control the campaign narrative when so much of our news and social media (including legacy media) is now owned by right-wingers or bosiding brown-nosers like Bezos and the NY Times. Hell, it's going to be hard to just get their narrative out there, much less have it be the dominant one. The last Democrat who was really able to dominate the media narrative was Obama in 2008 and 2012, and by 2028 that will have been sixteen years in the past. The Democrats really need to get some younger types into their PR positions who understand the new social media world we're living in and know how to play the game.

 

[tallheel95]

No sane person can argue that Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris wouldn't have been better presidents than Trump. Hell, I would be a better president than Trump. YOU would be a better president than Trump. Almost any random person on the street would be a better president than Trump.

The problem with the Trump elections was not anyone running against him. It was the people who voted for him or chose to "sit it out".

But see, that's why I circle back to wishing we had a primary. Because voters may have chosen a different candidate, and we might not be having this argument at all.

Think about Obama. No one thought at the time that America was ready to elect a black man as president. But thankfully we did. Why? He didn't exactly have a lengthy resume that would make him the most qualified person for the presidency. I'd argue it was because he's smart and competent, but also he's an *extremely* gifted orator. He has charm, charisma and confidence, and people gravitate towards that. Confidence and verbal skills are why Pete B. is currently so loved by the Democrats. Like him or not (and I decidedly do not), DJT also has that confidence. Perception... it's all about perception.

 

[ZenMode]

You’re so easily duped.

Bad Hombre is a right wing provocateur. He’s not the least bit trustworthy.

And, btw, directly after the election, Carville came out and admitted he was dead wrong about his belief that Kamala would win big. He said, “As it turns out, it really is about the economy, stupid.”

If he was saying something else in private, he wouldn’t have any reason to admit he was wrong when what he was saying in private was actually right.

Use your brain.

It was a very specific and accurate prediction, if it's being wrongly attributed to Carville.

 

[WaynetheDrain]

It was a very specific and accurate prediction, if it's being wrongly attributed to Carville.

Twitter/X will continue to thrive as long as people like you exist.

 

[UNCMSinLS]

But see, that's why I circle back to wishing we had a primary. Because voters may have chosen a different candidate, and we might not be having this argument at all.

Think about Obama. No one thought at the time that America was ready to elect a black man as president. But thankfully we did. Why? He didn't exactly have a lengthy resume that would make him the most qualified person for the presidency. I'd argue it was because he's smart and competent, but also he's an *extremely* gifted orator. He has charm, charisma and confidence, and people gravitate towards that. Confidence and verbal skills are why Pete B. is currently so loved by the Democrats. Like him or not (and I decidedly do not), DJT also has that confidence. Perception... it's all about perception.

No Democrat with enough name recognition and financial backing could have won this election after a mini-primary held AFTER July 21. Not one. Harris was the best choice under the circumstances. She wasn't Obama but she wasn't bad. Take a look at her rallies and her debate performance. Harris had two major problems - 1) she is a woman and 2) she is black. The price of eggs and Biden (yet another person who would have been a better president than Trump) were all bullshit and a cover for the virulent racism and misogyny in this country.

It's easy to throw Harris (and Biden) under the bus. It's a lot harder for this country to look in the mirror and contemplate the grotesque, evil visage glaring back.

 

[TullyHeel]

No Democrat with enough name recognition and financial backing could have won this election after a mini-primary held AFTER July 21. Not one. Harris was the best choice under the circumstances. She wasn't Obama but she wasn't bad. Take a look at her rallies and her debate performance. Harris had two major problems - 1) she is a woman and 2) she is black. The price of eggs and Biden (yet another person who would have been a better president than Trump) were all bullshit and a cover for the virulent racism and misogyny in this country.

It's easy to throw Harris (and Biden) under the bus. It's a lot harder for this country to look in the mirror and contemplate the grotesque, evil visage glaring back.

This. Anyone the Dems would have had would have been better than Trump. We're already seeing that a few weeks into his presidency. Anyone who really believed Trump would make the economy better is a fool. All the economists said his policies would be a disaster for the economy. So, if it's really about the economy then those who are worried about it so much should have voted for Harris if they had any sense at all. In other words, all of that is bullshit. There is no reason anyone should vote for a PERSON like Trump as President in the first place. I don't care what his policies are. A person like him should never even be considered for President by people who have any morals at all. Anyone who voted for him either is an idiot or they do not have a good heart when it comes down to it. No matter how nice they may seem to others, if you're not just an idiot, then you can't have a good heart and vote for someone like Trump. It's all about straight, white Christian nationalists wanting all the power because they are ignorant and scared after Obama was elected and the LGBTQ community started getting equal rights and respected as humans. They can't handle anything outside of the bubble they live in and will destroy the country because of it.

 

[tallheel95]

Sorry, not to continue beating a dead horse and ... I agree with so much of what you are all saying. Just wanted the record to reflect that I was referring to a traditional primary, in which Biden had not decided to run for re-election to begin with. Also wanted to note that I did like Harris and think she had the capacity to be a very good president. I'm very sad that so many of our fellow citizens did not feel the same.

 

[MOUNTAINH33L]

It's all about straight, white Christian nationalists wanting all the power because they are ignorant and scared after Obama was elected and the LGBTQ community started getting equal rights and respected as humans. They can't handle anything outside of the bubble they live in and will destroy the country because of it.

Those 8 years of Obama really did a number on 'em.

 

[TullyHeel]

Those 8 years of Obama really did a number on 'em.

They lost their minds. They would rather burn it all down than to want to deal with anything outside the bubble they want to live in.

 

[ZenMode]