9/11/2001

[rodoheel]

Two thoughts.....

1. I'm sure you'd agree that an entire government department wasn't needed to outlaw box cutters on airplanes
2. The fact that multiple planes, (with the exception of one) with grown men as passengers, ever allowed terrorists to take over a plane with ONLY box cutters is something that is not only embarrassing, but will is unlikely to happen again even if box cutters were still permitted onboard.

lol, it sounds like Mark "it wouldn't have gone that way if I was there" Wahlberg has entered the chat. I mean I guess if your move is to criticize all the passengers on those planes as cowards, then that's your right.

But really this whole framing just strikes me as very dishonest. Box cutters are not the only threats to plane security. The lesson to take from 9/11 wasn't just "next time we'll be ready for box cutters" it was "planes are much more vulnerable and dangerous targets than we ever considered before." So the idea that all TSA does, or is needed for, is keeping box cutters off of planes is silly. One might note that there has not been a commercial airline crash in the United States since 2009, and hardly even any fatal accidents during that time (I can think of only one - that unfortunate person who was partially sucked out of a plane). I think it's pretty clear that heightened airport security, along with airline industry regulations, have done a good job keeping air travel safe in the last two decades. You're basically acting like someone who has been standing under an umbrella for 20 years and says "I haven't gotten wet in 20 years so I don't think I need this umbrella any more." At least for me personally, it's gonna take a lot more than "TSA makes me wait an extra half hour in line sometimes" to convince me that it's a bad thing.

 

[rodoheel]

BTW I just looked it up and looks like TSA's current budget is about $11 billion per year. Not very significant in the grand scheme of the federal government's budget, and if you think we could provide private airport security at every commercial airport in the country for a fraction of that cost (not to mention the loss of public oversight/accountability) I think you're overly optimistic.

 

[nycfan]

 

[nycfan]

Please read all of this. We know it but has a real impact reading it all at once.



“Todd: Hello. Operator. Listen to me -- I can’t speak very loud. This is an emergency. I’m a passenger on a United flight to San Francisco. We have a situation here. Our plane has been hijacked. Can you understand me?

Lisa: (exhaling a deep breath to herself) I understand. Can the hijackers see you talking on the phone?

Todd: No.

Lisa: Can you tell me how many hijackers are on the plane?

Todd: There are three that we know of.Lisa: Can you see any weapons? What kind of weapons do they have?

Todd: Yes. They don’t have guns. They have knives – they took over the plane with knives.

Lisa: Do you mean -- like steak knives?Todd: No, these are razor knives -- like box cutters.

Lisa: Can you tell what country these people are from?

Todd: No -- I don’t know. They sound like they’re from the mid-east.

Lisa: Have they said what they want?

Todd: Someone announced from the cockpit that there was a bomb on board. He said he was the captain and to stay in our seats and stay quiet. He said that they were meeting these men’s demands and returning to the airport. It was very broken English, and...I’m telling you...it sounded fake!

Lisa: Ok sir, please give me your name.

Todd: My name is Todd Beamer.

Lisa: Ok Todd, my name is Lisa. Do you know your flight number? If you can’t remember, it’s on your ticket.

Todd: It’s United Flight 93.

Lisa: Now Todd, can you try to tell me exactly what happened?

Todd: Two of the hijackers were sitting in first class near the cockpit. A third one was sitting near the back of the coach section. The two up front got into the cockpit somehow; there was shouting. The third hijacker said he had a bomb. It looks like a bomb. He’s got it tied to his waist with a red belt of some kind.

Lisa: So is the door to the cockpit open?

Todd: No, the hijackers shut it behind them.

Lisa: Has anyone been injured?

Todd: Yes, they…they killed one passenger sitting in first class. There’s been lots of shouting. We don’t know if the pilots are dead or alive. A flight attendant told me that the pilot and copilot had been forced from the cockpit and may have been wounded.Lisa: Where is the 3rd hijacker now Todd?

Todd: He’s near the back of the plane. They forced most of the passengers into first class. There are fourteen of us here in the back. Five are flight attendants. He hasn’t noticed that I slipped into this pantry to get the phone. The guy with the bomb ordered us to sit on the floor in the rear of the plane...oh Jesus...HELP!

Lisa: Todd, are you ok? Tell me what’s happening!

Todd: Hello. We’re going down. I think we’re going to crash. Wait – wait a minute. No, we’re leveling off...we’re ok. I think we may be turning around. That’s it – we changed directions. Do you hear me? We’re flying east again.

Lisa: Ok Todd, what’s going on with the other passengers?

Todd: Everyone is really scared. A few passengers with cell phones have made calls to relatives. A guy, Jeremy, was talking to his wife just before the hijacking started. She told him that hijackers had crashed two planes into the World Trade Center. Lisa is that true??

Lisa: Todd, I have to tell you the truth. It’s very bad. The World Trade Center is gone. Both of the towers have been destroyed.

Todd: Oh God -- help us!

Lisa: A third plane was taken over by terrorists. It crashed into the Pentagon in Washington DC. Our country is under attack, and I’m afraid that your plane may be part of their plan.

Todd: Oh dear God. Dear God... Lisa, will you do something for me?

Lisa: I’ll try if I can. Yes.

Todd: I want you to call my wife and my kids for me and tell them what’s happened. Promise me you’ll call..

Lisa: I promise – I’ll call.”

 

[Icky Mettle]

Please read all of this. We know it but has a real impact reading it all at once.



“Todd: Hello. Operator. Listen to me -- I can’t speak very loud. This is an emergency. I’m a passenger on a United flight to San Francisco. We have a situation here. Our plane has been hijacked. Can you understand me?

Lisa: (exhaling a deep breath to herself) I understand. Can the hijackers see you talking on the phone?

Todd: No.

Lisa: Can you tell me how many hijackers are on the plane?

Todd: There are three that we know of.Lisa: Can you see any weapons? What kind of weapons do they have?

Todd: Yes. They don’t have guns. They have knives – they took over the plane with knives.

Lisa: Do you mean -- like steak knives?Todd: No, these are razor knives -- like box cutters.

Lisa: Can you tell what country these people are from?

Todd: No -- I don’t know. They sound like they’re from the mid-east.

Lisa: Have they said what they want?

Todd: Someone announced from the cockpit that there was a bomb on board. He said he was the captain and to stay in our seats and stay quiet. He said that they were meeting these men’s demands and returning to the airport. It was very broken English, and...I’m telling you...it sounded fake!

Lisa: Ok sir, please give me your name.

Todd: My name is Todd Beamer.

Lisa: Ok Todd, my name is Lisa. Do you know your flight number? If you can’t remember, it’s on your ticket.

Todd: It’s United Flight 93.

Lisa: Now Todd, can you try to tell me exactly what happened?

Todd: Two of the hijackers were sitting in first class near the cockpit. A third one was sitting near the back of the coach section. The two up front got into the cockpit somehow; there was shouting. The third hijacker said he had a bomb. It looks like a bomb. He’s got it tied to his waist with a red belt of some kind.

Lisa: So is the door to the cockpit open?

Todd: No, the hijackers shut it behind them.

Lisa: Has anyone been injured?

Todd: Yes, they…they killed one passenger sitting in first class. There’s been lots of shouting. We don’t know if the pilots are dead or alive. A flight attendant told me that the pilot and copilot had been forced from the cockpit and may have been wounded.Lisa: Where is the 3rd hijacker now Todd?

Todd: He’s near the back of the plane. They forced most of the passengers into first class. There are fourteen of us here in the back. Five are flight attendants. He hasn’t noticed that I slipped into this pantry to get the phone. The guy with the bomb ordered us to sit on the floor in the rear of the plane...oh Jesus...HELP!

Lisa: Todd, are you ok? Tell me what’s happening!

Todd: Hello. We’re going down. I think we’re going to crash. Wait – wait a minute. No, we’re leveling off...we’re ok. I think we may be turning around. That’s it – we changed directions. Do you hear me? We’re flying east again.

Lisa: Ok Todd, what’s going on with the other passengers?

Todd: Everyone is really scared. A few passengers with cell phones have made calls to relatives. A guy, Jeremy, was talking to his wife just before the hijacking started. She told him that hijackers had crashed two planes into the World Trade Center. Lisa is that true??

Lisa: Todd, I have to tell you the truth. It’s very bad. The World Trade Center is gone. Both of the towers have been destroyed.

Todd: Oh God -- help us!

Lisa: A third plane was taken over by terrorists. It crashed into the Pentagon in Washington DC. Our country is under attack, and I’m afraid that your plane may be part of their plan.

Todd: Oh dear God. Dear God... Lisa, will you do something for me?

Lisa: I’ll try if I can. Yes.

Todd: I want you to call my wife and my kids for me and tell them what’s happened. Promise me you’ll call..

Lisa: I promise – I’ll call.”

That just made me cry.

 

[UNCMSinLS]

Please read all of this. We know it but has a real impact reading it all at once.



“Todd: Hello. Operator. Listen to me -- I can’t speak very loud. This is an emergency. I’m a passenger on a United flight to San Francisco. We have a situation here. Our plane has been hijacked. Can you understand me?

Lisa: (exhaling a deep breath to herself) I understand. Can the hijackers see you talking on the phone?

Todd: No.

Lisa: Can you tell me how many hijackers are on the plane?

Todd: There are three that we know of.Lisa: Can you see any weapons? What kind of weapons do they have?

Todd: Yes. They don’t have guns. They have knives – they took over the plane with knives.

Lisa: Do you mean -- like steak knives?Todd: No, these are razor knives -- like box cutters.

Lisa: Can you tell what country these people are from?

Todd: No -- I don’t know. They sound like they’re from the mid-east.

Lisa: Have they said what they want?

Todd: Someone announced from the cockpit that there was a bomb on board. He said he was the captain and to stay in our seats and stay quiet. He said that they were meeting these men’s demands and returning to the airport. It was very broken English, and...I’m telling you...it sounded fake!

Lisa: Ok sir, please give me your name.

Todd: My name is Todd Beamer.

Lisa: Ok Todd, my name is Lisa. Do you know your flight number? If you can’t remember, it’s on your ticket.

Todd: It’s United Flight 93.

Lisa: Now Todd, can you try to tell me exactly what happened?

Todd: Two of the hijackers were sitting in first class near the cockpit. A third one was sitting near the back of the coach section. The two up front got into the cockpit somehow; there was shouting. The third hijacker said he had a bomb. It looks like a bomb. He’s got it tied to his waist with a red belt of some kind.

Lisa: So is the door to the cockpit open?

Todd: No, the hijackers shut it behind them.

Lisa: Has anyone been injured?

Todd: Yes, they…they killed one passenger sitting in first class. There’s been lots of shouting. We don’t know if the pilots are dead or alive. A flight attendant told me that the pilot and copilot had been forced from the cockpit and may have been wounded.Lisa: Where is the 3rd hijacker now Todd?

Todd: He’s near the back of the plane. They forced most of the passengers into first class. There are fourteen of us here in the back. Five are flight attendants. He hasn’t noticed that I slipped into this pantry to get the phone. The guy with the bomb ordered us to sit on the floor in the rear of the plane...oh Jesus...HELP!

Lisa: Todd, are you ok? Tell me what’s happening!

Todd: Hello. We’re going down. I think we’re going to crash. Wait – wait a minute. No, we’re leveling off...we’re ok. I think we may be turning around. That’s it – we changed directions. Do you hear me? We’re flying east again.

Lisa: Ok Todd, what’s going on with the other passengers?

Todd: Everyone is really scared. A few passengers with cell phones have made calls to relatives. A guy, Jeremy, was talking to his wife just before the hijacking started. She told him that hijackers had crashed two planes into the World Trade Center. Lisa is that true??

Lisa: Todd, I have to tell you the truth. It’s very bad. The World Trade Center is gone. Both of the towers have been destroyed.

Todd: Oh God -- help us!

Lisa: A third plane was taken over by terrorists. It crashed into the Pentagon in Washington DC. Our country is under attack, and I’m afraid that your plane may be part of their plan.

Todd: Oh dear God. Dear God... Lisa, will you do something for me?

Lisa: I’ll try if I can. Yes.

Todd: I want you to call my wife and my kids for me and tell them what’s happened. Promise me you’ll call..

Lisa: I promise – I’ll call.”

These stories always make me cry. Even the hero stories make me cry. Just hearing air traffic controllers discussing the hijackings and bringing all flights down makes me sob. We lost so much that day but we did see some incredible humanity as well.

 

[DougDaBroadcasta]

The feeling of being there….there are no words.

 

[lawtig02]

These stories always make me cry. Even the hero stories make me cry. Just hearing air traffic controllers discussing the hijackings and bringing all flights down makes me sob. We lost so much that day but we did see some incredible humanity as well.

I hadn’t thought about this until I was flying out of DC recently but I think the air traffic controllers in the tower at Reagan could have seen the plane hit the Pentagon. If so, I can’t imagine what that moment must have been for them.

 

[Geisterfahrer]

It was a poor choice of words but I don't believe his intended meaning was anywhere close to how it was portrayed. He was attempting to use the definition in about every dictionary that does not refer to the crusades.

Merriam Webster: a remedial enterprise undertaken with zeal and enthusiasm

Google: a vigorous campaign for political, social, or religious change.

So this was very dumb because of how it would play in the Muslim world but that was entirely unintended.

Dumb and unintentional kind of sums up the entire W Bush presidency.

 

[Geisterfahrer]

Rick Rescorla was one of many heroes that day, an absolutely larger than life person whose actions saved many lives.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2002/02/11/september-11th-attacks-world-trade-center-rick-rescorla-the-real-heroes-are-dead

 

[finesse]

Dumb and unintentional kind of sums up the entire W Bush presidency.

Exactly how the hell can you not realize that there is absolutely NO FUCKING WAY this word could be used or even hinted at in this context? If you were to run a computer program to select the most cringeworthy word to use here, where do you think that one would come up?

 

[TarHeelGrad]

Please read all of this. We know it but has a real impact reading it all at once.



“Todd: Hello. Operator. Listen to me -- I can’t speak very loud. This is an emergency. I’m a passenger on a United flight to San Francisco. We have a situation here. Our plane has been hijacked. Can you understand me?

Lisa: (exhaling a deep breath to herself) I understand. Can the hijackers see you talking on the phone?

Todd: No.

Lisa: Can you tell me how many hijackers are on the plane?

Todd: There are three that we know of.Lisa: Can you see any weapons? What kind of weapons do they have?

Todd: Yes. They don’t have guns. They have knives – they took over the plane with knives.

Lisa: Do you mean -- like steak knives?Todd: No, these are razor knives -- like box cutters.

Lisa: Can you tell what country these people are from?

Todd: No -- I don’t know. They sound like they’re from the mid-east.

Lisa: Have they said what they want?

Todd: Someone announced from the cockpit that there was a bomb on board. He said he was the captain and to stay in our seats and stay quiet. He said that they were meeting these men’s demands and returning to the airport. It was very broken English, and...I’m telling you...it sounded fake!

Lisa: Ok sir, please give me your name.

Todd: My name is Todd Beamer.

Lisa: Ok Todd, my name is Lisa. Do you know your flight number? If you can’t remember, it’s on your ticket.

Todd: It’s United Flight 93.

Lisa: Now Todd, can you try to tell me exactly what happened?

Todd: Two of the hijackers were sitting in first class near the cockpit. A third one was sitting near the back of the coach section. The two up front got into the cockpit somehow; there was shouting. The third hijacker said he had a bomb. It looks like a bomb. He’s got it tied to his waist with a red belt of some kind.

Lisa: So is the door to the cockpit open?

Todd: No, the hijackers shut it behind them.

Lisa: Has anyone been injured?

Todd: Yes, they…they killed one passenger sitting in first class. There’s been lots of shouting. We don’t know if the pilots are dead or alive. A flight attendant told me that the pilot and copilot had been forced from the cockpit and may have been wounded.Lisa: Where is the 3rd hijacker now Todd?

Todd: He’s near the back of the plane. They forced most of the passengers into first class. There are fourteen of us here in the back. Five are flight attendants. He hasn’t noticed that I slipped into this pantry to get the phone. The guy with the bomb ordered us to sit on the floor in the rear of the plane...oh Jesus...HELP!

Lisa: Todd, are you ok? Tell me what’s happening!

Todd: Hello. We’re going down. I think we’re going to crash. Wait – wait a minute. No, we’re leveling off...we’re ok. I think we may be turning around. That’s it – we changed directions. Do you hear me? We’re flying east again.

Lisa: Ok Todd, what’s going on with the other passengers?

Todd: Everyone is really scared. A few passengers with cell phones have made calls to relatives. A guy, Jeremy, was talking to his wife just before the hijacking started. She told him that hijackers had crashed two planes into the World Trade Center. Lisa is that true??

Lisa: Todd, I have to tell you the truth. It’s very bad. The World Trade Center is gone. Both of the towers have been destroyed.

Todd: Oh God -- help us!

Lisa: A third plane was taken over by terrorists. It crashed into the Pentagon in Washington DC. Our country is under attack, and I’m afraid that your plane may be part of their plan.

Todd: Oh dear God. Dear God... Lisa, will you do something for me?

Lisa: I’ll try if I can. Yes.

Todd: I want you to call my wife and my kids for me and tell them what’s happened. Promise me you’ll call..

Lisa: I promise – I’ll call.”

This sent chills down my spine. And made me feel like this happened just yesterday.
One of my buddies took judo with one of the heroes from this flight. My friend said that his buddy was a human wrecking ball and would have absolutely destroyed anyone in his path.

 

[BillyL]

That just made me cry.

You're not alone in that regard.

 

[WBroylesH]

I watched the towers fall in my dorm room with an acquaintance who just happened to be walking by and stopped to see what was going on. We weren't close then and haven't been since, but we still message each other every year on 9/11. It had that kinda impact.

 

[rodoheel]

Please read all of this. We know it but has a real impact reading it all at once.



“Todd: Hello. Operator. Listen to me -- I can’t speak very loud. This is an emergency. I’m a passenger on a United flight to San Francisco. We have a situation here. Our plane has been hijacked. Can you understand me?

Lisa: (exhaling a deep breath to herself) I understand. Can the hijackers see you talking on the phone?

Todd: No.

Lisa: Can you tell me how many hijackers are on the plane?

Todd: There are three that we know of.Lisa: Can you see any weapons? What kind of weapons do they have?

Todd: Yes. They don’t have guns. They have knives – they took over the plane with knives.

Lisa: Do you mean -- like steak knives?Todd: No, these are razor knives -- like box cutters.

Lisa: Can you tell what country these people are from?

Todd: No -- I don’t know. They sound like they’re from the mid-east.

Lisa: Have they said what they want?

Todd: Someone announced from the cockpit that there was a bomb on board. He said he was the captain and to stay in our seats and stay quiet. He said that they were meeting these men’s demands and returning to the airport. It was very broken English, and...I’m telling you...it sounded fake!

Lisa: Ok sir, please give me your name.

Todd: My name is Todd Beamer.

Lisa: Ok Todd, my name is Lisa. Do you know your flight number? If you can’t remember, it’s on your ticket.

Todd: It’s United Flight 93.

Lisa: Now Todd, can you try to tell me exactly what happened?

Todd: Two of the hijackers were sitting in first class near the cockpit. A third one was sitting near the back of the coach section. The two up front got into the cockpit somehow; there was shouting. The third hijacker said he had a bomb. It looks like a bomb. He’s got it tied to his waist with a red belt of some kind.

Lisa: So is the door to the cockpit open?

Todd: No, the hijackers shut it behind them.

Lisa: Has anyone been injured?

Todd: Yes, they…they killed one passenger sitting in first class. There’s been lots of shouting. We don’t know if the pilots are dead or alive. A flight attendant told me that the pilot and copilot had been forced from the cockpit and may have been wounded.Lisa: Where is the 3rd hijacker now Todd?

Todd: He’s near the back of the plane. They forced most of the passengers into first class. There are fourteen of us here in the back. Five are flight attendants. He hasn’t noticed that I slipped into this pantry to get the phone. The guy with the bomb ordered us to sit on the floor in the rear of the plane...oh Jesus...HELP!

Lisa: Todd, are you ok? Tell me what’s happening!

Todd: Hello. We’re going down. I think we’re going to crash. Wait – wait a minute. No, we’re leveling off...we’re ok. I think we may be turning around. That’s it – we changed directions. Do you hear me? We’re flying east again.

Lisa: Ok Todd, what’s going on with the other passengers?

Todd: Everyone is really scared. A few passengers with cell phones have made calls to relatives. A guy, Jeremy, was talking to his wife just before the hijacking started. She told him that hijackers had crashed two planes into the World Trade Center. Lisa is that true??

Lisa: Todd, I have to tell you the truth. It’s very bad. The World Trade Center is gone. Both of the towers have been destroyed.

Todd: Oh God -- help us!

Lisa: A third plane was taken over by terrorists. It crashed into the Pentagon in Washington DC. Our country is under attack, and I’m afraid that your plane may be part of their plan.

Todd: Oh dear God. Dear God... Lisa, will you do something for me?

Lisa: I’ll try if I can. Yes.

Todd: I want you to call my wife and my kids for me and tell them what’s happened. Promise me you’ll call..

Lisa: I promise – I’ll call.”

FYI it appears that this "transcript" is fake. It draws from elements of the operator's later report of the conversation, but there is no transcribed version of the conversation, as this suggests.

 

[Calheel]

FYI it appears that this "transcript" is fake. It draws from elements of the operator's later report of the conversation, but there is no transcribed version of the conversation, as this suggests.

How could there be no transcribed version? All 911 calls are audio recorded. So, surely, there is a transcription of this call.

 

[rodoheel]

How could there be no transcribed version? All 911 calls are audio recorded. So, surely, there is a transcription of this call.

It wasn't a 911 call, he was just speaking with a phone operator.

Is This the Full Transcript of a Call from Flight 93 on 9/11?

An online text purports to document a conversation between passenger Todd Beamer and phone operator Lisa Jefferson.

www.snopes.com

 

[nycfan]

Dammit

 

[Calheel]

It wasn't a 911 call, he was just speaking with a phone operator.

Is This the Full Transcript of a Call from Flight 93 on 9/11?

An online text purports to document a conversation between passenger Todd Beamer and phone operator Lisa Jefferson.

www.snopes.com

Oh. That makes sense. You likely couldn't call 911 on an airplane, especially back in 2001.

 

[rodoheel]

Oh. That makes sense. You likely couldn't call 911 on an airplane, especially back in 2001.

I actually think one of the passengers may have managed to make a 911 call. This cool website discusses all the phone calls made by people on United Flight 93. There are transcripts of just a handful, which doesn't include Todd Bowden's call:

Phone Calls from Flight 93 - Flight 93 National Memorial (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov