CURRENT EVENTS - May 1 - May 6

Ramrouser said:
So what you're saying is that it is time for us to give the USSR the appropriate credit for being the country that was largely responsible for the defeat of the Wehrmacht? But they had to lose 20M soldiers and civilians in order to do so.
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And the British. If the British hadn't stepped up while the America Firsters (the Lindbergh version) kept America isolated from the problems in Europe, it wouldn't have mattered once America finally got the balls to join the fight.
 
WaynetheDrain said:
And the British. If the British hadn't stepped up while the America Firsters (the Lindbergh version) kept America isolated from the problems in Europe, it wouldn't have mattered once America finally got the balls to join the fight.
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But according to Dear Leader neither Britain fighting virtually alone for so long or the Soviet Union's massive casualties or Nationalist China's massive casualties (or the massive French casualties in WWI) matter, because we're "AMURICUH HELL YEAH!" and we were clearly the bravest and strongest and bestest in both World Wars! And we better start teaching that in schools too!
 
Ramrouser said:
So what you're saying is that it is time for us to give the USSR the appropriate credit for being the country that was largely responsible for the defeat of the Wehrmacht? But they had to lose 20M soldiers and civilians in order to do so.
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What do you mean, it is time. That's been the conventional wisdom among historians for two generations at least.

www.vox.com

The successful 70-year campaign to convince people the USA and not the USSR beat Hitler

Vox is a general interest news site for the 21st century. Its mission: to help everyone understand our complicated world, so that we can all help shape it. In text, video and audio, our reporters explain politics, policy, world affairs, technology, culture, science, the climate crisis, money...
www.vox.com www.vox.com

It was the invasion of the Soviet Union that was the downfall of the Nazis. If Hitler had just kept his part of the non-aggression pact with Stalin, it's doubtful that the US/UK could have dislodged Germany from its dominant position across most of Northern Europe. It would have taken a very long time regardless.

It's almost certain that the US could have not defeated Germany on its own. Of course, that's in part because the US was handling another one of the axis powers, which we defeated all by ourselves (with some minor help from allies in Asia) while also helping with Germany. WWII started out as an embarrassment for our military but by the end, the military had become an effective fighting force. That can and should be a source of pride that doesn't require distorting of the historical record.

The Soviets could not have pushed Germany back to its borders by itself, but of all the allied powers, the Soviets had the best chance to defeat Germany in a ground war. Which they did, more or less, albeit fighting less than 100% of the Germany military. WWII was also the highlight of the Soviet era, though there was less to brag about there given the human rights record of the Soviets as they pushed Germany back. OTOH the Germans committed so many war crimes in Russia and Ukraine that anger and retribution would be a natural reaction. Still, the Soviets didn't care all that much about human life and their treatment of German prisoners showed that.

None of this is to say that the Soviet Union was a model of efficiency. Of course they had to lose so many soldiers. That's how Russia/Soviets have always fought. They try to overwhelm with numbers. Sort of like the "barbarians" who overran Rome. It can be a successful strategy in war. It's gruesome as hell, but attrition is, sadly, an important military concept. It's ultimately how the North won the Civil War, how Russia repelled Napoleon and then Hitler, and in some ways, how the US beat the Japanese. It's definitely how the Vietnamese pushed the US out.
 
superrific said:
What do you mean, it is time. That's been the conventional wisdom among historians for two generations at least.

www.vox.com

The successful 70-year campaign to convince people the USA and not the USSR beat Hitler

Vox is a general interest news site for the 21st century. Its mission: to help everyone understand our complicated world, so that we can all help shape it. In text, video and audio, our reporters explain politics, policy, world affairs, technology, culture, science, the climate crisis, money...
www.vox.com www.vox.com

It was the invasion of the Soviet Union that was the downfall of the Nazis. If Hitler had just kept his part of the non-aggression pact with Stalin, it's doubtful that the US/UK could have dislodged Germany from its dominant position across most of Northern Europe. It would have taken a very long time regardless.

It's almost certain that the US could have not defeated Germany on its own. Of course, that's in part because the US was handling another one of the axis powers, which we defeated all by ourselves (with some minor help from allies in Asia) while also helping with Germany. WWII started out as an embarrassment for our military but by the end, the military had become an effective fighting force. That can and should be a source of pride that doesn't require distorting of the historical record.

The Soviets could not have pushed Germany back to its borders by itself, but of all the allied powers, the Soviets had the best chance to defeat Germany in a ground war. Which they did, more or less, albeit fighting less than 100% of the Germany military. WWII was also the highlight of the Soviet era, though there was less to brag about there given the human rights record of the Soviets as they pushed Germany back. OTOH the Germans committed so many war crimes in Russia and Ukraine that anger and retribution would be a natural reaction. Still, the Soviets didn't care all that much about human life and their treatment of German prisoners showed that.

None of this is to say that the Soviet Union was a model of efficiency. Of course they had to lose so many soldiers. That's how Russia/Soviets have always fought. They try to overwhelm with numbers. Sort of like the "barbarians" who overran Rome. It can be a successful strategy in war. It's gruesome as hell, but attrition is, sadly, an important military concept. It's ultimately how the North won the Civil War, how Russia repelled Napoleon and then Hitler, and in some ways, how the US beat the Japanese. It's definitely how the Vietnamese pushed the US out.
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Very good summary. I was wondering how it's even remotely controversial that the Soviets were at least as responsible as the Western allies were for the defeat of the Nazis in WWII. I've understood that to be true since the first time I started learning about the war from my grandfather in elementary school.
 
Silence Dogood said:


🤣🤣
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He should have to answer to it. On his watch, the Democratic party has managed to forfeit every hand of control of our government—to a cult and the least popular president of all time, who's an anti-Constitution jackwadish snake-oil-medicine salesman with unchecked dementia. Shumer's doing a terrible job and should resign. But the fact that you find such immense glee in this as a "gotcha" moment is a perfect indicator of what a sad, pathetic, little shit of a man you are. Bravo!
 
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lawtig02 said:
Very good summary. I was wondering how it's even remotely controversial that the Soviets were at least as responsible as the Western allies were for the defeat of the Nazis in WWII. I've understood that to be true since the first time I started learning about the war from my grandfather in elementary school.
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If you have to credit one country, it's obviously the Soviets.

MAGA has that weird thing they do where everything has to be all good or all bad in their eyes. Right? Like with "illegals." And now apparently with the history of WWII. The Soviet Union was a bad country, run by bad people, that did bad things. The world got better when the Soviet Union fell (at least temporarily). And yet it's also true that they kicked Hitler's ass. That doesn't make the country great or honorable. It just means that in the early to mid 20th century, sheer manpower was quite the military asset.
 
nycfan said:
IMG_6810.jpeg

Not to quibble, because VE Day is obviously important, but WWII ended for the USA when the Japanese surrendered in August 1945 …

Anyway, May 8 is Victory Day already, Victory in Europe (VE Day), but fine Victory Day it is. November 11 was Armistice Day, then Veteran’s Day and now Victory Day WWI I guess?
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Is this his idea of how to be jerky to Vlad?
 
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