Charlie Kirk shot and killed at Utah rally.

4thgenheel said:
my god, man. why are you so bad at this?!

you just tried to ID super's post on this very small, niche online message board as evidence of widespread escalated rhetoric on the left but now the awful views espoused by right wing influencers with millions of social media followers don't matter?!

the cognitive dissonance is staggering.
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"You think that supporting gun rights and acknowledging that those rights are going to be misused, means that Kirk wants the rights misused or hopes they are misused and deserves to die as a result?"

Who said he deserved to die? But he also agreed with the sentiment that they should use their guns to combat election theft.

This isn't a "he deserves to die" so much as a FAFO. He was in favor of the First Amendment for himself and his peeps but not others. He was in favor of the Second Amendment for himself and his peeps but not others. Same with the 14th and the 4th. Well, it doesn't always work that way. Sometimes when you release the Joker, it rebounds on you.

What does he mean, exactly, to use a gun to protect his other God-given rights? How does that work? Doesn't involve pulling a trigger to kill someone? And now someone, perhaps having been stripped of those rights or in danger of it, is trying to protect their rights. He was killed by his own hand, regardless of whether he intended to be killed or not.
 
Carolina Fever said:
Wonder when these were taken since he doesn't have a gun with him.
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He appears to be wearing a backpack (like any college student might). Could a gun like that be broken down into pieces that fit in a backpack? If he broke it down would he re-assemble it to ditch it in the woods?

T-shirt looks to be a flag with an eagle in center and some document to the right (my guess would be the Bill of Rights or Constitution or Declaration of Independence but can’t tell from this blurry screenshot)
 
nycfan said:
He appears to be wearing a backpack (like any college student might). Could a gun like that be broken down into pieces that fit in a backpack? If he broke it down would he re-assemble it to ditch it in the woods?

T-shirt looks to be a flag with an eagle in center and some document to the right (my guess would be the Bill of Rights or Constitution or Declaration of Independence but can’t tell from this blurry screenshot)
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That footage could have been from him going up to the roof before the shooting. Gun would be naturally in the pack.
 
Calheel said:
Ok @superrific. Am I still watching too many movies?
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I didn't say you were watching too many movies. I genuinely didn't know the answer. Obviously he would be wearing sunglasses. The part I didn't know about was the rifle that he assembled and disassembled. And it appears that maybe he didn't disassemble it?

I mean, maybe the movies get things right sometimes. Wouldn't surprise me if they get the military-type stuff correct. They use lots of consultants -- i.e. former criminals, military, etc. -- to help them get the crime or military action realistic.
 
superrific said:
What do you think the risk-reward calculus looks like here?

What odds do you mean when you say, "unlikely?" 0.001%? 5%?

American democracy is so valuable that even a tiny risk cannot be justified. You're better off with your argument that all alternatives to quietism are worse. And I don't mean quietism in the sense of engaging in no political activity; I mean, living in an environment when activism means nothing because truth means nothing.
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I don't know what you mean by "all alternatives to quietism are worse." Can you explain? I'm certainly not advocating that anyone be "quiet" about what the Trump admin is doing, if that's what you mean. I have been here on this very thread talking about the danger of all the major MAFGA media figures trying to egg Trump into political repression because of the Kirk murder.

In terms of the odds that within months or a couple years from now we will have post-Reichstag Fire, Nazi Germany policies in the US (civil liberties suspended, "unfriendly" media publications shut down and only state-run or state-friendly media left, thousands of political opponents jailed or murdered, all political opposition outlawed, disfavored groups like the Jews in Nazi Germany terrorized and purged, brownshirts roaming the streets of major cities killing and terrorizing, etc) I think the likelihood is exceedingly low - like less than 5%, maybe less than 1%. I have gone into a lot of detail in other threads but I think there are a lot of reasons that make something like that almost impossible for the Trump admin to pull off in practice.
 
Assuming all of the information put out is reliable (ie the Antifa/Trans stuff is on the weapon and ammo, the pictures are actually the guy, etc.). There’s all sorts of wild possibilities about who this could be:

1. Trans person/ally. This is the obvious conventional answer and is still probably the most likely with the information we have. The super patriotic shirt and the MAGA classic wraparound sunglasses causes some pause. Could have worn the uber patriot gear to blend in at a TPUSA event, but he wasn’t actually at the event itself as far as we know so far, but inside a building across the way.

2. One of these neonazis that’s mad at him for publicly disavowing white supremacy.

3. Probably the most scary if it comes to pass and we’d only know if he’s successfully caught: a boogaloo-type accelerationist. A guy who wants to kick-off a civil war by drawing blame to a marginalized group in order to watch the world burn.
 
superrific said:
Sure. Just know that "we need to take down the temperature" is not going to get any results, just like it hasn't gotten any results the last million times it's been tried.

The right instinctively wants to be victims and search for martyrs. Don't give that to them. Kirk wasn't a victim. He was killed by things he thinks are good.
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Kirk, in the end, was a victim. That his career may have played some part in that doesn't change the fact that he is a victim of murder, of political violence, of America's unusually radical gun culture, and the dangerous rhetoric that overwhelmingly comes from his side.
That doesn't change the fact that a thirty one year old man lost his life. His children lost a father. As much as I might have disagreed with him, I wish this on no one. Yesterday was a sad day in this country, as are all the days with our senseless gun violence.
 
UNCBAdookJD said:
Assuming all of the information put out is reliable (ie the Antifa/Trans stuff is on the weapon and ammo, the pictures are actually the guy, etc.). There’s all sorts of wild possibilities about who this could be:

1. Trans person/ally. This is the obvious conventional answer and is still probably the most likely with the information we have. The super patriotic shirt and the MAGA classic wraparound sunglasses causes some pause. Could have worn the uber patriot gear to blend in at a TPUSA event, but he wasn’t actually at the event itself as far as we know so far, but inside a building across the way.

2. One of these neonazis that’s mad at him for publicly disavowing white supremacy.

3. Probably the most scary if it comes to pass and we’d only know if he’s successfully caught: a boogaloo-type accelerationist. A guy who wants to kick-off a civil war by drawing blame to a marginalized group in order to watch the world burn
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I wouldn't put too much stock in the American flag imagery. As we know, the American flag is a symbol with many, many meanings and uses.
 
nycfan said:
He appears to be wearing a backpack (like any college student might). Could a gun like that be broken down into pieces that fit in a backpack? If he broke it down would he re-assemble it to ditch it in the woods?

T-shirt looks to be a flag with an eagle in center and some document to the right (my guess would be the Bill of Rights or Constitution or Declaration of Independence but can’t tell from this blurry screenshot)
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The ATF said " older model imported Mauser .30-06 caliber bolt action rifle wrapped in a towel"
Apparently older model Mauser don't fire .03-06 though...
regardless, this doesn't sound like a rifle with detachable stock or barrel, etc. - plus "wrapped in towel" sounds more like a complete rifle vs something in parts that could've been kept in the backpack or scattered randomly.
 
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