AI may fail just like the music industry did

[Paine]

That has always been the dream. It sounds logical and it rarely works. I do think automation and other advancements do help, but the gains should be so much bigger for workers. The real power to improve the lot of workers is collective bargaining, labor shortages and to a lesser extent govermental pressure. It’s unfortunate that we are living through a time when those forces are so weak.

Yes, they certainly help. I think even AI can be used to advance this cause rather than lay people off. But like you said, it requires collective bargaining. Same way we got the weekend, 8 hour day, etc. Power concedes nothing without a demand, and the demand also has to be backed up with the force of organized labor. White collar workers are perhaps even more poorly positioned than blue collar workers to protect against automation due to the low levels of white collar union density.

 

[donbosco]

“The less you eat, drink and read books...the less you think, love, theorize, sing, paint, fence, etc., the more you save - the greater becomes your treasure which neither moths nor dust will devour - your capital. The less you are, the more you have.”

 

[Paine]

“The less you eat, drink and read books...the less you think, love, theorize, sing, paint, fence, etc., the more you save - the greater becomes your treasure which neither moths nor dust will devour - your capital. The less you are, the more you have.”

Words of a pretty smart guy, huh?

 

[donbosco]

"The less you eat, drink and buy books; the less you go to the theatre, the dance hall, the public house; the less you think, love, theorise, sing, paint, fence, etc., the more you save – the greater becomes your treasure which neither moths nor rust will devour – your capital. The less you are, the less you express your own life, the more you have, i.e., the greater is your alienated life, the greater is the store of your estranged being."

Left off some parts...

 

[gtyellowjacket]

Yes, they certainly help. I think even AI can be used to advance this cause rather than lay people off. But like you said, it requires collective bargaining. Same way we got the weekend, 8 hour day, etc. Power concedes nothing without a demand, and the demand also has to be backed up with the force of organized labor. White collar workers are perhaps even more poorly positioned than blue collar workers to protect against automation due to the low levels of white collar union density.

Agreed. When workers were really making gains, there were a lot more unionized blue collar workers. And there was more demand for the education that white collar provided. So the laws were written to heavily favor blue collar workers unionizing and most white collar workers could benefit from those blue collar guys making gains... If you aren't raising wages and benefits for white collar guys allong with the unionized blue guys, white collar will move to the better job.

But now there is so much more white collar work. There's no real reason that white color can't be unionized but the laws in place really discourage it.

And I know that unions have traditionally protected against automation. The members are paying them to protect their jobs but honestly I think it's the wrong approach. Automation makes those workers more productive. More productive workers can out compete shops that aren't as well automated and their higher value presumably could demand more wages and benefits.

 

[Paine]

And I know that unions have traditionally protected against automation. The members are paying them to protect their jobs but honestly I think it's the wrong approach. Automation makes those workers more productive. More productive workers can out compete shops that aren't as well automated and their higher value presumably could demand more wages and benefits.

I think most unions realize that automation is great for productivity gains but also realize that, as it stands, the bosses will not let them see those gains. So better to work against automation in the short run. I disagree with the framing as well but it has a sort of logic to it from their perspective.