an interesting debate/discussion between James Carville and David Hogg

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heelinhell

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This may not merit its own thread but it is a 45 minute discussion/debate between a Boomer and a young gun. Realizing very few will bother to watch the video, I found it captivating as illustrative of the state of the Democratic Party and its way to move forward. I watched every minute and found the time well spent., and I hope those watch will share thoughts here.

The headline is a bit misleading. The discussion was thoughtful and mutually respectful.

www.rawstory.com

'Win elections!' James Carville snarls as he calls out new Gen Z DNC official

Recently-elected Democratic National Convention Vice Chair David Hogg and veteran Democratic strategist James Carville vented their feud with a heated debate on the Tara Palmeri Show on Wednesday, in which Carville blasted Hogg's plans to encourage primary challenges to certain long-time...
www.rawstory.com www.rawstory.com
 
David Hogg is Vice chair of the Democratic National Committee? I had no idea.

Carville can't beat Will Farrell in a political debate, so I don't expect much from him against Hogg, but I'll watch anyway.
 
ZenMode said:
David Hogg is Vice chair of the Democratic National Committee? I had no idea.

Carville can't beat Will Farrell in a political debate, so I don't expect much from him against Hogg, but I'll watch anyway.
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More of a discussion than a debate about what Dems need to do to win elections...
 
Haven’t watched the video yet, it I did do the quick read on the summary.
I hadn’t realize that Carville had called for a contested convention… and that so did Obama. I guess I wasn’t paying attention. And Carville also called for Biden to announce in 2022 that he would step aside for 2024… but duh, that was an easy call. I was saying that in January of 2021.

Without seeing the entire video, I’m going to side with Carville in that Dems need to beat Pubs, not Dems beating Dems. I’m assuming Hogg wants to win over the young voters and get them to the polls.
Good luck with that. When are young people going to vote en masse? Also, the young male vote has already been sewn up by the pubs for the next couple of generations. Bro culture, Joe Rogan culture, the Adolescence movie culture. The only young vote Hogg and the Dems can muster will be a few females and Mass shooting survivors like himself.

Perhaps I’ll change my tune once I see the entire video, but judging this book by the cover, Hogg would have to be more than persuasive to change my mind.
 
Centerpiece said:
Haven’t watched the video yet, it I did do the quick read on the summary.
I hadn’t realize that Carville had called for a contested convention… and that so did Obama. I guess I wasn’t paying attention. And Carville also called for Biden to announce in 2022 that he would step aside for 2024… but duh, that was an easy call. I was saying that in January of 2021.

Without seeing the entire video, I’m going to side with Carville in that Dems need to beat Pubs, not Dems beating Dems. I’m assuming Hogg wants to win over the young voters and get them to the polls.
Good luck with that. When are young people going to vote en masse? Also, the young male vote has already been sewn up by the pubs for the next couple of generations. Bro culture, Joe Rogan culture, the Adolescence movie culture. The only young vote Hogg and the Dems can muster will be a few females and Mass shooting survivors like himself.

Perhaps I’ll change my tune once I see the entire video, but judging this book by the cover, Hogg would have to be more than persuasive to change my mind.
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Your intuition about the full discussion is spot on. What impressed me is that as the discussion unfolded, the two came more in alignment.
Boomer Carville and 25yo Hogg essentially share the same values but differ on strategic ways to express the values of the Democratic Party.

For me their discussion is much like my debate here with young posters. We share the same values, but my assertion is that we achieve more real results with incremental change that allows the general public to " metabolize" the change vs. demanding/forcing that change be accepted immediately non-stop
 
Centerpiece said:
Haven’t watched the video yet, it I did do the quick read on the summary.
I hadn’t realize that Carville had called for a contested convention… and that so did Obama. I guess I wasn’t paying attention. And Carville also called for Biden to announce in 2022 that he would step aside for 2024… but duh, that was an easy call. I was saying that in January of 2021.

Without seeing the entire video, I’m going to side with Carville in that Dems need to beat Pubs, not Dems beating Dems. I’m assuming Hogg wants to win over the young voters and get them to the polls.
Good luck with that. When are young people going to vote en masse? Also, the young male vote has already been sewn up by the pubs for the next couple of generations. Bro culture, Joe Rogan culture, the Adolescence movie culture. The only young vote Hogg and the Dems can muster will be a few females and Mass shooting survivors like himself.

Perhaps I’ll change my tune once I see the entire video, but judging this book by the cover, Hogg would have to be more than persuasive to change my mind.
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Young males are very very right wing these days.
 
Hogg is basically a male AOC. I think Carville is right (haven’t watched the video)
 
mpaer said:
Don't get me wrong I would take a shot as AOC for POTUS-it is just that could not win at this point........
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Yeah, I was not a big AOC fan when she first came on the political scene as a progressive firebrand, but I think she has matured after entering Congress and realizes that to actually achieve progressive goals requires more than engaging in mere rhetorical polemics.

I can't imagine her being POTUS in my lifetime, but maybe I will live long enough to see her replace Chuck Schumer as a NY Senator.
 
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The toxic masculinity of the bro culture amongst the 13 - 30 year old males leaves Hogg in the minority. He doesn’t stand a chance of gaining any traction for the Dems in that demographic. He needs to listen to Carville.
Younger candidates, yes, but listen to Carville for the most part.
 
Centerpiece said:
The toxic masculinity of the bro culture amongst the 13 - 30 year old males leaves Hogg in the minority. He doesn’t stand a chance of gaining any traction for the Dems in that demographic. He needs to listen to Carville.
Younger candidates, yes, but listen to Carville for the most part.
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I'm reluctant to make a politically incorrect supposition, but I think the toxic masculinity among young males is a reaction in large part to the empowerment of young females.

My guess is that today's young male is intimidated by his female counterpart and seeks a safe space in the manosphere world of folks like Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson, et al

In the short term can Democratic policies overcome this shifting power dynamic between men and women ? I don't think so...unfortunately
 
heelinhell said:
I'm reluctant to make a politically incorrect supposition, but I think the toxic masculinity among young males is a reaction in large part to the empowerment of young females.

My guess is that today's young male is intimidated by his female counterpart and seeks a safe space in the manosphere world of folks like Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson, et al

In the short term can Democratic policies overcome this shifting power dynamic between men and women ? I don't think so...unfortunately
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Agree
 
heelinhell said:
I'm reluctant to make a politically incorrect supposition, but I think the toxic masculinity among young males is a reaction in large part to the empowerment of young females.

My guess is that today's young male is intimidated by his female counterpart and seeks a safe space in the manosphere world of folks like Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson, et al

In the short term can Democratic policies overcome this shifting power dynamic between men and women ? I don't think so...unfortunately
Click to expand...
 
heelinhell said:
So trying to reduce the gist of your link, it seems to be that my supposition is a partial but not complete explanation without the accompanying understanding that wealth or lack thereof is a significant ego wound independent of the male-female power dynamic ?

I've been day drinking since I woke up this morning so I need some help here🥳
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Think that’s a good summary. The young male attack on the advancement of women in society is a byproduct of their position in society or lack thereof.

Previously, young men in America were able to find meaning in various civic organizations, union jobs, etc. As those have declined, wealth accumulation has been placed at the forefront of masculinity.

As capitalism has continued to flounder since the shocks of the 1970s and inequality has grown, there has been an outgrowth of unhealthy expressions of masculinity. Young men are listless from running on a hamster wheel and seeing no results.

As with so many other things: when the mainstream left doesn’t offer answers, the right is more than willing to sell a false answer. They have been on top of this.

People like J.D. Vance understand that capitalism is in crisis and young men must be placated to stabilize the system. The reactionary way to do this is force women out of the workplace and back into the home as a pressure release valve.
 
ZenMode said:
Carville can't beat Will Farrell in a political debate, so I don't expect much from him against Hogg, but I'll watch anyway.
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In a world where we just elected your marmalade messiah, what does that even mean? Trump couldn't win a debate against a middle school debate team member.
 
They both suck. Did not watch. Might watch later. I've seen enough of each of them to have a general idea of where I think it will go
 
I liked when Hogg cited that he wasn't doing anything that other vice chairpersons of the DNC hadn't done before and Carville replied "I don't know what other vice chair's have done, I never gave a shit who the vice chair was, but hey, at least you've elevated the position"...
 
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