Charlie Kirk shot and killed at Utah rally.

Callatoroy said:
I was specifically referring to using personal insults and insulting slang. Ram doesn’t usually attack individual posters. Forget this thread, just pay attention to how threads evolve. Just saying it can get frustrating when you start off on a topic where you are in a hole to begin with due to the sheer number of people who immediately disagree with you before ever making the first post. Sometimes that frustration gets away from you.

Thanks for the Reddit suggestion. I would love to find a board driven by objective political discussion if that exists. Have less desire to be on a right wing zzl board than this version. I don’t need 99% of the participants to agree with me or tell me im right. I already know that :p
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And I hear all that. I dont call for people to be banned. Like...ever. However, he's crossed the line into the kind of stuff that is going to get people killed, beaten, etc. This push to try to turn this murderer into someone transsexual or dating a transsexual as a pretext to invent a motive is dangerous in the extreme. He started in on it from the beginning, then insisted he never said that, and now has returned to absolute insistence that its absolutely trans motivated.

People that do that with no self awareness of the violence they are inviting against others just can't be part of civil (or even rough edged) discourse.

Honestly at this point he probably shouldn't be banned but Im surely not going to engage with him and risk furthering the kind of threat to people he does.
 
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I’ve been fairly impressed with how Cox has handled this situation. He seems like a reasonable, thoughtful person. But even he is completely gaslighting us to cover up for the inexcusable and extraordinarily reckless and dangerous statements that keep flowing from national GOP leaders on a minute by minute basis.
 
lawtig02 said:
I’ve been fairly impressed with how Cox has handled this situation. He seems like a reasonable, thoughtful person. But even he is completely gaslighting us to cover up for the inexcusable and extraordinarily reckless and dangerous statements that keep flowing from national GOP leaders on a minute by minute basis.
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I will repost my thoughts on the Utah governor’s performance from the other thread….

I thought it was very strange that the governor was the primary speaker at all of those press conferences. Typically a governor (or mayor, or President, or whatever senior executive is present) will offer their concerns and condolences and turn the podium over to the police chief (or fire chief, or FBI AIC, or FEMA official, etc) to discuss details and progress of an investigation.

I felt the governor being the primary spokesperson from the first press conference indicated an immediate political weaponization of this event from the get-go. That feeling was reinforced by the governor’s “analysis” of selected bits of alleged evidence. I was shocked when some people were saying how Utah’s governor acquitted himself well during this “crisis” simply because he wasn’t as crass as Donald Trump, while being every bit as partisan as Trump.
 
farce© said:
I will repost my thoughts on the Utah governor’s performance from the other thread….

I thought it was very strange that the governor was the primary speaker at all of those press conferences. Typically a governor (or mayor, or President, or whatever senior executive is present) will offer their concerns and condolences and turn the podium over to the police chief (or fire chief, or FBI AIC, or FEMA official, etc) to discuss details and progress of an investigation.

I felt the governor being the primary spokesperson from the first press conference indicated an immediate political weaponization of this event from the get-go. That feeling was reinforced by the governor’s “analysis” of selected bits of alleged evidence. I was shocked when some people were saying how Utah’s governor acquitted himself well during this “crisis” simply because he wasn’t as crass as Donald Trump, while being every bit as partisan as Trump.
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Fair enough. At least he’s calling for peace and restraint and not casting wide blame on his enemies while absolving his side. Unlike literally everyone in the Trump administration. But I agree that’s a low bar.
 
lawtig02 said:
I’ve been fairly impressed with how Cox has handled this situation. He seems like a reasonable, thoughtful person. But even he is completely gaslighting us to cover up for the inexcusable and extraordinarily reckless and dangerous statements that keep flowing from national GOP leaders on a minute by minute basis.
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it's sad if the absolute best we can expect from a "reasonable, thoughtful" Pub is essentially a bosiding, performative rendition of a decent politician due to anything more humane being used against them by the MAGA right.
 
SnoopRob said:
it's sad if the absolute best we can expect from a "reasonable, thoughtful" Pub is essentially a bosiding, performative rendition of a decent politician due to anything more humane being used against them by the MAGA right.
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Agree. But it is.
 
One more comment on Cox. At a very high level, I think the two major forces of destruction and dysfunction in America today are (1) social media, and (2) the incessant stream of divisive, irresponsible rhetoric from GOP leadership. I appreciate that Cox is calling out the first. I find it sad and a little pathetic he’s not willing to call out the second, but I’ll give him a D- for at least not blaming the left alone as that GOP leadership has done.
 
SnoopRob said:
it's sad if the absolute best we can expect from a "reasonable, thoughtful" Pub is essentially a bosiding, performative rendition of a decent politician due to anything more humane being used against them by the MAGA right.
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It is sad that we shouldn't expect any honest acknowledgement of the role of Dems in our current political violence situation, despite the fact that much of the fear-mongering is coming from Dems and much of the violence is perpitrated by Dems.
 
thebruinbleedstarheelblue said:
Cancel culture and wokeness.

These people have a different idea than her and she’s trying to get them fired and quiet their voices.

Do our right wing posters support this?
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I think many on the right see this as "being bitten by the mouth you fed".

I generally agree.

I've never had a huge issue, in principle, with people being fired for idiotic things they say in public, when those people are tied back to their employer.

There are exceptions. I didn't agree with Netflix' Jonathan Friedland being fired, but when people say blatantly racist/anti-Semitic, etc things in public, you take the risk.

No idea if this is real, but:

 


The cooperation of the roommate has been consistently reported. But it sounds like someone in the FBI or other (federal?) law enforcement is leaking that they are seeking to make some sort of federal conspiracy case targeting pro-transgender and other left wing groups:









Cochran argues that the feds are trying to do several things at once — convert this to a federal crime for DOJ to prosecute and seek the death penalty, navigate so that if the federal nexus (hate crime or RICO) fails it doesn’t create a double jeopardy bar on Utah separately prosecuting/seeking the death penalty and establishing a motive (transgender ideology) that serves the Trump admin political purpose not just in this case but more broadly (for example, the proposal preceding this murder to ban transgender people from getting firearms).

Now, that is a lot of supposition from kindling of the incompetence and political posturing of the FBI and Trump Administration so far. A simpler explanation could be Kash’s politicized FBI feeding the MAGA and anti-trans trolls as much red meat as they can to hold off right wing criticism of the FBI’s handling of the investigation without caring much if any of the leaked “investigative avenues” / fishing expedition / conspiracy theories pan out.of course they want this to be a RICO transgender terrorism case that tracks directly back to George Soros and Barack Obama, but just feeding the conspiracy zone with suggestions that is what they are looking for will feed decades of conspiracist influencers (and malign foreign influence programs for that matter).

Of course, even that is probably more complicated that the reality that Patel is a right wing influencer himself who has hollowed out the professionals at the FBI and is a terrible combo of incompetent in his current law enforcement and corruptly motivated to will his worldview into reality.
 
farce© said:
I will repost my thoughts on the Utah governor’s performance from the other thread….

I thought it was very strange that the governor was the primary speaker at all of those press conferences. Typically a governor (or mayor, or President, or whatever senior executive is present) will offer their concerns and condolences and turn the podium over to the police chief (or fire chief, or FBI AIC, or FEMA official, etc) to discuss details and progress of an investigation.

I felt the governor being the primary spokesperson from the first press conference indicated an immediate political weaponization of this event from the get-go. That feeling was reinforced by the governor’s “analysis” of selected bits of alleged evidence. I was shocked when some people were saying how Utah’s governor acquitted himself well during this “crisis” simply because he wasn’t as crass as Donald Trump, while being every bit as partisan as Trump.
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That was my take as well. On MTP, Welker asked him for a response to Trump’s comments about the shooting and he did everything he could to avoid a whiff of criticism. He further thanked Trump for reaching out to him and mentioned that it was the WH that asked him to make appearances on the Sunday shows.
As I said in response to the WSJ article wherein he promoted unsubstantiated hearsay as evidence the shooter was a leftist, it may well be true, but until there is clearer support for that authorities shouldn’t be making such claims. It feels like an attempt to whitewash his conservative upbringing, at best. At worst, it feels like a high level effort to use the murder of one of their own as a tool to drive their base (to vote, to violence?) or possibly as a manufactured basis to have DoJ come after Democratic voices, organizations, donors, etc.
I actually have a good bit of respect for Spencer Cox so I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but it is very disconcerting to see him so willingly leaping forward on the “leftist assassin” path.

Edit:
Well, shit. I just read nyc’s post that is immediately above mine. Looks like we’re getting the worst case scenario.
 
ZenMode said:
I think many on the right see this as "being bitten by the mouth you fed".

I generally agree.

I've never had a huge issue, in principle, with people being fired for idiotic things they say in public, when those people are tied back to their employer.

There are exceptions. I didn't agree with Netflix' Jonathan Friedland being fired, but when people say blatantly racist/anti-Semitic, etc things in public, you take the risk.

No idea if this is real, but:

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Even if you feel using cancel culture against the left is fair play, the following two things are not remotely justified:

1. Going after people who did nothing but criticize Kirk for his statements. Celebrating his death is one thing but simply criticizing the man for how he lived is another.

2. The government actively playing a role in this as Stephen Miller is advocating. And Miller is calling for the government to come down on people I described above who did nothing but criticize Kirk’s politics.
 
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