Charlie Kirk shot and killed at Utah rally.

[JCTarheel82]

There weren’t really any indicators of Luigi being a pro other than he knew where the guy would be and initially got away. He shot that CEO at point blank and ran. This shot is a completely different animal. That accuracy at that distance is a very well-trained shooter. A shot like that isn’t going to be pulled off by someone who just decided to kill someone and went to the range a couple times after buying the gun. Also had a very well put together plan to be able to get away in a crowd that large. Almost certainly has a military, law enforcement, or extensive hunting background.

I was a hunter in a previous life so I'm familiar with firearms and understand that this shot required considerable skill. Some random dude off the street is unlikely to pull it off but you don't have to be Chris Kyle either with modern equipment. Maybe I'm just misinterpreting the term "trained hand" in comparison to the "lone crazy" in the original tweet. I was thinking someone with special forces training or similar. I could definitely see the shooter being former military / law enforcement or an experienced hunter as you said. Then again, the PA shooter was just some young guy who went to the shooting range with his dad and he barely missed a similar shot because Trump turned his head.

 

[superrific]

I think we all understand that this is the move for right wingers but don’t honestly understand what you’re saying people on the left should do differently in response to it. Yes, traits like empathy and compassion and restraint can seem like weakness in the face of people who have no morals and will go to any lengths to seize and hold power. But the idea that the left can somehow just “out-dirt bag” the right into becoming reasonable people again and lead us to a more harmonious democracy seems absolutely crazy. It will not work. It will lead to a never ending cycle of retribution and grievance far worse than anything we have now. It sounds like the logic that has led the Middle East into the most intractable conflict imaginable.

There are two issues. First is my model of our democracy as a prisoners' dilemma. Second is the feasibility of alternatives. You can think highly of the first and be skeptical of the second.

What I know is that things have to change. Do you want to live in a country in which every election brings the threat of fascism? Where every single news cycle is charged and fraught with threats of violence, exclusion, demonization?

 

[dcphx]

I know it's only a few hours after the shooting and that there's plenty that law enforcement is probably having to sift through, but tt's really unsettling to me that we haven't caught the shooter and have zero idea what the shooter's motivations were.

I know it's reckless to speculate but having had the extremely ignominious misfortune of having seen the video clip of the killing on social media, it seems to me that either the shooter was one of the luckiest shots I've ever seen or extremely well-trained and proficient. It appears that it was a single shot that hit Kirk in one of the smallest yet absolute worst places for a human being to be wounded- the area around the carotid and juglar, from what was apparently multiple hundred yards away.

Really scary stuff.

Pro

 

[BlooVooDoo]

I'd go far enough to say that's very likely someone who's had some experience with a firearm, but that doesn't necessarily mean they've had any specialized training, either.

200 yards with a scoped rifle is easy if it’s sighted in properly (and you can pay to have that done for you with the ammo and distance of your choice).

 

[SnoopRob]

200 yards with a scoped rifle is easy if it’s sighted in properly (and you can pay to have that done for you with the ammo and distance of your choice).

It's not terribly hard if you've got some experience with shooting at decent distances in a variety of situations...I would be surprised if a novice could do it very well. Especially once you add in the nerves of knowing that you're about to shoot a person and all hell will break loose once you pull the trigger.

 

[BlooVooDoo]

It's not terribly hard if you've got some experience with shooting at decent distances in a variety of situations...I would be surprised if a novice could do it very well. Especially once you add in the nerves of knowing that you're about to shoot a person and all hell will break loose once you pull the trigger.

Sure. Not a novice. Someone who has shot enough to hold zero and not flinch when squeezing the trigger, but far from expert.

 

[p5mmr9]

This is a message board, you realize.

I’d say it’s irresponsible to assign motive, especially for anyone with a real platform from which to do so. It’s not irresponsible to discuss motive, especially on a message board. Two very different things.

Huh? What does the platform have to do with responsibility? It absolutely is irresponsible to discuss motive when we have no idea even who a suspect is in this murder. It's irresponsible to discuss motive whether you are a major politician, media figure, or an idiot sitting on your sofa posting on your phone. There is no difference. We know nothing about the perpetrator. Assigning motive in that situation is ridiculous. "Anonymously" posting online does not leave you without responsibility.

 

[SnoopRob]

Huh? What does the platform have to do with responsibility? It absolutely is irresponsible to discuss motive when we have no idea even who a suspect is in this murder. It's irresponsible to discuss motive whether you are a major politician, media figure, or an idiot sitting on your sofa posting on your phone. There is no difference. We know nothing about the perpetrator. Assigning motive in that situation is ridiculous. "Anonymously" posting online does not leave you without responsibility.

I would say it’s fine to discuss the shooter’s potential motives and even to make grounded assumptions about said motive, as long one is clear that these are assumptions and not known facts.

It’s wrong to assign a motive to the shooter as if said motive is factual and to not be clear that said motive is an assumption.

 

[Rock]

Pretty wild to me that they still don’t have the shooter in custody.