Charlie Kirk shot and killed at Utah rally.

[altmin]

I continue to struggle with why his motive matters. That said, I would imagine that since he is alive we will learn more. I don't expect it will change much other than one team gets to say, "See, it was your guy."

Why he did it means not an iota to me personally. What it means for the country is pretty serious though:





NYT

Vance hosts Kirk’s podcast with a parade of Trump officials.​

Trump administration officials on Monday responded to the activist Charlie Kirk’s assassination by threatening to bring the weight of the federal government down on what they alleged was a left-wing network that funds and incites violence, seizing on the killing to make broad and unsubstantiated claims about their political opponents.

Investigators were still working to identify a motive in Mr. Kirk’s killing, but the Republican governor of Utah, Spencer Cox, has said that the suspect had a “leftist ideology” and that he acted alone.

The White House and President Trump’s allies suggested that he was part of a coordinated movement that was fomenting violence against conservatives — without presenting evidence that such a network existed. America has seen a wave of violence across the political spectrum, targeting Democrats and Republicans.

On Monday, two senior administration officials, who spoke anonymously to describe the internal planning, said that cabinet secretaries and federal department heads were working to identify organizations that funded or supported violence against conservatives. The goal, they said, was to categorize left-wing activity that led to violence as domestic terrorism, an escalation that critics said could lay the groundwork for crushing anti-conservative dissent more broadly.

Some of the highest-ranking officials in the federal government used Mr. Kirk’s podcast, “The Charlie Kirk Show,” to lay out their plans.

From his official office at the White House, Vice President JD Vance served as a guest host of the podcast, inviting senior members of the administration, including Stephen Miller, the president’s top policy adviser, to praise Mr. Kirk while also detailing their plans to crack down on what they called leftist nongovernmental organizations. The show was broadcast on the television screens in the White House briefing room and in several West Wing offices.

 

[lawtig02]

Why he did it means not an iota to me personally. What it means for the country is pretty serious though:





NYT

Vance hosts Kirk’s podcast with a parade of Trump officials.​

Trump administration officials on Monday responded to the activist Charlie Kirk’s assassination by threatening to bring the weight of the federal government down on what they alleged was a left-wing network that funds and incites violence, seizing on the killing to make broad and unsubstantiated claims about their political opponents.

Investigators were still working to identify a motive in Mr. Kirk’s killing, but the Republican governor of Utah, Spencer Cox, has said that the suspect had a “leftist ideology” and that he acted alone.

The White House and President Trump’s allies suggested that he was part of a coordinated movement that was fomenting violence against conservatives — without presenting evidence that such a network existed. America has seen a wave of violence across the political spectrum, targeting Democrats and Republicans.

On Monday, two senior administration officials, who spoke anonymously to describe the internal planning, said that cabinet secretaries and federal department heads were working to identify organizations that funded or supported violence against conservatives. The goal, they said, was to categorize left-wing activity that led to violence as domestic terrorism, an escalation that critics said could lay the groundwork for crushing anti-conservative dissent more broadly.

Some of the highest-ranking officials in the federal government used Mr. Kirk’s podcast, “The Charlie Kirk Show,” to lay out their plans.

From his official office at the White House, Vice President JD Vance served as a guest host of the podcast, inviting senior members of the administration, including Stephen Miller, the president’s top policy adviser, to praise Mr. Kirk while also detailing their plans to crack down on what they called leftist nongovernmental organizations. The show was broadcast on the television screens in the White House briefing room and in several West Wing offices.

Yet another thing in the long, long, long list of things that would cause the Right to lose their ever-loving minds if a sitting Dem VP ever did.

 

[altmin]

i.e. it's not fun waking up as an American and hearing echoes of Feb 28, 1933 because some fucked up kid wanted to get his lulz with a rifle.

 

[nycfan]

The cross dresser part is unsubstantiated, but not the gay part. His lifelong "close friend" Clyde Tolson sure as hell acted like a life partner. They would go on vacation together. Hoover bequeathed his estate to Tolson. Tolson accepted the flag that draped Hoover's coffin. Tolson is buried a few yards away from Hoover.

Roy Cohn was a source of information about Hoover, and he was definitely credible on that particular subject. Cohn's take was that Hoover was too scared of his sexuality to act on it, but that's still confirming that he was gay or bi. As for the cross-dressing, you're right a lot of the published material relies on an unreliable witness, but Roy Cohn apparently told people about it before it became a topic of public discussion. Now, that's hearsay and unreliable I think, but it's more than just one witness. That said, it is not well established at all.

The homo/bisexuality seems pretty solid, even if there are people who deny it. Another piece of evidence: Lela Rodgers was his beard.

I don’t care all that much, but FTR it seems possible but unsubstantiated

Five myths about J. Edgar Hoover​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-j-edgar-hoover/2011/11/07/gIQASLlo5M_story.html

——

The Truth About J. Edgar Hoover's "Cross-Dressing" - JSTOR Daily

The story of J. Edgar Hoover dressing in women's clothing is part of American myth, but it's truth maybe less revealing than what the gossip tells us about Hoover and his times.

daily.jstor.org

J. Edgar Hoover: Gay or Just a Man Who Has Sex With Men?

Clint Eastwood's film, "J Edgar," leave an ambiguous impression of the FBI director's close relationship with his deputy, Clyde Tolson.

abcnews.go.com

——
JEH was an awful person completely unrelated to his sexuality so I won’t waste anyone’s time more on this. I just had read a good bit about it a while back (longer than I thought looking for links) when a movie about him came out. But screw him, just a terrible person with a lot of power that he abused rampantly.

 

[Bigs23]

i.e. it's not fun waking up as an American and hearing echoes of Feb 28, 1933 because some fucked up kid wanted to get his lulz with a rifle.

If it wasn’t this would have been something else.

 

[mpaer]

Among Americans aged 12 years and older, 47.7 million were current illegal drug users (used within the last 30 days) as of 2023.
This includes pot I believe

The rest is just capitalism at work
Where there is a demand three is a supply
Maybe we should work on drug addiction?

 

[nycfan]

Yet another thing in the long, long, long list of things that would cause the Right to lose their ever-loving minds if a sitting Dem VP ever did.

The Dems did disgust a lot of people when they turned Paul Wellstone’s memorial service into what felt more like a political rally. And got dragged for it by media and GOP and some Dem politicians pretty mercilessly. His death and that behavior (and picking Walter Mondale to run in his stead?) probably cost the Democrats that seat (to Norm Coleman) at the time.

Coleman won in 2002 then went on to lose the seat to Al Franken by a hair in 2008.

 

[lawtig02]

The Dems did disgust a lot of people when they turned Paul Wellstone’s memorial service into what felt more like a political rally. And got dragged for it by media and GOP and some Dem politicians pretty mercilessly. His death and that behavior (and picking Walter Mondale to run in his stead?) probably cost the Democrats that seat (to Norm Coleman) at the time.

Coleman won in 2002 then went on to lose the seat to Al Franken by a hair in 2008.

Agree. And when the Pubs do 10x more than that at Kirk's funeral, I won't care much because that's what Kirk clearly would have wanted. The sitting VP hosting a podcast in which a slew of administration officials lay out the war they have planned against the left seems like a very different thing to me.

 

[nycfan]

 

[nycfan]

Agree. And when the Pubs do 10x more than that at Kirk's funeral, I won't care much because that's what Kirk clearly would have wanted. The sitting VP hosting a podcast in which a slew of administration officials lay out the war they have planned against the left seems like a very different thing to me.

Not saying it’s better or worse, just noting that Dems did get skewered for an arguably similar (if less aggressively divisive) behavior.

 

[mynameisbond]

wonder how many of them were "radical left"?

 

[1moretimeagain]

My guess is Robinson will plead not guilty tomorrow and wait for a deal that avoids the death penalty. Not sure his attorney could aim for anything beyond that.

 

[ChapelHillSooner]

He does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. He was not talking about affirmative action. He openly talked about black women not having sufficient "brain processing power" (hey, dead dumbass, we aren't PCs). He had a worldview in which white people were the smartest and thus most qualified to lead. I don't know why you would give him the benefit of any doubt. He most certainly did not deserve it, at all.

I was thinking about that particular quote when I wrote my previous post and agree that that one is really bad and impossible to justify.

Anyway I used the one quote to show that 1) some people missed the context of it being about affirmative action (and the pilot one was) and 2) it doesn't matter because he was so intent on being provocative that it crossed the line into being racist.

 

[evrheel]

'You're lying': JD Vance under fire for 'incredibly irresponsible' podcast rant

Vice President JD Vance's appearance on Monday's episode of "The Charlie Kirk Show" raised the eyebrows of many political observers. Vance interviewed White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller on a new episode of the late conservative activist Charlie Kirk's namesake podcast. Observers...

www.rawstory.com

Glenn Kessler, author and former fact-checker at the Washington Post, posted on Bluesky. "I recently checked the ADL data, which has some issues because they include non-ideological murders. But even with those removed, over the past decade right-wing extremists would account for about half of the murders, with about 35% by Islamist extremists, and 8% by left-wing extremist."

 

[ChapelHillSooner]

Again... anything is possible but Kirk was clearly anti-trans, anti-gay, anti-LGBTQ. Tyler was in some kind of relationship and living with a transgender person.

I guess I don't see how anti-semitism/white nationalism fits into this

Wow. You cracked it. Tyler wasn't a fan of Kirk.

I don't think any of us would have known that had you not pointed this out.

 

[farce©]

"meaningful involvement" is way subjective.

i've said this to you no less than 17 times over the last several days. there are some examples of bad, divisive rhetoric from the left but it is categorically outnumbered in both frequency and temperature by the rhetoric coming from right wing politicians and influencers.

If you’ve responded to that poster 17 total much less on one topic, you are part of the problem.

 

[MOUNTAINH33L]

I know at least two log cabin re

jesus Christ dude, why do you debate like this. Nobody is saying the democrats have zero culpability.

I'm just messing with Zen. I wouldn't consider my post "debate".

 

[Carolina Fever]

Yeah, just forget the racism and bigotry that Kirk spewed. People should just be tolerant of it. Just tolerate that some people hate non whites, gays, trans, and non Christians just because they aren't straight white Christian nationalists. Can't people just be inclusive and tolerate it? Also, never mind that Kirk was killed because Robinson thought Kirk wasn't racist and bigoted enough.

 

[WaynetheDrain]

What does it say about a person that when they die, merely the act of directly quoting them can be viewed as a hostile act that sullies their memory and can lead to termination of their job?

When Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated, was there a mass of people getting fired for quoting his “I Have a Dream” speech? What about JFK’s “Ask Not What Your Country Can Do For You” speech?

What type of shit person must you have been in life where simply the act of quoting you directly gets people fired after you die?

 

[Carolina Fever]

What does it say about a person that when they die, merely the act of directly quoting them can be viewed as a hostile act that sullies their memory and can lead to termination of their job?

When Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated, was there a mass of people getting fired for quoting his “I Have a Dream” speech? What about JFK’s “Ask Not What Your Country Can Do For You” speech?

What type of shit person must you have been in life where simply the act of quoting you directly gets people fired after you die?

What kind of shit employer do you have to be to fire people for just quoting Kirk?