AI may fail just like the music industry did

gtyellowjacket said:
That has always been the dream. It sounds logical and it rarely works. I do think automation and other advancements do help, but the gains should be so much bigger for workers. The real power to improve the lot of workers is collective bargaining, labor shortages and to a lesser extent govermental pressure. It’s unfortunate that we are living through a time when those forces are so weak.
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Yes, they certainly help. I think even AI can be used to advance this cause rather than lay people off. But like you said, it requires collective bargaining. Same way we got the weekend, 8 hour day, etc. Power concedes nothing without a demand, and the demand also has to be backed up with the force of organized labor. White collar workers are perhaps even more poorly positioned than blue collar workers to protect against automation due to the low levels of white collar union density.
 
“The less you eat, drink and read books...the less you think, love, theorize, sing, paint, fence, etc., the more you save - the greater becomes your treasure which neither moths nor dust will devour - your capital. The less you are, the more you have.”
 
donbosco said:
“The less you eat, drink and read books...the less you think, love, theorize, sing, paint, fence, etc., the more you save - the greater becomes your treasure which neither moths nor dust will devour - your capital. The less you are, the more you have.”
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Words of a pretty smart guy, huh?
 
"The less you eat, drink and buy books; the less you go to the theatre, the dance hall, the public house; the less you think, love, theorise, sing, paint, fence, etc., the more you save – the greater becomes your treasure which neither moths nor rust will devour – your capital. The less you are, the less you express your own life, the more you have, i.e., the greater is your alienated life, the greater is the store of your estranged being."

Left off some parts...
 
Paine said:
Yes, they certainly help. I think even AI can be used to advance this cause rather than lay people off. But like you said, it requires collective bargaining. Same way we got the weekend, 8 hour day, etc. Power concedes nothing without a demand, and the demand also has to be backed up with the force of organized labor. White collar workers are perhaps even more poorly positioned than blue collar workers to protect against automation due to the low levels of white collar union density.
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Agreed. When workers were really making gains, there were a lot more unionized blue collar workers. And there was more demand for the education that white collar provided. So the laws were written to heavily favor blue collar workers unionizing and most white collar workers could benefit from those blue collar guys making gains... If you aren't raising wages and benefits for white collar guys allong with the unionized blue guys, white collar will move to the better job.

But now there is so much more white collar work. There's no real reason that white color can't be unionized but the laws in place really discourage it.

And I know that unions have traditionally protected against automation. The members are paying them to protect their jobs but honestly I think it's the wrong approach. Automation makes those workers more productive. More productive workers can out compete shops that aren't as well automated and their higher value presumably could demand more wages and benefits.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
And I know that unions have traditionally protected against automation. The members are paying them to protect their jobs but honestly I think it's the wrong approach. Automation makes those workers more productive. More productive workers can out compete shops that aren't as well automated and their higher value presumably could demand more wages and benefits.
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I think most unions realize that automation is great for productivity gains but also realize that, as it stands, the bosses will not let them see those gains. So better to work against automation in the short run. I disagree with the framing as well but it has a sort of logic to it from their perspective.
 
CeruleanBlueHeel said:
He's saying, too, open source models (think Linux) could become as impactful as the large for-profit private models. I don't know if that's enough to meaningfully impact the large industry players, bur certainly the smaller ones lose out and themselves become part of the open source models.

25 years ago I assembled a home recording studio centered around a Tascam 788 Portastudio. The quality of the output was pretty good but never yielded any longer term advantages, precisely because everybody else had started doing the same.

BTW, I like the Beato podcast platform. Wish we had this growing up in the 60s and 70s.
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I like Beato too. Thus, the link.
 
gregh1 said:
How bout converse or trade notes then? The brain rot may not be debatable but you can argue AI is not a cause given how recent it is.
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100% agree

I can't remember where I read that study of the cognitive decline though. I think it's overall screen issues. Especially at schools
 
AI is not going anywhere. It's too useful. The current versions of it may eventually be replaced by far superior ones. As Google replaced yahoo, as aol/netscape were killed off by better versions.

But the idea that current limitations will kill it off is just not going to happen. Right now it can be used to replace the work of entry level professionals. It gives experienced professionals something to start from.

The fact that it's not perfect does not make it useless. Anymore than the fresh college grads you hire who have naive belief in their unproven knowledge.

I'm not sure any of this is "good" for society. I would hate to be in college now. For me AI is a useful tool to give me something to work from. It's no better or worse than if I asked a 1-3 year person on my team to take a first stab at something... only it takes AI 30 seconds and the junior person a couple hours... and I don't have to coddle AI's feelings when I rip it apart and rewrite it.

Eventually AI will do what the 5 to 10 year types can do... and before long it will do/see what I do. Hopefully I'm ready to retire before that happens.

But the idea that AI is going to fail because of its current error rate is naive. Like the internet, good or bad, the genie is out of the bottle. It's only going to get better and more pervasive.
 
NYCBlueBlood said:
AI is not going anywhere. It's too useful. The current versions of it may eventually be replaced by far superior ones. As Google replaced yahoo, as aol/netscape were killed off by better versions.

But the idea that current limitations will kill it off is just not going to happen. Right now it can be used to replace the work of entry level professionals. It gives experienced professionals something to start from.

The fact that it's not perfect does not make it useless. Anymore than the fresh college grads you hire who have naive belief in their unproven knowledge.

I'm not sure any of this is "good" for society. I would hate to be in college now. For me AI is a useful tool to give me something to work from. It's no better or worse than if I asked a 1-3 year person on my team to take a first stab at something... only it takes AI 30 seconds and the junior person a couple hours... and I don't have to coddle AI's feelings when I rip it apart and rewrite it.

Eventually AI will do what the 5 to 10 year types can do... and before long it will do/see what I do. Hopefully I'm ready to retire before that happens.

But the idea that AI is going to fail because of its current error rate is naive. Like the internet, good or bad, the genie is out of the bottle. It's only going to get better and more pervasive.
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I hope im dead before it becomes tremendously more pervasive. I honestly do not want to exist in a world where this technology is paramount. It is terrifying to me.
 
NYCBlueBlood said:
AI is not going anywhere. It's too useful. The current versions of it may eventually be replaced by far superior ones. As Google replaced yahoo, as aol/netscape were killed off by better versions.

But the idea that current limitations will kill it off is just not going to happen. Right now it can be used to replace the work of entry level professionals. It gives experienced professionals something to start from.

The fact that it's not perfect does not make it useless. Anymore than the fresh college grads you hire who have naive belief in their unproven knowledge.

I'm not sure any of this is "good" for society. I would hate to be in college now. For me AI is a useful tool to give me something to work from. It's no better or worse than if I asked a 1-3 year person on my team to take a first stab at something... only it takes AI 30 seconds and the junior person a couple hours... and I don't have to coddle AI's feelings when I rip it apart and rewrite it.

Eventually AI will do what the 5 to 10 year types can do... and before long it will do/see what I do. Hopefully I'm ready to retire before that happens.

But the idea that AI is going to fail because of its current error rate is naive. Like the internet, good or bad, the genie is out of the bottle. It's only going to get better and more pervasive.
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To be clear, it’s doing a shitload more than the work of an entry level professional. There are a TON of out-of-work white collar professionals who’ve taken jobs training AI models that will basically make their own professions obsolete.

Ask anybody who works in computer coding, for example. I’ve got a buddy who’s written/co-written textbooks and guidebooks about coding. He’s made a small fortune because of his expertise.

He was just let go from his job and is pretty sure that he’s not gonna be able to find an analogous position any time soon. AI is taking over coding jobs.

I read this article a few days ago—it hit home because it’s an expose of a company (called Mercor) that I’ve heard a bit about. FWIW, I’m an out-of-work editor and writer—I was laid off last June, and haven’t yet found a full-time gig. Mercor has at least 5-10 job listings on LinkedIn every day for editors to help train AI. The article speaks to how their business model is affecting all white collar professionals.

www.theverge.com

The laid-off lawyers and PhDs training AI to steal their careers

Experienced white-collar workers are now part of a miserable gig economy.
www.theverge.com www.theverge.com
 
Personally, I’m not afraid of it except when it comes to faking some political ads which may sway an election to go a different way than I’d like. Some deep-fake bull shit that the masses will gobble up as truth to the detriment of society and the world as a whole.

Agree, it will suck if folks lose their jobs to AI, but that sort of thing has been going around a long time. One thing, and one job becomes obsolete with the advent of the next invention.

Of course that’s easy for me say, being retired. I’ve run my race and I’m tired. I’m not afraid of it, but I do feel sorry for those adversely affected, and happy for those it may help.
 
Centerpiece said:
Personally, I’m not afraid of it except when it comes to faking some political ads which may sway an election to go a different way than I’d like. Some deep-fake bull shit that the masses will gobble up as truth to the detriment of society and the world as a whole.

Agree, it will suck if folks lose their jobs to AI, but that sort of thing has been going around a long time. One thing, and one job becomes obsolete with the advent of the next invention.

Of course that’s easy for me say, being retired. I’ve run my race and I’m tired. I’m not afraid of it, but I do feel sorry for those adversely affected, and happy for those it may help.
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I see this a lot. Basically the idea that AI is little more than the newest technology, akin to the rise of computers in the 70s/80s or the internet in the 90s/00s. And so it’s not a big deal—a few people might lose their jobs, but we’ve seen this all before.

I think that view vastly underestimates the rate and complexity of AI advancement we’re currently seeing.
 
EyeballKid said:
I see this a lot. Basically the idea that AI is little more than the newest technology, akin to the rise of computers in the 70s/80s or the internet in the 90s/00s. And so it’s not a big deal—a few people might lose their jobs, but we’ve seen this all before.

I think that view vastly underestimates the rate and complexity of AI advancement we’re currently seeing.
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I get it. And see it. It’s all up in your face in the music biz and that’s why I posted this bit from Beato’s perspective because that’s what he’s really speaking to. AI in the music biz… that’s what has his panties in a wad.

But I’m at a point in my life where I just can’t be bothered. Nothing I can do about it anyway. Just embrace it for what it’s worth and how I can manipulate its elements to do my bidding. To hell with everything else about it… except the bit about the deep-fake. Some serious shit right there.
 
Centerpiece said:
I get it. And see it. It’s all up in your face in the music biz and that’s why I posted this bit from Beato’s perspective because that’s what he’s really speaking to. AI in the music biz… that’s what has his panties in a wad.

But I’m at a point in my life where I just can’t be bothered. Nothing I can do about it anyway. Just embrace it for what it’s worth and how I can manipulate its elements to do my bidding. To hell with everything else about it… except the bit about the deep-fake. Some serious shit right there.
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I’m only tangentially speaking about Beato’s piece. It seems like this thread has morphed into a more general discussion of AI; I posted an article above discussing how AI is deeply impacting white collar fields and its impacts will become more intense in the coming months/years.

If you’d prefer to keep it specific to music, lemme know and l’ll start a different, more generalized thread about AI.
 
EyeballKid said:
I’m only tangentially speaking about Beato’s piece. It seems like this thread has morphed into a more general discussion of AI; I posted an article above discussing how AI is deeply impacting white collar fields and its impacts will become more intense in the coming months/years.

If you’d prefer to keep it specific to music, lemme know and l’ll start a different, more generalized thread about AI.
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Oh no. You’re good. The box has been opened on the subject… may has well let all the ketchup hit the wall in this room as any other.

My take is of no consequence … and I’ve already admitted to being a Luddite.

No, by all means let those who actually know what they’re talking about finish out the AI conversation. I certainly don’t know enough to weigh in anymore than I have.

Now, if we wanna continue the Beatles Convo…

Nah, just kidding. There is a music thread for that! 😂
 
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