Center-Left Betrayal

[Batt Boy]

A few weeks old, but good read,

"The most important reason is that the center-left, from Bill Clinton to Tony Blair and Gerhard Schröder, ideologically shifted away from policies that were favoring labor."

Star Economist Acemoglu Discusses Trump: "It's Likely To Be Much Worse Now Than Eight Years Ago"

The U.S. economist Daron Acemoglu accuses center-left parties of having betrayed the interests of their core supporters. And warns that if Trump wins the election this fall, the situation could become worse than even during his first term in office.

www.spiegel.de

 

[uncgriff]

wonder how you feel about the American betrayal of Jan 6, ongoing election denial, active interference of voting rights and fake elector schemes

 

[Batt Boy]

wonder how you feel about the American betrayal of Jan 6, ongoing election denial, active interference of voting rights and fake elector schemes

Jan6 - traitors: hope they languish in prison but I fear Bunker boy will pardon them all
election denial: imbeciles. same type who believe the world is flat, the moon landing were faked, etc. sad their votes count as much as mine.
voting interference/fake electors: traitors. hope they get justice served to them.

 

[BlooVooDoo]

I’d argue American labor chose conservative social policy (god, guns and gays) over liberal labor policy as their primary concern.

 

[4thgenheel]

what @bluevoodoo said and also ignorance/misinformation moreso than "betrayal."

"That's a bit of a mystery, because Biden's domestic agenda has been a huge success. He has passed landmark legislation. And he has been the most pro-worker president in recent US history, supporting unions, higher minimum wages and worker protections, in addition to prioritizing job creation. But instead, people reproach him for his immigration policy."

 

[rodoheel]

I’d argue American labor chose conservative social policy (god, guns and gays) over liberal labor policy as their primary concern.

Yeah I would agree with this too. A large chunk of the working class chose the culture war over political and economic issues.

Also, I understand the frustration in many places that free trade policies and our integration into the global economy killed American manufacturing. But that's how things go; the world changes. And the reality is that the global economy gives many Americans the opportunity for new jobs that are safer, better paying, and less physically demanding. It's a shame that so many people in middle America have been brainwashed into making common cause with the billionaires who lie about "bringing back manufacturing jobs" so they can win support in their mission to roll back regulations and laws meant to protect workers from exploitation. So many people literally cheering their own demise.

 

[TarSpiel]

Someone could make a killing explaining unions to Gen Z...those kids will eat it up.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

I’d argue American labor chose conservative social policy (god, guns and gays) over liberal labor policy as their primary concern.

I sympathize with that view but I think its more than that. Clinton and the New Democrats could have fought back for the unions and other worker friendly policies but they didn't so they could get their free trade policies in place, which the unions opposed. Then people are presented with a party that doesn't support worker friendly policies but does support social policies they like or a party that doesn't support worker-friendly policies and also doesn't support social policies they like.

I think Germany and Scandinavia did it better than the US and the UK. Germany supported free trade but also supported the unions. Reagan and Thatcher felt like supporting the unions would put them at a severe competitive disadvantage so they started killing them off. The mean worker in Germany is better off.

 

[Paine]

Some of y’all need to learn that attacks on the Democratic Party, especially their actions in the past, don’t mean that the person making the attack is a Republican.

If y’all don’t understand how the Democratic Party has fucked workers since Jimmy Carter, please open a history book.

Neoliberalism has been a problem for both parties. It was a global phenomenon. There’s a reason it’s unraveling across the globe right now.

 

[UNCatTech]

I’d argue American labor chose conservative social policy (god, guns and gays) over liberal labor policy as their primary concern.

Which makes no sense as the right doesn't support labor.

Even though I heard a historian give trump some credit for changing NAFTA, but he did labor no other favors and was ready to pass a national "right to work" bill if sent to him.

 

[UNCatTech]

I sympathize with that view but I think its more than that. Clinton and the New Democrats could have fought back for the unions and other worker friendly policies but they didn't so they could get their free trade policies in place, which the unions opposed. Then people are presented with a party that doesn't support worker friendly policies but does support social policies they like or a party that doesn't support worker-friendly policies and also doesn't support social policies they like.

Are you referring to NAFTA, which was signed by Clinton, but architected by republicans?

 

[CallMeTyler]

I sympathize with that view but I think its more than that. Clinton and the New Democrats could have fought back for the unions and other worker friendly policies but they didn't so they could get their free trade policies in place, which the unions opposed. Then people are presented with a party that doesn't support worker friendly policies but does support social policies they like or a party that doesn't support worker-friendly policies and also doesn't support social policies they like.

I think Germany and Scandinavia did it better than the US and the UK. Germany supported free trade but also supported the unions. Reagan and Thatcher felt like supporting the unions would put them at a severe competitive disadvantage so they started killing them off. The mean worker in Germany is better off.

Those trade policies are what allow a vast number of Americans to buy goods and services at much lower costs. Buying power increased, access to a broader range of goods, and greater economic development due to the opening/expansion of global markets

Ex. Wal Mart exists solely because of free trade. They also, unsurprisingly, are the top employer throughout much of the south. They offer employment and access to cheap goods. We're talking key GOP states where portions of the population were upended from free trade development. Now, we could argue against a behemoth like Wal Mart as a sign of poor economic policy, but if you removed the benefits that allowed them to prosper, the majority of those relying on big box retail would suffer.

Similar pain points existed during the industrial revolution. Probably will feel those same shifts when we pivot to robotics/AI.

 

[Paine]

Those trade policies are what allow a vast number of Americans to buy goods and services at much lower costs. Buying power increased, access to a broader range of goods, and greater economic development due to the opening/expansion of global markets

Ex. Wal Mart exists solely because of free trade. They also, unsurprisingly, are the top employer throughout much of the south. They offer employment and access to cheap goods. We're talking key GOP states where portions of the population were upended from free trade development. Now, we could argue against a behemoth like Wal Mart as a sign of poor economic policy, but if you removed the benefits that allowed them to prosper, the majority of those relying on big box retail would suffer.

Similar pain points existed during the industrial revolution. Probably will feel those same shifts when we pivot to robotics/AI.

I think the issue with this analysis is that it treats these changes as inevitable. The policies that allowed WalMart to rise and Americans to have access to more goods, at what cost did those policies come in other areas?

Has it been good to have Amazon and WalMart absolutely decimate small businesses?

Has that been good for Americans’ buying power? What about their sense of self and community?

There are other paths before us at all times. The policy choices we make today have drastic implications for the future world that we inhabit.

The dogmatic embrace of free trade and neoliberalism in the 1980s has had dire consequences for the health of the climate and the health of the global working class.

 

[UNCatTech]

Those trade policies are what allow a vast number of Americans to buy goods and services at much lower costs. Buying power increased, access to a broader range of goods, and greater economic development due to the opening/expansion of global markets

Ex. Wal Mart exists solely because of free trade. They also, unsurprisingly, are the top employer throughout much of the south. They offer employment and access to cheap goods. We're talking key GOP states where portions of the population were upended from free trade development. Now, we could argue against a behemoth like Wal Mart as a sign of poor economic policy, but if you removed the benefits that allowed them to prosper, the majority of those relying on big box retail would suffer.

Similar pain points existed during the industrial revolution. Probably will feel those same shifts when we pivot to robotics/AI.

The lower prices from global free trade came with a cost. US manufacturing jobs.

 

[rodoheel]

Some of y’all need to learn that attacks on the Democratic Party, especially their actions in the past, don’t mean that the person making the attack is a Republican.

If y’all don’t understand how the Democratic Party has fucked workers since Jimmy Carter, please open a history book.

Neoliberalism has been a problem for both parties. It was a global phenomenon. There’s a reason it’s unraveling across the globe right now.

I think the first sentence is absolutely right, and there are real reasons for workers to be frustrated with historic Democratic policies (especially free trade), even though I would argue those criticisms fail to acknowledge the larger benefits of things like free trade.. As for neoliberalism "unraveling" though, I hope all the workers drifting to right-wing politics aren't going to be surprised when they realize that those right-wing political leaders see them as nothing more than drones to be worked into the ground. Critique the US Democratic Party, or neoliberalism generally, if you want, but the people pushing a lot of those critiques the hardest are nothing more than opportunists who are relishing the opportunity to crush labor unions and pay workers subsistence wages all over the globe. If US workers think that making the US more like Hungary and Russia is going to be great for the working class, they're going to be sorely disappointed.

 

[Paine]

I think the first sentence is absolutely right, and there are real reasons for workers to be frustrated with historic Democratic policies (especially free trade), even though I would argue those criticisms fail to acknowledge the larger benefits of things like free trade.. As for neoliberalism "unraveling" though, I hope all the workers drifting to right-wing politics aren't going to be surprised when they realize that those right-wing political leaders see them as nothing more than drones to be worked into the ground. Critique the US Democratic Party, or neoliberalism generally, if you want, but the people pushing a lot of those critiques the hardest are nothing more than opportunists who are relishing the opportunity to crush labor unions and pay workers subsistence wages all over the globe. If US workers think that making the US more like Hungary and Russia is going to be great for the working class, they're going to be sorely disappointed.

We’re in 100% agreement. My entire issue with the Democratic Party of Clinton, Obama, etc. is that it gives oxygen for the right wing to portray themselves as pro worker.

If the Democratic Party was genuinely pro worker, it would be nigh impossible for the right wing to capitalize on the real anguish felt by working people across the planet.

Unfortunately, most real left wing labor parties have been completely decimated by the neoliberal turn.

It was a lot easier here, since the Democratic Party has almost always been controlled by either Southern reactionaries or corporatists. But we also saw what Blair did to an actual labor party in the UK.

 

[RockyMtnHoo]

Americans want everything cheap, but many don’t like the path it took/takes to get there.

Slightly different topic, but if folks want to complain about housing prices, while also wanting to shut the doors to undocumented workers…let’s see how much that house price increases when built by American workers, who want health insurance, higher wages, PTO, and an 8 hour work day.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

Are you referring to NAFTA, which was signed by Clinton, but architected by republicans?

That was one of the biggest policies but it wasn't the only one. Free trade was growing before Clinton and after Clinton. And I support free trade but I don't support the policies that killed the unions.

 

[rodoheel]

The lower prices from global free trade came with a cost. US manufacturing jobs.

Yes and the people who think you can have both robust American manufacturing and low prices in the modern world are kidding themselves. That is what Trump and his allies are promising - we can bring back manufacturing jobs with protectionist trade policies AND lower prices at the same time. This is just like what they always pitch with tax cuts - "We can cut taxes AND increase government revenues because everything will be so great!" For all the criticism leftists get (much of it legitimate) about being too naive and idealistic with their policy proposals, the current right-wingers are just as bad about making absurd promises about how their economic policies will somehow deliver a perfect economy where everything is great.

I'm not saying Democratic economic policies are perfect by any stretch, but at least they try to more honestly grapple with the delicate balancing act that goes into trying to balance the many competing priorities and issues that fall under the umbrella of "the economy." Conservatives, on the other hand, are out here pushing the economic agenda of the wealthiest people in the world (eliminate regulations, eliminate unions, don't raise the minimum wage, let us treat workers like mindless drones) and pitching it as good for the working class.

 

[Mulberry Heel]

Which makes no sense as the right doesn't support labor.

Even though I heard a historian give trump some credit for changing NAFTA, but he did labor no other favors and was ready to pass a national "right to work" bill if sent to him.

It's an older book (published 2004), but "What's the Matter with Kansas? How Conservatives Won the Heart of America" offers a great analysis and description of how conservatives won the votes of working-class whites by emphasizing social and cultural issues like abortion and gun rights while still pushing reactionary economic policies.