CURRENT EVENTS APRIL 3 - 8


I'm probably alone on this... at least on this forum.... but when universities don't consistently enforce their rules, and allow students to call for the elimination of Israel/Jews, they shouldn't get money. If it was a case where the schools were allowing students to call for the elimination of black students, and the schools were doing nothing about it, it would be obvious to most everyone that it's a problem.
 
I'm probably alone on this... at least on this forum.... but when universities don't consistently enforce their rules, and allow students to call for the elimination of Israel/Jews, they shouldn't get money.
1. There's such a thing as the First Amendment, right? As in, universities can teach whatever they want to teach; they cannot be targeted by the government for the content of that expression. In this case, it's actually worse -- it's targeting based on viewpoint, which is the ultimate First Amendment sin.

2. But you're saying things like : they are discriminating against some students. The speech in question is actually conduct. And those distinctions are, in fact, relevant here. On that, you're not wrong.

And indeed, that's why the First Amendment isn't necessarily the right way to look at this, in the first instance. The schools can be reprimanded. But there is a process for doing so, and a list of prescribed remedies. Cutting of "all funding" is not among them on these facts, as far as I know, and not by administrative fiat. I will readily admit that I'm not very knowledgeable about the issues surrounding compliance with educational non-discrimination law, but I would be very surprised if it was OK for the government to say, "you get nothing unless you adopt our view on this contested matter."

If the administration had gone through the proper processes, then the action might be perfectly legal. But of course neither Trump nor MAGA have any patience for process. They have to do everything with the stroke of a pen. So the way they are doing things is very likely illegal.

Once the proper procedures have been skipped, then the First Am becomes relevant and the administration should and will likely be deemed to have violated it. There's really no other way to describe these denials of funding.

3. In addition, speech cannot be curtailed based on unflattering interpretations of it. This is a concept called the "heckler's veto." The heckler doesn't get to decide what a speaker means, nor can the heckler's rowdiness be the basis for curtailing speech. This concept is very old and well-established in case law. It also makes eminent sense.

In this case, your attempt to interpret speech to fit your narrative -- i.e. that "from the river to the sea" is a statement calling for the destruction of Israel -- is a classic heckler's veto. It's not the way it works. It would be a different case if someone was using speech as intimidation and trying to cloak that behind neutral meanings -- for instance, if someone were to walk around campus saying, "I love to fuck MAGAs up their tiny tight assholes with a broom handle," I don't think the court would credit a defendant who claimed he was merely talking about his sexual preferences. I think that would be deemed a threat.

But this case isn't that, because the meanings of the speech in question are genuinely and reasonably contested. The government cannot say, "schools, you lose funding without due process because you interpret the phrase "from the river to the sea" differently than we do."
 
1. There's such a thing as the First Amendment, right? As in, universities can teach whatever they want to teach; they cannot be targeted by the government for the content of that expression. In this case, it's actually worse -- it's targeting based on viewpoint, which is the ultimate First Amendment sin.

2. But you're saying things like : they are discriminating against some students. The speech in question is actually conduct. And those distinctions are, in fact, relevant here. On that, you're not wrong.

And indeed, that's why the First Amendment isn't necessarily the right way to look at this, in the first instance. The schools can be reprimanded. But there is a process for doing so, and a list of prescribed remedies. Cutting of "all funding" is not among them on these facts, as far as I know, and not by administrative fiat. I will readily admit that I'm not very knowledgeable about the issues surrounding compliance with educational non-discrimination law, but I would be very surprised if it was OK for the government to say, "you get nothing unless you adopt our view on this contested matter."

If the administration had gone through the proper processes, then the action might be perfectly legal. But of course neither Trump nor MAGA have any patience for process. They have to do everything with the stroke of a pen. So the way they are doing things is very likely illegal.

Once the proper procedures have been skipped, then the First Am becomes relevant and the administration should and will likely be deemed to have violated it. There's really no other way to describe these denials of funding.

3. In addition, speech cannot be curtailed based on unflattering interpretations of it. This is a concept called the "heckler's veto." The heckler doesn't get to decide what a speaker means, nor can the heckler's rowdiness be the basis for curtailing speech. This concept is very old and well-established in case law. It also makes eminent sense.

In this case, your attempt to interpret speech to fit your narrative -- i.e. that "from the river to the sea" is a statement calling for the destruction of Israel -- is a classic heckler's veto. It's not the way it works. It would be a different case if someone was using speech as intimidation and trying to cloak that behind neutral meanings -- for instance, if someone were to walk around campus saying, "I love to fuck MAGAs up their tiny tight assholes with a broom handle," I don't think the court would credit a defendant who claimed he was merely talking about his sexual preferences. I think that would be deemed a threat.

But this case isn't that, because the meanings of the speech in question are genuinely and reasonably contested. The government cannot say, "schools, you lose funding without due process because you interpret the phrase "from the river to the sea" differently than we do."
My comment was a general belief. I get that there are correct and incorrect ways to remove funding. I'm not commenting on the procedural aspect.

As to the rest of your post.....

Like I said "I'm probably alone on this... at least on this forum....".

If it was white students calling for the removal of black people or spreading racist, neo-nazi propaganda, threatening/intimidating students, I suspect it would be much more clear to you that is a problem that the schools need to deal with. Alas, it's not and Jews aren't a true "victim class".
 
Last edited:
My comment was a general belief. I get that there are correct and incorrect ways to remove funding. I'm not commenting on the procedural aspect.

As to the rest of your post.....

Like I said "I'm probably alone on this... at least on this forum....".

If it was white students calling for the removal of black people or spreading racist, neo-nazi propaganda, threatening/intimidating students, I suspect it would be much more clear to you that is a problem that the schools need to deal with.
I’ve got no issues with the Department of Education and/or DOJ investigating to enforce legal compliance. I very much object to this group punishment blackmail that is obviously using antisemitism as a cudgel — they are going after other Ivy League institutions that didn’t have much of a “ruckus” due to pro-Palestinian protests making vague claims about confirming no issues and besides they need to review their DEI policies so … block research funding pending our fishing trip.

It’s red meat to feed the base — go get those Elitists! And some of the Universities clearly created openings on multiple fronts, including the scandal about basically selling admissions. But as with everything else, the Administration is taking a topic that they easily could have used to garner majority support to investigate the campuses with the most serious issues and going waaaaay over the line for performative revenge politics.
 
I’ve got no issues with the Department of Education and/or DOJ investigating to enforce legal compliance. I very much object to this group punishment blackmail that is obviously using antisemitism as a cudgel — they are going after other Ivy League institutions that didn’t have much of a “ruckus” due to pro-Palestinian protests making vague claims about confirming no issues and besides they need to review their DEI policies so … block research funding pending our fishing trip.

It’s red meat to feed the base — go get those Elitists! And some of the Universities clearly created openings on multiple fronts, including the scandal about basically selling admissions. But as with everything else, the Administration is taking a topic that they easily could have used to garner majority support to investigate the campuses with the most serious issues and going waaaaay over the line for performative revenge politics.
I agree that there is a "politics" aspect to this. There usually is. I was just talking in principle I don't mind universities losing federal funding if they don't reign in dangerous protesting.
 
If it was white students calling for the removal of black people or spreading racist, neo-nazi propaganda, threatening/intimidating students, I suspect it would be much more clear to you that is a problem that the schools need to deal with. Alas, it's not and Jews aren't a true "victim class".
One of my son's ex friends went to college and started a neo-nazi political party there. It was recognized by the administration. It has to follow all the appropriate rules.

Look, nobody here is defending a student who says, "we must kill Jews." That's not the issue. It's whether they are ESSENTIALLY saying that when they ACTUALLY say something else. And that's not an impossible determination, but it has to be made with care.

For instance: any white student on campus can say something like, "rap music is horrible and anyone who likes it has a mental deficiency." That's an obviously racist statement, but it's also allowable. Some of us have extensive experience with university institutions, and a few of us (well at least me) with some of the specific schools being targeted here. I'm 100% positive that a comment like that would be acceptable in terms of disciplinary actions.

Any white student could also say something like "rap music should be exterminated." I'm not 100% sure on this one, but 90% confident that would be acceptable basically every where. You could interpret that as calling for rappers to be murdered, but in context, that's probably not what is meant. To get to "rappers should be killed" requires an inference, that the cessation of rap music would necessarily involve killing rappers. And that's an inference that the speaker has no right to assign to the speaker.

If a white student said, "every time these blacks riot and start fires, we should burn down their neighborhoods ten times over," that I think would be actionable. Note that sentiment, as relates to Jews/Muslims in the Middle East, is more likely to be expressed by Jews but that's a side point. That statement crosses the line, because it's really hard to make sense of the statement at all without an implication of violence.

These free speech issues can be extremely intricate and complicated. The idea that you can paint with such a broad brush is not supported.
 


So not to protect Jewish students?

As I've said before, I know the provost of Harvard. I do not have any confidence that he will stand strong. When I knew him, his First Am thoughts were all about viewpoint discrimination (namely that it should be strictly illegal in all its forms and he saw it everywhere). But he was a Scalia clerk and has been an ardent conservative. I very much doubt he has any love for Trump, but he would lose a lot of friends, I'd imagine, if he tried to fight.

BTW, he was an oft-mentioned name for OLC under Bush 43. He once told me he didn't get it because he had too many liberal friends. Unsure if he's changed that over the years.

Also, Manning has a conciliatory personality, from what I witnessed.
 

I'm glad to see Trump taking advice on the National Security Council from a respected security expert, Laura Loomer.

Her face radiates intelligence, does it not?

1743783793289.png
That can't be her...it's gotta be some AI filtered redo.... right?
 
Back
Top