American politics, in a nutshell

[superrific]

granted, I can see why one under direct control by the Chinese government would be of more concern. But I think it's silly to ignore the dangers of the others if we truly feel TikTok is a danger.

Well, those aren't necessarily related. Addressing the thing of greater concern can in fact be a good idea, while the things of lesser concern are sorted out. Again, the First Amendment is a big concern in this space, and only not a concern when applied to foreign ownership.

 

[NYCBlueBlood]

Well, those aren't necessarily related. Addressing the thing of greater concern can in fact be a good idea, while the things of lesser concern are sorted out. Again, the First Amendment is a big concern in this space, and only not a concern when applied to foreign ownership.

I agree with your point. However, I would prefer that they call out the fact that the foreign ownership creates a clear and present danger (and exemption from the First Amendment issues), and that while the other forms of large scale social media have almost all the same concerns, sorting out the First Amendment concerns means that focusing on them will take more time and consideration (if possible at all).

 

[SnoopRob]

OK. So this is an implied retraction of your claim that the law is about scapegoating TikTok. It appears your real position is that the ban isn't very effective. Fine. I have no problem with that argument. Let's just be precise about what we are arguing -- and that, of course, is a purpose of discussion. It's not bad that your views have been clarified. It's in fact a good thing.

The answer to your question is the First Amendment as interpreted by this Supreme Court. Well, that's at least part of the answer, depending on what you are referring to as "problem of data privacy."

No, I'm not retracting that this is about scapegoating TikTok.

The passage of the law was very much an election year PR-move by both parties to take a shot at China (disliked by Pubs with Dems not wanting to fall into a trap of "supporting" China) under the guise of addressing "data security" as part of "national security".

Focusing only on a very narrow subsection of data security risks is very much like the Republican strict focus on the southern border as it relates to immigration. It is true that folks enter the country illegally via crossing the southern border, but the Republican focus on it distorts that more folks violate immigration law by overstaying legitimate visas than by crossing the southern border. And by focusing so strongly on illegal immigration via the southern border, Republicans avoid having to undertake the real issue of fixing our broken immigration system by focusing solely on illegal immigration via the southern border and villainizing those who enter the US via that border.

Similarly, the focus on TikTok (and real/potential Chinese video social media apps) performs a similar trick in that it distills a very, very complicated issue into a simplistic solution that fails to actually solve the issue in a systemic way. Much like focusing on the southern border provides the opportunity to make some strides toward addressing illegal immigration at the expense of a holistic solution to our broken immigration system, targeting TikTok (and real/potential similar Chinese apps) provides the appearance of offering a solution at the expense of taking action to create a real solution.

So in the same way that folks who attempt to immigrate to the US via the southern border are scapegoated by Republicans in lieu of fixing our broken immigration system, TikTok is being scapegoated (well, was, now everyone is running away from it as fast as possible) in lieu of fixing national security issues related to data collection and security.

 

[Geisterfahrer]

Can someone post an article or two that they think provides a good summary of the national security risks posed by TikTok? Because I've done a basic Google search and read the articles provided and I don't see the national security risk posed by TikTok alone (and instead see TikTok as merely one part of a larger security risk posed by modern technology and its place in our daily lives).

I don't view the situation as one where Congress got together and passed good legislation in bipartisan agreement that they now want to run from, I see it as one where both parties fell victim to "demonize our supposed enemy" and found bipartisan agreement in taking a largely PR vote that they now regret due to the check coming due for a bad decision made largely based on short-term PR optics.

I think there are a lot of national security risks that come from our phones (and other computers) plus how technology dependent we are in nearly every aspect of our daily lives, but it strikes me that focusing on TikTok is merely a scapegoating mission that doesn't do a lot to actual solve real problems and instead provides the appearance of taking action while also demonizing a "suspicious" out-group.

This goes over the issues pretty well, albeit a little out of date on developments:

TikTok and National Security

The House of Representatives' recent decision on TikTok highlights concerns about its potential national security risks. This commentary highlights why the United States needs to reassess its technological connection to its largest competitor, China.

www.csis.org

My personal position is enhanced by having lived in Asia, worked in China and having a deep paranoia of our frenemy.

 

[SnoopRob]

This goes over the issues pretty well, albeit a little out of date on developments:

TikTok and National Security

The House of Representatives' recent decision on TikTok highlights concerns about its potential national security risks. This commentary highlights why the United States needs to reassess its technological connection to its largest competitor, China.

www.csis.org

My personal position is enhanced by having lived in Asia, worked in China and having a deep paranoia of our frenemy.

Thanks for this link. I have read that article, but it is a good addition to the thread.

My take on this article is that it lays out that Chinese apps pose a significant potential risk to national security, but fails to show that focusing solely on TikTok and very similar apps is the solution to the national security risks posed by Chinese apps.

 

[hedge]

"The blob"? Sigh. This isn't quite as ludicrous as Marc Andreesen claiming (as he did today in the Times) that his portfolio companies were being forced to hire Marxists, but it's an unhelpful phrase that seems to be "neoliberal" metastasized. Using the phrase uncritically like this will cause you to lose credibility, not just with me but with others here I think.

But anyway, back to the subject at hand: that is not actually the main concern. TikTok's data collection creates opportunity for blackmail. Someone uses the app for a while, and then they get nominated for a government position with a top secret clearance, and the background check doesn't reveal that the person, as a 22 year old, was briefly into squish porn. But China would know, and they could use the threat of revealing that to control the government employee. That's bad. In theory, an American company could do the same, but it's not remotely the same danger.

Moreover, they can even go after people who don't use tiktok. It can swipe contact information. So someone exchanges numbers with Jeffrey Epstein, and China knows. You can blackmail them with that information.

Same with extramarital affairs. Guy has a phone and uses it to communicate with his secret lover. Well, now China knows that's happening. Hmm. Blackmail could easily follow.

There's a lot of mischief that it can do, and I'm confident I'm just scratching the surface.

Upvote for squishing the blob and crush porn into the same post...

 

[mpaer]

It will be interesting to see what the orangeturd pushes for in regards to trade with China, tarriffs etc. It is "my impression" that they could kick our arse by limiting precious metal exports, closing down FoxCon or various other actions

 

[sringwal]

 

[Huh?]

The problem is larger than TikTok, and certainly won't disappear under the TikTok ban.

We need regulations that:

(a) have stronger privacy laws. I have never signed up for a Meta product. Yet their platforms undoubtedly have a profile of me that they can use for recommendations if I sign up. That's creepy, and should be illegal. They shouldn't be able to sell my data in an identifiable way to other companies.

(b) require algorithms that control presentation of data either be open source or, at the very least, completely controllable by the user. I should be able to turn off and on what data they use to drive my engagement.

I understand that this may break their revenue model. I think that is a good thing.

 

[SnoopRob]

The problem is larger than TikTok, and certainly won't disappear under the TikTok ban.

We need regulations that:

(a) have stronger privacy laws. I have never signed up for a Meta product. Yet their platforms undoubtedly have a profile of me that they can use for recommendations if I sign up. That's creepy, and should be illegal. They shouldn't be able to sell my data in an identifiable way to other companies.

(b) require algorithms that control presentation of data either be open source or, at the very least, completely controllable by the user. I should be able to turn off and on what data they use to drive my engagement.

I understand that this may break their revenue model. I think that is a good thing.

This is very similar to my view, that social media must be better regulated at an overall level if we're to protect both individuals and society.

I do think there are particular issues with social media being owned/controlled by foreign entities that should also be addressed, but addressing social media as a whole will go a long way toward making foreign ownership/control less troublesome.

 

[Mulberry Heel]

Reminds me of the cartoon from early 2017 that showed a family huddling in the ruins of a major city (maybe Washington, DC) warming themselves over a fire and the dad says "Well, at least we didn't elect that awful Hillary Clinton to the White House."

 

[eternalheel]

There's no telling what kind of ruse the rubes have been doing behind the scenes, but as one hilarious content creator said, "the united states government just laid off millions of independent entrepreneurs like it was nothing."