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UNCatTech said:
You know I participated in multiple different types of education for my kids. Public school, private school, home school, a cooperative, a Montessori, paid tutors, etc. Much dictated by my income.

My only goal was the best opportunity for my kids. It had nothing to do with the area or the demographics.

Now that my kids are out of school, I support the best possible public education system possible, because I know how hard it can be on parents.

I don't believe diverting public funds to private schools is the answer. At the same time I have no animosity towards those who can afford private schools and utilize them. I assume their reasoning is the same as mine was.
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I agree - if people can afford private schools, then more power to them. What I object to is diverting more and more money from our increasingly financially-strapped public school system to private schools via vouchers, which as red states use them are dubious in so many ways. For one thing they're not really being used to send kids from public schools to supposedly superior private ones, they're being used by well-to-do parents to pay for their kids tuition at private schools they're already enrolled in. So taxpayers are basically just mostly helping wealthier people send their kids to a private school that they could likely afford already. It's not really helping kids from poorer families make the switch. And many private schools actually raise their tuition to keep these kids out anyway.

And two other big problems with vouchers that have cropped up around the country are that there is often little oversight or regulation in how parents can spend the money, and there are definite and frequent cases of fraud in some red states, such as in Arizona where an investigation by a local TV station revealed that parents were using voucher money to pay for vacations, tickets to Broadway shows, appliances, and all sorts of things other than tuition at their kid's school. And some parents are using vouchers to send their kids to very conservative, fundamentalist Christian schools, and I don't think that taxpayer money should be funding that. All we're doing in these red states is deliberately financially starving public ed and funding a for-profit school system that leaves most families behind because it still won't help them send their kid to a private school (assuming the private school is superior to their local public school, which is a dubious proposition in many cases).
 
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wmheel1287 said:
Unless you think that people with no children should be exempt from funding schools, then your argument that someone should be able to choose what schools to fund for their kids via property taxes makes no sense. Public schools are a shared common expense that the entire community pays into and benefits from. Period. Other schooling options are outside of that context and should be funded outside of that context. The reason that other schooling options are outside of that context is that those schooling options are not available to everyone. Open them to everyone with no applicaiton process and I'm all on board with funding them with public funds...because then they benefit...ya know...the public...
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I agree with you 100%...

but when it comes to folks like ram and callatoroy they do not believe that " Public schools are a shared common expense that the entire community pays into and benefits from. Period. "
 
UNCatTech said:
I believe you can opt to go to different public schools outside district, you can in Ga, you have to provide your personal transportation.

The property taxes thing just doesn't work unless we are sharing the load. We can't exempt people for sending their kids to private school or for not having children in the school system or the system would collapse.

My kids are no longer in school, yet my property taxes go up regularly. Not quite at Buckhead levels, but I'm paying almost $8k. Of which I believe about 40% is for schools.
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Not saying he should get back all that is going to public schools. But a portion is certainly justifiable. My son's tuition was approximately $12,000 a year. There were kids attending who's parents couldn't afford that. Those kids got financial aid / scholarships. So I'm sure a portion of the tuition I paid went to subsidize some of that. No problem as those kids were better off there than in public school. But it isn't out of bounds for me to see some of the tax money I paid into the education system be refunded in the form of a voucher.
 
Callatoroy said:
Not saying he should get back all that is going to public schools. But a portion is certainly justifiable. My son's tuition was approximately $12,000 a year. There were kids attending who's parents couldn't afford that. Those kids got financial aid / scholarships. So I'm sure a portion of the tuition I paid went to subsidize some of that. No problem as those kids were better off there than in public school. But it isn't out of bounds for me to see some of the tax money I paid into the education system be refunded in the form of a voucher.
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So again, by the same measure, is it "out of bounds" for the childless to expect a refund of some of the money they pay into the education system?
 
Mulberry Heel said:
I agree - if people can afford private schools, then more power to them. What I object to is diverting more and more money from our increasingly financially-strapped public school system to private schools via vouchers, which as red states use them are dubious in so many ways. For one thing they're not really being used to send kids from public schools to supposedly superior private ones, they're being used by well-to-do parents to pay for their kids tuition at private schools they're already enrolled in. So taxpayers are basically just mostly helping wealthier people send their kids to a private school that they could likely afford already. It's not really helping kids from poorer families make the switch. And many private schools actually raise their tuition to keep these kids out anyway.

And two other big problems with vouchers that have cropped up around the country are that there is often little oversight or regulation in how parents can spend the money, and there are definite and frequent cases of fraud in some red states, such as in Arizona where an investigation by a local TV station revealed that parents were using voucher money to pay for vacations, tickets to Broadway shows, appliances, and all sorts of things other than tuition at their kid's school. And some parents are using vouchers to send their kids to very conservative, fundamentalist Christian schools, and I don't think that taxpayer money should be funding that. All we're doing in these red states is deliberately financially starving public ed and funding a for-profit school system that leaves most families behind because it still won't help them send their kid to a private school (assuming the private school is superior to their local public school, which is a dubious proposition in many cases).
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Wait, you don't think tax / voucher money should be used for parents to send kids to conservative, fundamentalist Christian schools but you have a problem if I don't want tax money going to support a liberal biased NPR or for abortions? The absolute definition of hypocrisy.
 
Callatoroy said:
Wait, you don't think tax / voucher money should be used for parents to send kids to conservative, fundamentalist Christian schools but you have a problem if I don't want tax money going to support a liberal biased NPR or for abortions? The absolute definition of hypocrisy.
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Conservative fundamentalist Christians are antithetical to American values. They are against personal freedom, democracy, equality, science and history. They put worship of authority above the will of the people.

Even worse, their prosperity gospel, racism and chase after temporal power is a disgrace to the man and book they pay lip service to. They should have their tax exempt status lifted.
 
lawtig02 said:
I try to stay out of education discussions because my views are nuanced and I have no idea what's the best path forward, but I do know with 100% certainty this statement is not true, at least as it relates to the productive potential of American children.
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But it certainly is true with adults in charge of those schools while at school.
 
Callatoroy said:
Maybe not. Do you think it is?
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I think it is totally out of bounds. I'm consistent in that i believe every member of society should participate in the burden of offering a free public education for every child. I believe those funds should be spent on schools that have open enrollment opportunities for every child to equally participate.
 
lawtig02 said:
I don't think this statement is comprehensible, but if I'm understanding it, are you suggesting the people running public schools are subpar compared with other educators? If so, I couldn't disagree more strongly.
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Yeah, I also had no idea what that statement meant. I read it 4 times in the context of the original "cream rises to the top" post and still couldn't come up with the intent.
 
wmheel1287 said:
Yeah, I also had no idea what that statement meant. I read it 4 times in the context of the original "cream rises to the top" post and still couldn't come up with the intent.
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In reality public schools get better the better teachers, admin, support staff, etc.

Only the most expensive, elite private schools are competitive and those are more about who attends than who works there.
Most private schools are not on par with the public schools
 
JCTarheel82 said:
This is certainly the case for my neighborhood. The only household I'm aware of that sends their kids to private school is MAGA.
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I disagree with wmheel’s statement. It’s not that way where I live. And the decision to send one’s kids to private school is based on many reasons having nothing to do with classism.
 
heelinhell said:
I agree with you 100%...

but when it comes to folks like ram and callatoroy they do not believe that " Public schools are a shared common expense that the entire community pays into and benefits from. Period. "
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Folks like me believe that taxes continue to go up but results don't improve proportionally. It's far beyond time to overhaul a broken system.
 
Callatoroy said:
Not saying he should get back all that is going to public schools. But a portion is certainly justifiable. My son's tuition was approximately $12,000 a year. There were kids attending who's parents couldn't afford that. Those kids got financial aid / scholarships. So I'm sure a portion of the tuition I paid went to subsidize some of that. No problem as those kids were better off there than in public school. But it isn't out of bounds for me to see some of the tax money I paid into the education system be refunded in the form of a voucher.
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I don't agree.

If a voucher is a return of funds paid in, then it's only going to be available for those who can afford to help with public schools as well as fund their own children's education.

Also, it simply isn't going to work if we make exceptions to those who are funding schools.

If a private school chooses to give financial aid and scholarships, that's great.

I also find it interesting that the county I live in has schools rated in the top 1% in the US. a few counties south isn't in the top 100 in the state. The glaring difference, you ask? The income of the parents.

I hope that your children benefited greatly from their educational experiences.
 
Callatoroy said:
Wait, you don't think tax / voucher money should be used for parents to send kids to conservative, fundamentalist Christian schools but you have a problem if I don't want tax money going to support a liberal biased NPR or for abortions? The absolute definition of hypocrisy.
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Do you really see those as equal?

In my opinion, I don't believe any school should be politically motivated. We simply should teach and not indoctrinate. I have the same issue with schools of a specific religion, I'm all for teaching world religions or history of religions, but not the indoctrination. Same for liberal indoctrination, I don't believe schools should do this to begin with.

If a school is specifically indoctrinating and not teaching a well rounded, diverse, objective course load, then they should not qualify for any government assistance.

I just don't see that as the same as NPR which has a distinctly different purpose.
 
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