Charlie Kirk as a martyr

[rodoheel]

For many young folks on the Right, 9/10 will be their 9/11.

I think many of you here (understandably since Kirk wasn't in your social media feed) grossly underestimate the power, influence and reach of Charlie Kirk. He mobilized the youth on college campuses and on social media and I would argue, played a huge role in Trump winning the under 30 vote (particularly among young men). Kirk wasn't a right wing provocateur; instead, he was famous for showing up on campuses with a smile and politely engaging with liberals in a friendly manner. Kirk also played a role in the return of young men to church which has been quantified. There was/is no one equivalent on the Left.

Kirk will be hard/impossible to replace.

I don't think anyone here underestimates Kirk's power, influence, and reach. He was obviously one of the leading MAGA figures, and was very close with several members of the Trump organization. He would not have risen to where he got without being intelligent and charismatic.

But I have to roll my eyes at this line: "Kirk wasn't a right wing provocateur; instead, he was famous for showing up on campuses with a smile and politely engaging with liberals in a friendly manner." Kirk's fame and career were built on antagonizing "angry liberals" so that he could create clips of them that triggered conservatives over how "crazy" and "extreme" liberals are. He was one of the earliest adopters and best employers of the modern, algorithm-friendly "ragebaiting" culture. He was much more intelligent and urbane than, say, Chaya Raichik, who employs a much cruder and more vicious version of the formula, and a much more serious political operative as a result, but his entire career and schtick were built on dividing people, not bringing them together. And of course, he devoted most of his time and energy over the last 8-9 years to supporting Donald Trump's authoritarian movement, while fully endorsing the worst of Trump's falsehoods, like CO-19 conspiracy theories, the 2020 election "Big Lie" and the J6 assault on the Capitol.

So, while his death is tragic, the reality is that Kirk had a major role in creating the current superheated political culture and rhetoric that many on the right are now blaming for his death. He should not have been killed, and his death will definitely be a negative thing for the country, but the reality is that he rose to fame, fortune, and power through making us all a little angrier at each other.

 

[CFordUNC]

Man alive, who knew!? All you have to do is show up with a smile and be polite when you’re telling people that gay people should not exist, that women should not be allowed to vote, that husbands should dominate wives, and that innocent kindergartners getting turned into target practice every other week in our country is a reasonable price to pay for having the second amendment!

 

[rodoheel]

In either of your examples, wouldn't he still fit the definition of a martyr? In other words, let's say that it was a Nick Fuentes supporter who killed him because he didn't hate Jews enough. That would still be a martyr, right?

I think you could debate whether that would really make him a martyr, but the larger point is that the two examples I gave are not the only two options. My point was more about it not being clear, even if he is a martyr, what exactly he is a martyr for.

 

[korgguy1971]

Man alive, who knew!? All you have to do is show up with a smile and be polite when you’re telling people that gay people should not exist, that women should not be allowed to vote, that husbands should dominate wives, and that innocent kindergartners getting turned into target practice every other week in our country is a reasonable price to pay for having the second amendment!

One may smile and smile, and be a villain.

 

[CFordUNC]

I don't think anyone here underestimates Kirk's power, influence, and reach. He was obviously one of the leading MAGA figures, and was very close with several members of the Trump organization. He would not have risen to where he got without being intelligent and charismatic.

But I have to roll my eyes at this line: "Kirk wasn't a right wing provocateur; instead, he was famous for showing up on campuses with a smile and politely engaging with liberals in a friendly manner." Kirk's fame and career were built on antagonizing "angry liberals" so that he could create clips of them that triggered conservatives over how "crazy" and "extreme" liberals are. He was one of the earliest adopters and best employers of the modern, algorithm-friendly "ragebaiting" culture. He was much more intelligent and urbane than, say, Chaya Raichik, who employs a much cruder and more vicious version of the formula, and a much more serious political operative as a result, but his entire career and schtick were built on dividing people, not bringing them together. And of course, he devoted most of his time and energy over the last 8-9 years to supporting Donald Trump's authoritarian movement, while fully endorsing the worst of Trump's falsehoods, like CO-19 conspiracy theories, the 2020 election "Big Lie" and the J6 assault on the Capitol.

So, while his death is tragic, the reality is that Kirk had a major role in creating the current superheated political culture and rhetoric that many on the right are now blaming for his death. He should not have been killed, and his death will definitely be a negative thing for the country, but the reality is that he rose to fame, fortune, and power through making us all a little angrier at each other.

In other words, it’s all fun and games until the proverbial rabbit grabs the gun.

Kirk should be mourned for the fact that he is a young life needlessly and senselessly extinguished far too soon, and for leaving behind young children. At the same time, he should be criticized for platforming abhorrent views, and for ultimately playing an unwitting role in his own demise by purposefully making a living out of inflaming and dividing Americans.

 

[BlooVooDoo]

Seems pretty clear that he was a martyr, based on the common definitions of the word.

Voluntary sacrifice is the phrase you seem to be overlooking. He had security to protect himself from college students. If he actually thought someone would ever take a shot at him, his ass would have been podcasting about the evils of vaccines, women going to college or having jobs, or the myriad tragedies of the Civil Rights Act.

 

[Ramrouser]

I simply made a statement of fact. I'm not saying 9/10 compares to 9/11 but I am saying it's very impactful to conservative Gen Zers. Many on this board are now just discovering the power and influence of Kirk for the under 30 crowd. Gen Z have no personal reference or connection to 9/11 (unless their family was directly impacted) so it might as well be Pearl Harbor or Lincoln's assassination.

 

[4thgenheel]

For many young folks on the Right, 9/10 will be their 9/11.

I think many of you here (understandably since Kirk wasn't in your social media feed) grossly underestimate the power, influence and reach of Charlie Kirk. He mobilized the youth on college campuses and on social media and I would argue, played a huge role in Trump winning the under 30 vote (particularly among young men). Kirk wasn't a right wing provocateur; instead, he was famous for showing up on campuses with a smile and politely engaging with liberals in a friendly manner. Kirk also played a role in the return of young men to church which has been quantified. There was/is no one equivalent on the Left.

Kirk will be hard/impossible to replace.

 

[BlooVooDoo]

I've never seen someone so loudly wrong about virtually everything.

We all have our gifts.

 

[rodoheel]

By the way, @Ramrouser, when Nancy Pelosi's husband Paul was beaten within an inch of his life by a crazy right-wing guy who was looking for Nancy Pelosi, this is how Charlie Kirk reacted: by claiming that any connection between the attack and right-wing rhetoric was absurd and saying that a "Patriot" should bail the attacker out.

Charlie Kirk Says a 'Patriot' Should Bail Out Alleged Paul Pelosi Attacker

Charlie Kirk wants a "patriot" to bail the man who allegedly beat Paul Pelosi with a hammer out of jail.

www.rollingstone.com

Yeah, this is the saintly "non-provocateur" you were describing.

 

[MOUNTAINH33L]

so it might as well be Pearl Harbor or Lincoln's assassination.

 

[UNCMSinLS]

What on earth is the right wing going to do if it turns out that the shooter was motivated not by leftist ideology but rather by an even more extreme far right ideology than the one Kirk espoused? Obviously, either way, it’s horrific and abhorrent. I just mean that the entire right wing media ecosystem has already gone all in on declaring war on the entire liberal apparatus in this country, what is going to happen if it turns out that the shooter doesn’t have the ideological motivations that they’ve already decided he has without him even having been caught yet?

What if it was an inside job by a MAGA/FBI/Trump-hired assassin to divert people's attention from Epstein, ICE, occupations of American cities, Israel, Russia, inflation, unemployment, an ever-shittier economy, a corrupt Supreme Court, etc., etc., etc.? Remember, Fred Trump raised his kids to be "killers".

Just sayin'. Just askin' questions. Just doin' my own research.

 

[CFordUNC]

I simply made a statement of fact. I'm not saying 9/10 compares to 9/11 but I am saying it's very impactful to conservative Gen Zers. Many on this board are now just discovering the power and influence of Kirk for the under 30 crowd. Gen Z have no personal reference or connection to 9/11 (unless their family was directly impacted) so it might as well be Pearl Harbor or Lincoln's assassination.

hahahaha buddy, no. No. No. You made a statement of opinion. Your opinion. Not a statement of fact. It is most certainly not a fact that the death of a conservative podcast is going to reverberate in the same manner as a horrific terrorist attack on the United States. You may think that it will, you may even hope that it will. It is still just your opinion – an an absolutely insane one at that, but certainly your right and prerogative to hold it!

 

[UNCMSinLS]

Yeah the women, especially young women, coming out of the woodwork is surprising to me. Kirk was very much anti women’s rights and spoke openly about it all the time. Recently he said if his daughter was raped that she would still have to have the baby and also said that Taylor swift should submit to her new husband.

Kirk stands for white men and white men only so to see so many young women coming out as supporters is bizarre to me

Maybe he was a "cute" guy. Women have become more baffling to me after their collective reaction to Dobbs in the 2024 election.

Ladies of the board, care to comment?

 

[UNCBAdookJD]

What on earth is the right wing going to do if it turns out that the shooter was motivated not by leftist ideology but rather by an even more extreme far right ideology than the one Kirk espoused? Obviously, either way, it’s horrific and abhorrent. I just mean that the entire right wing media ecosystem has already gone all in on declaring war on the entire liberal apparatus in this country, what is going to happen if it turns out that the shooter doesn’t have the ideological motivations that they’ve already decided he has without him even having been caught yet?

They will simply call it fake news and then stop talking about it. See their ridiculous crap with the Melissa Hortman assassination where they claimed it was a leftwinger until it was undeniable that it was a rightwing Christian nationalist and then they just refused to acknowledge that it ever even happened. Same with the first Trump assassination attempt. They wanted to go to war with the left over that until it came out that he was a registered Republican who wore MAGA hats and spouted red pilled incel crap, but ultimately had a death wish and wanted to go out being infamous.

 

[rodoheel]

Hey @Ramrouser here is Charlie Kirk saying that "the Democrat Party supports everything that God hates" and urging pastors to say that to their congregation in sermons:



Not a provocateur, right? Certainly not someone who has contributed to inflammatory political rhetoric in our country?

 

[UNCMSinLS]

By the way, @Ramrouser, when Nancy Pelosi's husband Paul was beaten within an inch of his life by a crazy right-wing guy who was looking for Nancy Pelosi, this is how Charlie Kirk reacted: by claiming that any connection between the attack and right-wing rhetoric was absurd and saying that a "Patriot" should bail the attacker out.

Charlie Kirk Says a 'Patriot' Should Bail Out Alleged Paul Pelosi Attacker

Charlie Kirk wants a "patriot" to bail the man who allegedly beat Paul Pelosi with a hammer out of jail.

www.rollingstone.com

Yeah, this is the saintly "non-provocateur" you were describing.

I missed your previous post because you must have been responding to a Super Ignored chud. I saw it in a quote from CFord.

My response - an enthusiastic thumbs up. Bravo!

 

[JCTarheel82]

They will simply call it fake news and then stop talking about it. See their ridiculous crap with the Melissa Hortman assassination where they claimed it was a leftwinger until it was undeniable that it was a rightwing Christian nationalist and then they just refused to acknowledge that it ever even happened. Same with the first Trump assassination attempt. They wanted to go to war with the left over that until it came out that he was a registered Republican who wore MAGA hats and spouted red pilled incel crap, but ultimately had a death wish and wanted to go out being infamous.

For the record, MAGA still believes both of these incidents were carried out by leftists, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, simply because it's what they want to be true. There are multiple examples of this on the old ZZL in the past 24 hours.

 

[dukeman92]

For many young folks on the Right, 9/10 will be their 9/11.

What's the matter Ram? Did you think Zen was lonely under that bridge?

 

[superrific]

By the way, @Ramrouser, when Nancy Pelosi's husband Paul was beaten within an inch of his life by a crazy right-wing guy who was looking for Nancy Pelosi, this is how Charlie Kirk reacted: by claiming that any connection between the attack and right-wing rhetoric was absurd and saying that a "Patriot" should bail the attacker out.

Charlie Kirk Says a 'Patriot' Should Bail Out Alleged Paul Pelosi Attacker

Charlie Kirk wants a "patriot" to bail the man who allegedly beat Paul Pelosi with a hammer out of jail.

www.rollingstone.com

Yeah, this is the saintly "non-provocateur" you were describing.

exactly. This and this alone needs to be the message from the left. His shooting was merely downstream from his own actions. The right is complaining that the boomerang they threw has come back.