America's Reichstag fire???

ICE agents ram a car with a baby and toddler inside to arrest someone.

Looks like we should find out if there was an assault....

Cerna-Camacho, who revealed he had 'two kids in my car' at the time of the collision, slowly walked towards police with his hands behind his head.

He was placed in handcuffs and searched as he, in a soft spoken tone, seemingly tried to plead with the agents and claimed he was not a criminal.

But one agent hit back and asked, 'you remember Saturday?', referring to the day Cerna-Camacho allegedly assaulted an officer during a riot.

He admitted he remembered the incident, before saying how he was the victim of officers who 'put their hands on me'.

'Yes, I remember you when you pushed on me. You pushed me,' Cerna-Camacho said. 'Yes, I remember what happened. I know you guys put your hands on me first.'

The officer, however, did not show any sympathy for Cerna-Camacho and instead reminded him how he has video of the incident.


But the suspect, who also claimed to video, continued to plea: 'I was on a public road, man. I was on a public road. I was on a public road.

'I was on public property. I was in the middle of the street and you pushed me. You put your hands on me.'

The ICE officer remained unphazed by Cerna-Camacho's claims, reiterating once again how the alleged assault was caught on camera.

 
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Looks like we should find out if there was an assault....

Cerna-Camacho, who revealed he had 'two kids in my car' at the time of the collision, slowly walked towards police with his hands behind his head.

He was placed in handcuffs and searched as he, in a soft spoken tone, seemingly tried to plead with the agents and claimed he was not a criminal.

But one agent hit back and asked, 'you remember Saturday?', referring to the day Cerna-Camacho allegedly assaulted an officer during a riot.

He admitted he remembered the incident, before saying how he was the victim of officers who 'put their hands on me'.

'Yes, I remember you when you pushed on me. You pushed me,' Cerna-Camacho said. 'Yes, I remember what happened. I know you guys put your hands on me first.'

The officer, however, did not show any sympathy for Cerna-Camacho and instead reminded him how he has video of the incident.


But the suspect, who also claimed to video, continued to plea: 'I was on a public road, man. I was on a public road. I was on a public road.

'I was on public property. I was in the middle of the street and you pushed me. You put your hands on me.'

The ICE officer remained unphazed by Cerna-Camacho's claims, reiterating once again how the alleged assault was caught on camera.

Without any other facts, I will believe the guy over the border patrol fascist every single time. Those fascists lie. All. The. Time. Literally there are contempt proceedings happening in MULTIPLE COURTS (four by my count) because of all the lying and cover ups.

Note also that it does not appear he was Mirandized, but that's no surprise, is it?
 
And the science of race continued long after phrenology was debunked.
How long do you think the science of race persisted? It's been considered completely lacking in merit since World War II.

One way to know that there is no science of race is that there's no scientific definition of race. Is a person with one white parent and one black parent "caucausian" or "black"? You don't get to choose a middle option here; you're talking about the science of race. So if you can't even determine what race a person is, there's obviously no scientific validity to any of it.

Another way to know is that race is defined in terms of skin color. But skin color is a tiny % of our genome, and not really related to any other features or traits. I'm sure you don't understand "admixture dynamics" but the way things work, traits don't remain clustered together (if they were clustered at some initial point) so long as there is mating between groups. Which we know 100% there has been, and a lot of it.

Another way to know that there's no science of race is the tremendous amount of migration within the species. Did you know that Spaniards are descended from Visigoths (German) and Moors (North African)? Scandanavians generally have no relation to Arabs, but they did interbreed with native Eskimo and Laplander populations. You want to group Scandanavians and Spaniards together, but they don't have a common ancestral history. Thus any racial traits they share aren't scientifically determined but culturally established.
 
How long do you think the science of race persisted? It's been considered completely lacking in merit since World War II.
I don't search for race very often but, as of a few years ago, you could still find reputable universities and other reputable institutions providing information on the commonly accepted 3-5 human races.
One way to know that there is no science of race is that there's no scientific definition of race. Is a person with one white parent and one black parent "caucausian" or "black"? You don't get to choose a middle option here; you're talking about the science of race. So if you can't even determine what race a person is, there's obviously no scientific validity to any of it.

Another way to know is that race is defined in terms of skin color. But skin color is a tiny % of our genome, and not really related to any other features or traits. I'm sure you don't understand "admixture dynamics" but the way things work, traits don't remain clustered together (if they were clustered at some initial point) so long as there is mating between groups. Which we know 100% there has been, and a lot of it.

Another way to know that there's no science of race is the tremendous amount of migration within the species. Did you know that Spaniards are descended from Visigoths (German) and Moors (North African)? Scandanavians generally have no relation to Arabs, but they did interbreed with native Eskimo and Laplander populations. You want to group Scandanavians and Spaniards together, but they don't have a common ancestral history. Thus any racial traits they share aren't scientifically determined but culturally established.
I'm not disputing that race is becoming more and more ambiguous. That doesn't change my claim about Mexicans generally being considered to be Caucasian.

Have you forgotten about George Zimmerman already?
 
Or, to put in simple terms: There is a reason that Italian "whites" are much darker in skin color than Scandinavians.

Ironically, the entire evolutionary gamut of skin colors is simply there to offer up the minimal amount of protection needed, in a given area, to avoid sunburns.
 
I don't search for race very often but, as of a few years ago, you could still find reputable universities and other reputable institutions providing information on the commonly accepted 3-5 human races.

I'm not disputing that race is becoming more and more ambiguous. That doesn't change my claim about Mexicans generally being considered to be Caucasian.

Have you forgotten about George Zimmerman already?
Yes, and no.

"The Census first began collecting separate data on 'Mexicans' as a racial category in 1930, but dropped the category in the 1940 Census, noting that 'Mexicans are to be regarded as White unless definitely of Indian or other nonwhite race.'”

 
I don't search for race very often but, as of a few years ago, you could still find reputable universities and other reputable institutions providing information on the commonly accepted 3-5 human races.

I'm not disputing that race is becoming more and more ambiguous. That doesn't change my claim about Mexicans generally being considered to be Caucasian.

Have you forgotten about George Zimmerman already?
Does this change your claim or are you going to double down on stupid yet again? This looks more like a fifth and not most.


  • Mestizo:
    .Opens in new tab

    Approximately 60% of the population identifies as Mestizo, representing a blend of Spanish and Mesoamerican ancestry. While the term "Mestizo" is not widely used as a distinct identity, it is a significant demographic group.

    • White Mexicans:
      .Opens in new tab

      Around 20% of the population is considered White, consisting of descendants of Spaniards and other European immigrants who have largely assimilated into the mainstream Mexican culture.
 
A lot of great information here. I've talked about my own family's role in the "Pocahontas Exception" in the early days of the new ZZLP, but this goes a little more in depth.



At the beginning of the 20th century, the eugenics movement was gaining momentum. Eugenics is the practice of controlling reproduction to alter the genetic characteristics of a population. Some advocates of eugenics believe that methods like selective “breeding” and sterilization would benefit human society by promoting beneficial traits. But who decides which traits are desirable and which are undesirable? Historically, eugenics has been used to justify white supremacy, resulting in discriminatory policies and heinous practices like forced sterilization.

One such policy was the Racial Integrity Act, which was passed in Virginia in 1924. The new law prohibited interracial marriage and ushered in a long period of discriminatory racial designation administered by the government. One of the Act’s main proponents was a physician named Walter Ashby Plecker. As the head of Virginia’s Bureau of Vital Statistics from 1912-1946, Plecker was responsible for ensuring that all infants born in Virginia received birth certificates that included their racial designation. An active eugenicist, Plecker used bureaucracy as a weapon against Black and Indigenous people across the state of Virginia.

It wasn’t until 1967 that the Racial Integrity Act was overturned by the United States Supreme Court in the Loving vs. Virginia case. Nevertheless, Plecker’s legacy of racial discrimination still impacts communities today, in particular Tribal communities. Many find it difficult to document their ancestral lineage due to the “paper genocide” that identified all non-white individuals as “colored” regardless of their identity. Despite this challenge, seven Tribes have gained federal recognition in Virginia.

Eugenic Origins of the Racial Integrity Act​

Eugenics argued that “genetic purity” could lead to a more utopian society. The idea was to select and support the proliferation of “desired” heritable characteristics through control over the parental rights of specific communities.

Sterilization had become one of the many tools employed by eugenicists across the world, including Nazi Germany. On July 14, 1933, the Nazi government passed the Law for the Prevention of Genetically Defective Progeny, allowing the mass sterilization of the “hereditarily weak,” such as the deaf and blind, those with physical deformities or mental illnesses, and various groups under persecution such as the gay and lesbian community and Jews.

The United States was no stranger to these cruel “treatments” and likely informed the rest of the world on eugenicist practices. In 1907, the state of Indiana had passed the world’s first sterilization law. And, in 1924, the “The Virginia Sterilization Act” was enacted, initially targeting the intellectually disabled.



Walter Plecker Champions the Act​

Walter Ashby Plecker was born in Augusta County, Virginia in the spring of 1861. After securing a medical degree from the University of Maryland in 1885, he relocated to Hampton, Virginia and began working as the public health officer for Elizabeth City County. He took a strong interest in obstetrics and helped reduce birth-mortality rates by 50%. However, he was also a staunch advocate of eugenics and white supremacy.

In 1912, Plecker was selected to serve at the head of the newly created Bureau of Vital Statistics in Virginia. The responsibility of the office was primarily to ensure that all infants born in Virginia received birth certificates, including racial designation. In the following years, Plecker pushed for the creation of Virginia’s Racial Integrity Act.

Passed in 1924, the act outlawed interracial marriage and added strict definitions to racial classifications. It also criminalized the falsification of racial identity on legal documents, stating that, “the term ‘white person’ shall apply only to such person as has no trace whatever of any blood other than Caucasian.” Any who fell outside of this definition were to be identified as “colored.” While registration of racial identity was technically voluntary, it was required for things such as registering for the draft, enrolling in school, marrying, or issuance of a birth certificate. Racial identification was not limited solely to “blood traces.” The law allowed racial identity to be determined by things such as physical features and even family names.

The Pocahontas Exception​

Existing laws had allowed any person with one sixteenth or less of American Indian blood and no other non-caucasian blood to identify as white. This was because many prominent white Virginian families had long espoused themselves to be descendants of Pocahontas and John Rolfe. This became known as the “Pocahontas Exception,” and allowed many white families to maintain their ancestral connection to Pocahontas without nullifying their white racial identity.

However, Plecker feared that this would lead many mixed-race Virginians to pass themselves off as having Native American ancestry instead of black ancestry in order to afford themselves the privileges associated with being identified as white. He writes that “some of these mongrels, finding that they have been able to sneak in their birth certificates unchallenged as Indians are now making a rush to register as white” and that “one hundred and fifty thousand other mulattoes in Virginia are watching eagerly the attempt of their pseudo-Indian brethren, ready to follow in a rush when the first have made a break in the dike.” As a consequence, he decided that “there are no native born Virginia Indians free from negro intermixture.”

In 1930, the General Assembly officially updated the Racial Integrity Act to define a “colored” person as anyone who holds even “one drop” of “negro blood.” As far as Plecker was concerned, this meant that all Native Americans in Virginia would now be identified as “colored.” Any birth certificates predating 1924 that identified a person as “Indian” were overwritten as “colored,” as assigned by the state. His racist investigations and practices were comprehensive, issuing lists of surnames descendant from “free negroes” to be used in the racial identification of “colored” persons.
 
Yes, and no.

"The Census first began collecting separate data on 'Mexicans' as a racial category in 1930, but dropped the category in the 1940 Census, noting that 'Mexicans are to be regarded as White unless definitely of Indian or other nonwhite race.'”

I suspect they dropped Mexican as a racial category because it literally was never a recognized racial category.

Even today, if you select "white" on some online forms, likely some government forms, they'll have multiple subcategories "White - Hispanic", "White- non-Hispanic", "White - ...."

I'm baffled as to why the claim that Mexicans are generally considered to be white is so controversial that a debate has carried on for multiple pages.
 
I suspect they dropped Mexican as a racial category because it literally was never a recognized racial category.

Even today, if you select "white" on some online forms, they'll have multiple subcategories "White - Hispanic", "White- non-Hispanic", "White - ...."

I'm baffled as to why the claim that Mexicans are generally considered to be white is so controversial that it has carried on for multiple pages.
Because the Mexicans claim only 20% of them are and their reputation for the truth is better than yours.
 
I suspect they dropped Mexican as a racial category because it literally was never a recognized racial category.

Even today, if you select "white" on some online forms, likely some government forms, they'll have multiple subcategories "White - Hispanic", "White- non-Hispanic", "White - ...."

I'm baffled as to why the claim that Mexicans are generally considered to be white is so controversial that a debate has carried on for multiple pages.

To be clear, I'm not arguing it as "either/or." But the reasoning behind why Mexicans are now "considered white" is complicated, and really does demand a long conversation in order to fully flesh out. Most of everything else that I have posted on this thread has been, for me, prior knowledge. This part is new... and fascinating.


Today, everyone wants to be counted. Now everyone wants representation. But at that time period, people did not want that. And they also did not want to be racialized. This was a time where the best avenue for people to fit in was to claim whiteness.

In 1929, the League of the United Latin American Citizens (LULAC), a Mexican-American organization, formed in Corpus Christi, TX. One of their main organizing efforts was to get "Mexican" off the 1930 census. They protested: we are white race, we are Americans.

The Mexican government itself protested the category, because the entire Southwest used to be part of Mexico, and when it was taken over by the United States, they promised Mexico that the Mexican residents there would be treated as full citizens. Well, at the time, you had to be white to be a citizen. So that's where the whole issue came about of Mexicans, specifically, identifying as legally white but socially not-white.

It worked against them in some ways, because they claimed segregation and discrimination, the parties being accused of discrimination could say, Well, no, you're white. So this history of claiming whiteness has been a strategy that Mexican Americans and other Latino groups have used to try to lobby for acceptance — claiming Americanness, claiming whiteness.

LULAC and the Mexican government successfully had "Mexican" removed from [the census questionnaire]. After 1930, there has never been another Latino group listed as a race on it. In 1970, the Hispanic origin question was first introduced on the Census long form, which is an extended questionnaire that goes out to about one in six households. And then, finally in 1980, the Hispanic identity question appears on all of the forms. It used to come after the race question. They later moved it before the race question because it was one of the most unanswered forms on the census. If you asked people their race, "I'm white or I'm black," and they would get this next question, "are you Hispanic?" They would say "I already answered this," and they would skip it. So that's why we have them the way they are and the way they're ordered.

And importantly, Latinos can be of a variety of racial backgrounds. People can be Afro-Latino and be white and be Latino and there are a whole lot of Latinos who are brown. So there's the issue of not wanting to be racialized, and there's the racial diversity of Latinos themselves.
 
Because the Mexicans claim only 20% of them are and their reputation for the truth is better than yours.
Well, as long as they self-identify, I'm sure it's accurate.

I'm going to self-identify as a 72 year old and start collecting my full social security. :rolleyes:
 
Anecdotal story. My racist ancestors fall under three categories.

1) On my grandmother's (father's mother) side of the family were the ultra wealthy (old wealth). These were the slave owners and political movers and shakers of Virginia.

They are of the Pocahontas Exception clan: racist, unless it (the prestige of being direct descendants of Pocahontas, and therefore a part of the American mythos).

2) The poor white southerners on my grandmother's (mother's mother's side). Generations have grown up beside each other in Whiteville and Elizabethtown. My grandmother joked that she was born, and would die in the same home, but in different counties - due to evolving county lines over some long forgotten dispute.

They were absolutely racist, and would never have considered hispanics to be white, but they also would have placed them above blacks on the "racial hierarchy" that existed in their minds.

3) On my mother's father's side were the new southern wealthy. They retired to a fancy home on figure eight island, but their wealthy went back only a few generations (I'm not actually sure where it originated from).

But, to give you a sense of what they believed, my Aunt Bettie Jo, during one Christmas visit, stated that she "wouldn't ever eat at Taco Bell because Mexicans are dirty." That is not something that she would have said had she viewed them as white. Nevermind the fact that most of the people who worked at Taco Bell at the time were not hispanic, and that there are plenty of other reasons to not eat at Taco Bell, particularly in the late 80s, when their food was of an even lower quality than it is today.

It's a stark reminder that government labels have played an important, but incomplete, role in how race in America has been defined.
 
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