Biorhythms for Carolina @Virginia: Post-Game Discussion

[BillOfRights]

The coach is responsible for everything that happens on the floor. Everything.

Players are accountable, too. But at the end of the day, the coach vs. player debate is not helpful. The coach is the one recruiting those players. He is the one mentoring those players. He is the one doing film review with those players. He is the one responsible for identifying and fixing mistakes.

Did you ever notice how Tony Bennet’s players always knew where to be on the floor defensively? It is because he repped the defense repeatedly and made sure the players knew what they were doing.

The coaches can't close out on shooters. The coaches can't communicate on every screen. The coaches can't make free throws or knock down open threes.

Before January first, the players were playing good defense the way the coaches taught it. I don't know if it was a holiday hangover, or what, but the players were not performing as expected. It's up to the coaching staff to fix that, and based off the last two games, I think the coaching staff has helped the players make progress.

If the defense had been poor since the beginning of the season, there would be questions about the problem. Since this is a recent occurrence after fourteen games of good defense, with no obvious coaching changes in scheme, it seems obvious that the problem is the player's not executing.

 

[thebruinbleedstarheelblue]

Since Scheyer took over, he's ended his 3 seasons like this...

2023: 27-9, ACC Champs, NCAAT Round of 32
2024: 27-9, NCAAT Elite 8
2025: 35-4, ACC Champs & Regular Season Champs, Final 4

For this season, dook is currently 18-1 (7-0), the odds-on favorites to win both the regular season and ACC tourney championships, and is roughly a consensus top 5 team in the country.

For the most part, Scheyer has had consistently good to great seasons in Durham, although there has also been disappointments for him, as well - the NCAAT loss in 2023, no titles of any type in 2024, collapsing in the F4 in 2025.

But, as you rightly point out, it's hard to tell how much of that success is due to Scheyer himself and how much is due to the recruiting machine that brings in the talent.

Also any serious person will look at the trend. His ceiling is getting higher and ours is getting lower.

 

[thebruinbleedstarheelblue]

The coaches can't close out on shooters. The coaches can't communicate on every screen. The coaches can't make free throws or knock down open threes.

Before January first, the players were playing good defense the way the coaches taught it. I don't know if it was a holiday hangover, or what, but the players, if we're not performing as expected. It's up to the coaching staff to fix that, and based off the last two games, I think the coaching staff has helped the players make progress.

If the defense had been poor since the beginning of the season, there would be questions about the problem. Since this is a recent occurrence after fourteen games of good defense, with no obvious coaching changes in scheme, it seems obvious that the problem is the player's not executing.

coaches teach closeouts and inspire effort. Coaches also select players who have talent and that they think are coachable.

And of course the team looked better against worse opponents.

 

[thebruinbleedstarheelblue]

With the overwhelming talent advantage they've had that is underachieving.

you could say that about us last year... and recruiting is part of the job.

 

[Bigs23]

Also any serious person will look at the trend. His ceiling is getting higher and ours is getting lower.

Serious people can understand the talent disparity that leads to those results and recognize that not winning a FF game with those stacked lineups says something.

If you traded HD and JS I suspect the results for both programs would be pretty similar to what they were the past 3 1/2 seasons.

 

[NYCBlueBlood]

The coaches can't close out on shooters. The coaches can't communicate on every screen. The coaches can't make free throws or knock down open threes.

Before January first, the players were playing good defense the way the coaches taught it. I don't know if it was a holiday hangover, or what, but the players, if we're not performing as expected. It's up to the coaching staff to fix that, and based off the last two games, I think the coaching staff has helped the players make progress.

If the defense had been poor since the beginning of the season, there would be questions about the problem. Since this is a recent occurrence after fourteen games of good defense, with no obvious coaching changes in scheme, it seems obvious that the problem is the player's not executing.

Our D has been bad since Seth came back. Which is to be expected. You throw a 30+ minute guy into the mix who has no chemistry with the team, it's going to create some problems.

Plying good team D is highly dependent on knowing what the other 4 guys on the court are going to do next, before they do it... it's very different from playing individual D... which is more about effort, focus and tenacity.

Seth coming back was bound to create some problems for a team that spent all of December gelling together, playing pretty good D. The good news is that Seth is a pretty darn good defender. So once the team re-finds its groove, I expect the end product to be an even better defending team than we saw in December.

 

[thebruinbleedstarheelblue]

Are the players not accountable for their effort and performance?

sometimes in a micro level but if it's happening out a lot then that's certainly on the coaching... whether it's how they're being trained, utilized, or evaluated.

 

[thebruinbleedstarheelblue]

Serious people can understand the talent disparity that leads to those results and recognize that not winning a FF game with those stacked lineups says something.

If you traded HD and JS I suspect the results for both programs would be pretty similar to what they were the past 3 1/2 seasons.

The point there is the trend... Duke has always had a lot of talent but he's clearly getting better. Also, he had John Lucas's son(now Miami coach) on his staff out there recruiting... he didn't go to Duke. He didn't fight the GM.

However, Hubert's trend stands alone we don't have to look at Scheyer. The ceiling keeps getting lower. Now we're trying to make the tournament and feel great if we can stay off the bubble all year... we have more resources than 97% of programs out there and a more storied history than 99% of them.

The Vanderbilt coach has gotten better every year. Florida trend it up to its national championship. The Michigan coach is building something out there.

We have more talent than Cal/Stanford/SMU and ignoring the fact that we went from finals to not making the tournament, 1 seed to play-in(gift) is an issue.

 

[superrific]

It is worth noting that Scheyer has a luxury that HD doesn't have this year: a core set of players who have been at Duke multiple years. They have 9 players averaging double digits in minutes. Of them, 5 were on the team last season, including #2-4 in minutes played. #1 in minutes played is a top 3 NBA draft player, and his twin brother is #5.

Now the thing I'd like to point out is that the Boozer twins have a father who played for many years in the NBA. He learned team defense, and I would be surprised if he passed on none of that knowledge to his kids. It's not like MJ or Lebron whose kids grew up while they were playing pro ball. Carlos Boozer has been retired for a decade. It would be really weird for him not to worked with his kids on defense.

Meanwhile, on the UNC side, we have . . . one player in our regular rotation who was here last year.

This isn't a fair comparison of team defense. Of course Duke is going to be better. Notably, in prior seasons, Duke has been poor defensively. You know, when most of the players were in their first years in the program.

You can say "recruiting is the job of the coach" and that's fine. Maybe HD shouldn't have let the roster turn over so much. But that's a different conversation than "Scheyer can coach defense and HD can't"

 

[BillOfRights]

coaches teach closeouts and inspire effort. Coaches also select players who have talent and that they think are coachable.

And of course the team looked better against worse opponents.

Coaches still can't execute. Players have to be accountable.

Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan State and Ohio State are not "worse opponents".

 

[CarolinaFever]

Coaches still can't execute. Players have to be accountable.

Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan State and Ohio State are not "worse opponents".

What's the point of coaches then? If they aren't executing what the coach wants them to do, then it's the coach's responsibility to get them to do it. You don't think the coach is a factor in where talent wants to go play, too?

 

[Centerpiece]

I started a thread weeks ago asking if anybody on this board has ever coached.

What I didn’t divulge is that I have coached - for over 25 years. Middle School and High School (as well as a stint at Club level ball in Europe - football for 2 years and baseball 3 years).

All 25 years was with organized leagues and conferences and I was paid to coach. (I was never some Rec league, daddy-ball little league coach, coaching my kid’s soccer team.)

I’ve been an assistant coach and a head coach. I’ve coached football, baseball and basketball.

What I can tell you from all that experience first hand… it ain’t the X’s and O’s… It’s the Jimmys and Joes.

Some years you’d have all the talent in the world and all you had to do was roll the ball out there and say: “go get ‘‘em boys!” And simply stay out of their way (aside from maybe putting in an inbounds play or two). Those seasons seemed to always end in undefeated conference championships. And we as coaches didn’t really do shit.

But some seasons the cupboard would be bare, and you could literally coach your ass off, trying everything under the sun to no avail.
Changing strategies, changing practice routines, putting in a zone, practicing longer, harder, working on a press break for weeks, switching up defenses, simplifying everything. Sitting the starters and going with the subs, fussing at them, coddling them, begging them, cutting them, throwing them off the team… trying everything. Asking the catcher to pitch and the pitcher to catch. But nothing would ever work. All the new aged X’s and O’s, all the coaching clinics you would attend, calling other coaches and asking for advice. Nothing, absolutely nothing would change the fact that the other teams had better Jimmys and Joes than you did that season.

Some of you seem to forget that the great Roy Williams himself said of his last 3 or 4 years that he was tired of “having to coach effort”. Having to coach toughness. Having to coach “want to”. He was sick and tired of that shit and he quit.

Davis is far from the best coach around, but he’s the one we’ve got. And the players he has had are also far (very far) from the best players around. (How many are in the pros who played for Hubert?).

Yes, the X’s and O’s haven’t always been the best, but neither have the Jimmys and Joes.

That old saying that Bear Bryant could “take hizzin and beat your’n, and he could take your’n and beat hizzin” is total bullshit. And even the guy who came up with that saying knew it.

 

[Bigs23]

The point there is the trend... Duke has always had a lot of talent but he's clearly getting better. Also, he had John Lucas's son(now Miami coach) on his staff out there recruiting... he didn't go to Duke. He didn't fight the GM.

However, Hubert's trend stands alone we don't have to look at Scheyer. The ceiling keeps getting lower. Now we're trying to make the tournament and feel great if we can stay off the bubble all year... we have more resources than 97% of programs out there and a more storied history than 99% of them.

The Vanderbilt coach has gotten better every year. Florida trend it up to its national championship. The Michigan coach is building something out there.

We have more talent than Cal/Stanford/SMU and ignoring the fact that we went from finals to not making the tournament, 1 seed to play-in(gift) is an issue.

Small sample size.

 

[BillOfRights]

"I hate that people try to blame Hubert for our lapses," Caleb Wilson said. "Our coaches are teaching us the right things. It's all about our effort and playing as hard as we can. Coach can only do so much."

 

[donbosco]

I am unconvinced that the post-Covid, NIL, Portal era has evinced any trends yet...

 

[thebruinbleedstarheelblue]

It is worth noting that Scheyer has a luxury that HD doesn't have this year: a core set of players who have been at Duke multiple years. They have 9 players averaging double digits in minutes. Of them, 5 were on the team last season, including #2-4 in minutes played. #1 in minutes played is a top 3 NBA draft player, and his twin brother is #5.

Now the thing I'd like to point out is that the Boozer twins have a father who played for many years in the NBA. He learned team defense, and I would be surprised if he passed on none of that knowledge to his kids. It's not like MJ or Lebron whose kids grew up while they were playing pro ball. Carlos Boozer has been retired for a decade. It would be really weird for him not to worked with his kids on defense.

Meanwhile, on the UNC side, we have . . . one player in our regular rotation who was here last year.

This isn't a fair comparison of team defense. Of course Duke is going to be better. Notably, in prior seasons, Duke has been poor defensively. You know, when most of the players were in their first years in the program.

You can say "recruiting is the job of the coach" and that's fine. Maybe HD shouldn't have let the roster turn over so much. But that's a different conversation than "Scheyer can coach defense and HD can't"

Well keeping players around is also impacted by the success, culture, and role/fit.

 

[Bigs23]

It's easy and convenient to blame coaches, I get that. And of course sometimes me coaches are better than others, no doubt about that.

But, the fellating of Scheyerface and the denigration of Hubert is a bit much, in my opinion.

JS is winning a lot of games with a stacked deck. BFD.

 

[superrific]

To build on Centerpiece's point, I'm not sure people fully appreciate that "knowing where to be" isn't just a coaching issue. It's a player talent.

Look at the recent past in the NBA. Remember teams picking up ancient fossils like 39 year old Kurt Thomas because he would help them defensively in the playoffs? Kurt could barely jump, lol. But he knew where to be, and how to defend the post. That's why he lasted in the league as long as he did.

Look at the best defenders in the NBA today. Guys like Alex Caruso. He was undrafted in 2016. Now he's considered one of the best defensive players in the whole league. Why? Did everyone miss his tremendous athleticism and amazing strength? No. They just couldn't evaluate -- perhaps because it's hard to observe or maybe people weren't looking -- his ability to know where to be at all times. It's his reads.

It's like this in football too. Some QBs always make the right read. Others struggle to identify the defense and make the right decisions. In fact, you could argue that talent was what separates Drake Maye from Mitch Trubisky. It's not the coaches' fault in most situations. It's that "[sport] IQ" is a fundamental quality of sports players.

 

[Bigs23]

Well keeping players around is also impacted by the success, culture, and role/fit.

But mostly the money.

 

[superrific]

Well keeping players around is also impacted by the success, culture, and role/fit.

That's what my last paragraph says. You can blame HD, perhaps, for the success and culture. I have nothing to say about that. It's just an unfair comparison to compare this UNC team with this Duke's team in terms of team defense. The 98 Heels were also really good on defense, despite having maybe one player who was considered a plus defender at his position (VC). They played great team defense, in large measure because the core had been together for many years.