Downside risk? LOL, now I'm not positive on how it works, but to count the electoral votes the speaker has to face a vote himself before that can happen. This thing could make that difficult. If so, would be funny to see Trump scramble.
Congress Catch-All
- Thread starter nycfan
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I had trouble understanding why Trump has not already shown an inclination to pull Musk back in despite the 277 million or so Musk spent on the campaign. Then I realized that Trump is waiting for the big windfall when Musk buy's his social media company.
The cool thing about the two of them TRYING to work together, is that its sure to be a disaster. Hate it for the country, but it might take that to wake the country up.
The cool thing about the two of them TRYING to work together, is that its sure to be a disaster. Hate it for the country, but it might take that to wake the country up.
heelslegup
Esteemed Member
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They only have a 3 seat majority in the next House. They had enough trouble passing anything this Congress with a slighly larger majority much of the time. Electing the House speker in early Januart could well be like all the McCearthy stuff in Jan 2023
Peopele like to slam the Dems for poor elecvtion performance this year. I think a case can be made that Dems overachieved in Cong races this election given the climatge and that they had far more sears at stake in Senate and only lost 3. And lost the Prez election by 1,6$ which is well within the misogynst margin of error (I'm guessing there are still at least 5-7 % of voters==and not just males--who are not willing to vote for a woman presidnetial candidate.
Peopele like to slam the Dems for poor elecvtion performance this year. I think a case can be made that Dems overachieved in Cong races this election given the climatge and that they had far more sears at stake in Senate and only lost 3. And lost the Prez election by 1,6$ which is well within the misogynst margin of error (I'm guessing there are still at least 5-7 % of voters==and not just males--who are not willing to vote for a woman presidnetial candidate.
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whatntarnation
Well-Known Member
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So. After running a campaign against immigrants and against "wasteful spending" raising the national debt . The grandson of a immigrant, the son of a immigrant, and a immigrant want to raise the debt ceiling so they can steal more taxpayer money and pay less taxes on their billions. Lawd have mercy.
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And it’s patently clear why he bought Twitter and cared not one whit about all of the loss of market value. What he got in return was infinitely more valuable.
TangledUpInBlue06
Distinguished Member
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I'm not sure what you mean. A government shutdown would not prevent Congress from counting electoral votes. Also the VP as President of the Senate typically presides over a joint session of Congress.
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Things are going swimmingly among the GOP today, I see ...
politicalwire.com
When a producer for Tucker Carlson accused Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R-TX) of “spearheading” the effort to derail the short term spending bill, Crenshaw blew up at him: “Yeah or maybe you’re a fucking lying piece of shit because I’m not even on the YES list for the whip team. Never have been. But hey, whatever gets you pathetic bottom feeders your click bait. Fucking incels.”
Tensions Run High on Capitol Hill
When a producer for Tucker Carlson accused Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R-TX) of “spearheading” the effort to derail the short term spending bill, Crenshaw blew up at him: “Yeah or maybe you’re a fucking lying piece
politicalwire.com
When a producer for Tucker Carlson accused Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R-TX) of “spearheading” the effort to derail the short term spending bill, Crenshaw blew up at him: “Yeah or maybe you’re a fucking lying piece of shit because I’m not even on the YES list for the whip team. Never have been. But hey, whatever gets you pathetic bottom feeders your click bait. Fucking incels.”
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- 23,373
Annnnnd of course they were using false and misleading claims to gin up this CR crisis ...
The billionaire stirred Republicans into a frenzy with 100-plus posts on X.
"...Among the 100-plus tweets Musk sent as part of his campaign were a number of misleading or outright false claims — a possible preview of the mogul’s new role as co-leader of a Trump-blessed effort to slash government funding.
...Musk didn’t seem to think a government shutdown would have significant consequences for the country. He responded “YES” to a post that read, “Just close down the govt until January 20th. Defund everything. We will be fine for 33 days.” Another Musk post said a shutdown “doesn’t actually shut down critical functions.”
But while essential functions would continue during a shutdown, there are significant real-world effects: Other government employees will halt their day-to-day work and miss paychecks. While Social Security checks will go out and mail will be delivered, agency shutdowns cause massive lost productivity. A five-week shutdown from 2018 to 2019 caused the economy to lose about $3 billion, according to estimates from the Congressional Budget Office.
...The billionaire falsely claimed that members of Congress would get a 40 percent pay raise as part of the package — something both Musk and the X account for his so-called Department of Government Efficiency got wrong.
Members of Congress have not had a raise to their $174,000 salaries since 2009, after repeatedly freezing a law implementing automatic cost-of-living increases. The pending CR does not include a COLA freeze, but that would not result in a 40 percent boost in pay — far from it. The maximum potential pay adjustment would be 3.8 percent, an increase of $6,600.
Even if lawmakers had given themselves all 15 years of rejected COLAs — which, again, they are not doing — it would result in only a 31 percent increase, according to the Congressional Research Service.
Musk reposted a claim that the bill would provide $3 billion for a new NFL stadium in Washington. Not true: The bill transfers control of the site of the existing RFK Stadium to the D.C. local government for redevelopment, which could potentially include a stadium. No federal funds are changing hands as part of the transaction.
...
He’s also wrong that the bill shields the Jan. 6 committee — a claim that may have helped draw Trump further into the debate.
Musk said it was “[o]utrageous” that the bill would block House Republicans from investigating the Jan. 6 select committee established in the prior, Democratic-majority Congress. Not exactly: The section of the bill cited by the convicted Jan. 6 rioter that Musk quoted has nothing to do with internal House investigations.
Rather, it’s language meant to clarify that House data stored on outside digital platforms remains under control of House offices — and thus subject to House rules and procedures for accessing it: “A House office shall be deemed to retain possession of any House data of the House office, without regard to the use” of any particular platform, the bill reads. [MY NOTE -- I had read prior to all this that the impetus for this was outrage among GOP House members when DOJ searched phones and Congressional data in connection with the J6 investigations]
Musk also gave oxygen to an untrue assertion when he reposted a screenshot from a conservative account Libs of TikTok claiming that the legislation would fund “bioweapon labs.”
That is false: The provision in question would establish regional biocontainment laboratories as part of a larger pandemic preparedness plan. Their stated purpose is “conducting biomedical research to support public health and medical preparedness,” not creating bioweapons. The provision is part of a long-sought reauthorization of the Pandemic and All Hazards Preparedness and Response Act."
Elon Musk fueled backlash to spending plan with false and misleading claims
The billionaire stirred Republicans into a frenzy with 100-plus posts on X.
"...Among the 100-plus tweets Musk sent as part of his campaign were a number of misleading or outright false claims — a possible preview of the mogul’s new role as co-leader of a Trump-blessed effort to slash government funding.
...Musk didn’t seem to think a government shutdown would have significant consequences for the country. He responded “YES” to a post that read, “Just close down the govt until January 20th. Defund everything. We will be fine for 33 days.” Another Musk post said a shutdown “doesn’t actually shut down critical functions.”
But while essential functions would continue during a shutdown, there are significant real-world effects: Other government employees will halt their day-to-day work and miss paychecks. While Social Security checks will go out and mail will be delivered, agency shutdowns cause massive lost productivity. A five-week shutdown from 2018 to 2019 caused the economy to lose about $3 billion, according to estimates from the Congressional Budget Office.
...The billionaire falsely claimed that members of Congress would get a 40 percent pay raise as part of the package — something both Musk and the X account for his so-called Department of Government Efficiency got wrong.
Members of Congress have not had a raise to their $174,000 salaries since 2009, after repeatedly freezing a law implementing automatic cost-of-living increases. The pending CR does not include a COLA freeze, but that would not result in a 40 percent boost in pay — far from it. The maximum potential pay adjustment would be 3.8 percent, an increase of $6,600.
Even if lawmakers had given themselves all 15 years of rejected COLAs — which, again, they are not doing — it would result in only a 31 percent increase, according to the Congressional Research Service.
Musk reposted a claim that the bill would provide $3 billion for a new NFL stadium in Washington. Not true: The bill transfers control of the site of the existing RFK Stadium to the D.C. local government for redevelopment, which could potentially include a stadium. No federal funds are changing hands as part of the transaction.
...
He’s also wrong that the bill shields the Jan. 6 committee — a claim that may have helped draw Trump further into the debate.
Musk said it was “[o]utrageous” that the bill would block House Republicans from investigating the Jan. 6 select committee established in the prior, Democratic-majority Congress. Not exactly: The section of the bill cited by the convicted Jan. 6 rioter that Musk quoted has nothing to do with internal House investigations.
Rather, it’s language meant to clarify that House data stored on outside digital platforms remains under control of House offices — and thus subject to House rules and procedures for accessing it: “A House office shall be deemed to retain possession of any House data of the House office, without regard to the use” of any particular platform, the bill reads. [MY NOTE -- I had read prior to all this that the impetus for this was outrage among GOP House members when DOJ searched phones and Congressional data in connection with the J6 investigations]
Musk also gave oxygen to an untrue assertion when he reposted a screenshot from a conservative account Libs of TikTok claiming that the legislation would fund “bioweapon labs.”
That is false: The provision in question would establish regional biocontainment laboratories as part of a larger pandemic preparedness plan. Their stated purpose is “conducting biomedical research to support public health and medical preparedness,” not creating bioweapons. The provision is part of a long-sought reauthorization of the Pandemic and All Hazards Preparedness and Response Act."
StrangePackage
Iconic Member
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This is fine
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- 23,373
Trump Tossed a Debt Limit Grenade Into Spending Talks. Here’s Why.
President-elect Donald J. Trump was forced to negotiate with Democrats over the borrowing cap during his first term.
Trump Tossed a Debt Limit Grenade Into Spending Talks. Here’s Why.
President-elect Donald J. Trump was forced to negotiate with Democrats over the borrowing cap during his first term."... As he prepares to push an agenda of tax cuts and border security, Mr. Trump fears that a debt limit fight next year could interfere. His plans are expected to cost trillions of dollars, much of which will most likely need to come from borrowed funds. A drawn-out debt limit fight next year could force Mr. Trump and Republicans to bow to the demands of Democrats and could consume the congressional calendar.
“This is a nasty TRAP set in place by the Radical Left Democrats!” Mr. Trump wrote on social medial on Wednesday night.
Republicans are always reluctant to lift the debt limit, particularly when a Democrat is in the White House, saying it enables runaway spending. G.O.P. lawmakers regularly use it as a tool to extract concessions, such as spending cuts, from Democrats when they are in power.
But Republicans will soon control Congress, as well as the White House, putting the onus squarely on them to either deal with the debt limit or face the prospect of a default. The standoff over the debt limit last year roiled markets and led to a downgrade of the long-term credit rating of the United States. Mr. Trump would like to avoid a similar scenario on his watch.
By addressing the debt limit during the final weeks of the Biden administration, Republicans could prevent Democrats from weaponizing it against them once they are in power. And, as Mr. Trump has made clear, he could then blame Mr. Biden for increasing the borrowing cap.
“It’s clear Trump wants to clear the deck so he doesn’t have to have a budget/debt limit showdown on his watch to clean up the mess from the Biden spending sprees,” said Stephen Moore, a Heritage Foundation economist who has been an adviser to Mr. Trump.
But it is far from certain that Democrats would go along with the plan, given that they have already blasted Mr. Trump’s push to extend all of the 2017 tax cuts and enact new ones.
Democrats have long criticized Republicans for playing dangerous games with the debt limit, and called for it to be abolished. But it is not clear how willing they might be to let go of it as a potential source of leverage. And while Mr. Trump has indicated that he is willing to spearhead a move to eliminate the debt limit, many Republicans might fear that following his lead would be fiscally reckless. ..."
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I think that might be a gross underestimating of how Musk’s cult might respond.
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Trump cult is more powerful I think.
TangledUpInBlue06
Distinguished Member
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Objectively speaking, I think the debt limit is dumb and should be eliminated. But I don't think Ds are going to be doing the coming unified R government any favors, especially with the Rs' history of using the debt limit as leverage against Ds. The narrow margins in the House will turn debt limit negotiations into an infighting mess for Rs. No reason to save them from themselves. And if enough Rs want to get rid of the debt ceiling, they'll be able to do so starting Jan. 20. I don't see the Ds doing it for them.Trump Tossed a Debt Limit Grenade Into Spending Talks. Here’s Why.
President-elect Donald J. Trump was forced to negotiate with Democrats over the borrowing cap during his first term.www.nytimes.com
Trump Tossed a Debt Limit Grenade Into Spending Talks. Here’s Why.
President-elect Donald J. Trump was forced to negotiate with Democrats over the borrowing cap during his first term.
"... As he prepares to push an agenda of tax cuts and border security, Mr. Trump fears that a debt limit fight next year could interfere. His plans are expected to cost trillions of dollars, much of which will most likely need to come from borrowed funds. A drawn-out debt limit fight next year could force Mr. Trump and Republicans to bow to the demands of Democrats and could consume the congressional calendar.
“This is a nasty TRAP set in place by the Radical Left Democrats!” Mr. Trump wrote on social medial on Wednesday night.
Republicans are always reluctant to lift the debt limit, particularly when a Democrat is in the White House, saying it enables runaway spending. G.O.P. lawmakers regularly use it as a tool to extract concessions, such as spending cuts, from Democrats when they are in power.
But Republicans will soon control Congress, as well as the White House, putting the onus squarely on them to either deal with the debt limit or face the prospect of a default. The standoff over the debt limit last year roiled markets and led to a downgrade of the long-term credit rating of the United States. Mr. Trump would like to avoid a similar scenario on his watch.
By addressing the debt limit during the final weeks of the Biden administration, Republicans could prevent Democrats from weaponizing it against them once they are in power. And, as Mr. Trump has made clear, he could then blame Mr. Biden for increasing the borrowing cap.
“It’s clear Trump wants to clear the deck so he doesn’t have to have a budget/debt limit showdown on his watch to clean up the mess from the Biden spending sprees,” said Stephen Moore, a Heritage Foundation economist who has been an adviser to Mr. Trump.
But it is far from certain that Democrats would go along with the plan, given that they have already blasted Mr. Trump’s push to extend all of the 2017 tax cuts and enact new ones.
Democrats have long criticized Republicans for playing dangerous games with the debt limit, and called for it to be abolished. But it is not clear how willing they might be to let go of it as a potential source of leverage. And while Mr. Trump has indicated that he is willing to spearhead a move to eliminate the debt limit, many Republicans might fear that following his lead would be fiscally reckless. ..."
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Certainly could be. However, I think the musk cult possesses the substantial intelligence advantage. That could make up for a lot of the numbers disadvantage. I suspect the Musk cult is also far more international, so their true headcount is more difficult to estimate.
Why not just vote to end the debt ceiling for good?
heelinhell
Iconic Member
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My guess is that the GQP is reluctant to eliminate the cudgel they like to use to threaten the House with government shutdowns.
I'm thinking that maybe your question is rhetorical ?
