Silence Dogood
Esteemed Member
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Now apply the same logic using those on this forum!
CURRENT EVENTS - May 1 - May 7
- Thread starter nycfan
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superrific
Master of the ZZLverse
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What do you mean, it is time. That's been the conventional wisdom among historians for two generations at least.
The successful 70-year campaign to convince people the USA and not the USSR beat Hitler
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It was the invasion of the Soviet Union that was the downfall of the Nazis. If Hitler had just kept his part of the non-aggression pact with Stalin, it's doubtful that the US/UK could have dislodged Germany from its dominant position across most of Northern Europe. It would have taken a very long time regardless.
It's almost certain that the US could have not defeated Germany on its own. Of course, that's in part because the US was handling another one of the axis powers, which we defeated all by ourselves (with some minor help from allies in Asia) while also helping with Germany. WWII started out as an embarrassment for our military but by the end, the military had become an effective fighting force. That can and should be a source of pride that doesn't require distorting of the historical record.
The Soviets could not have pushed Germany back to its borders by itself, but of all the allied powers, the Soviets had the best chance to defeat Germany in a ground war. Which they did, more or less, albeit fighting less than 100% of the Germany military. WWII was also the highlight of the Soviet era, though there was less to brag about there given the human rights record of the Soviets as they pushed Germany back. OTOH the Germans committed so many war crimes in Russia and Ukraine that anger and retribution would be a natural reaction. Still, the Soviets didn't care all that much about human life and their treatment of German prisoners showed that.
None of this is to say that the Soviet Union was a model of efficiency. Of course they had to lose so many soldiers. That's how Russia/Soviets have always fought. They try to overwhelm with numbers. Sort of like the "barbarians" who overran Rome. It can be a successful strategy in war. It's gruesome as hell, but attrition is, sadly, an important military concept. It's ultimately how the North won the Civil War, how Russia repelled Napoleon and then Hitler, and in some ways, how the US beat the Japanese. It's definitely how the Vietnamese pushed the US out.
lawtig02
Inconceivable Member
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Very good summary. I was wondering how it's even remotely controversial that the Soviets were at least as responsible as the Western allies were for the defeat of the Nazis in WWII. I've understood that to be true since the first time I started learning about the war from my grandfather in elementary school.What do you mean, it is time. That's been the conventional wisdom among historians for two generations at least.
The successful 70-year campaign to convince people the USA and not the USSR beat Hitler
Vox is a general interest news site for the 21st century. Its mission: to help everyone understand our complicated world, so that we can all help shape it. In text, video and audio, our reporters explain politics, policy, world affairs, technology, culture, science, the climate crisis, money...
It was the invasion of the Soviet Union that was the downfall of the Nazis. If Hitler had just kept his part of the non-aggression pact with Stalin, it's doubtful that the US/UK could have dislodged Germany from its dominant position across most of Northern Europe. It would have taken a very long time regardless.
It's almost certain that the US could have not defeated Germany on its own. Of course, that's in part because the US was handling another one of the axis powers, which we defeated all by ourselves (with some minor help from allies in Asia) while also helping with Germany. WWII started out as an embarrassment for our military but by the end, the military had become an effective fighting force. That can and should be a source of pride that doesn't require distorting of the historical record.
The Soviets could not have pushed Germany back to its borders by itself, but of all the allied powers, the Soviets had the best chance to defeat Germany in a ground war. Which they did, more or less, albeit fighting less than 100% of the Germany military. WWII was also the highlight of the Soviet era, though there was less to brag about there given the human rights record of the Soviets as they pushed Germany back. OTOH the Germans committed so many war crimes in Russia and Ukraine that anger and retribution would be a natural reaction. Still, the Soviets didn't care all that much about human life and their treatment of German prisoners showed that.
None of this is to say that the Soviet Union was a model of efficiency. Of course they had to lose so many soldiers. That's how Russia/Soviets have always fought. They try to overwhelm with numbers. Sort of like the "barbarians" who overran Rome. It can be a successful strategy in war. It's gruesome as hell, but attrition is, sadly, an important military concept. It's ultimately how the North won the Civil War, how Russia repelled Napoleon and then Hitler, and in some ways, how the US beat the Japanese. It's definitely how the Vietnamese pushed the US out.
He should have to answer to it. On his watch, the Democratic party has managed to forfeit every hand of control of our government—to a cult and the least popular president of all time, who's an anti-Constitution jackwadish snake-oil-medicine salesman with unchecked dementia. Shumer's doing a terrible job and should resign. But the fact that you find such immense glee in this as a "gotcha" moment is a perfect indicator of what a sad, pathetic, little shit of a man you are. Bravo!
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superrific
Master of the ZZLverse
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If you have to credit one country, it's obviously the Soviets.
MAGA has that weird thing they do where everything has to be all good or all bad in their eyes. Right? Like with "illegals." And now apparently with the history of WWII. The Soviet Union was a bad country, run by bad people, that did bad things. The world got better when the Soviet Union fell (at least temporarily). And yet it's also true that they kicked Hitler's ass. That doesn't make the country great or honorable. It just means that in the early to mid 20th century, sheer manpower was quite the military asset.
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Is this his idea of how to be jerky to Vlad?
Not to quibble, because VE Day is obviously important, but WWII ended for the USA when the Japanese surrendered in August 1945 …
Anyway, May 8 is Victory Day already, Victory in Europe (VE Day), but fine Victory Day it is. November 11 was Armistice Day, then Veteran’s Day and now Victory Day WWI I guess?
ZenMode
Legend of ZZL
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From my home state...
Sentencing for the first of several Gilbert Goons for, among many things, the murder or Preston Lord.
Some incredibly, incredibly sad shit.
ktar.com
Sentencing for the first of several Gilbert Goons for, among many things, the murder or Preston Lord.
Some incredibly, incredibly sad shit.
Preston Lord, Gilbert Goons, East Valley youth violence
Here's a timeline of everything involving Preston Lord, the Gilbert Goons and East Valley youth violence.
ktar.com
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Good. Those jerkoffs have been a terror for years.
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Hating my country not so much hating idiots wide fucking open.
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What does this mean?
Trump is getting ready to write a big f'in check to Ashley Babbitt's family now that he is in charge of the federal government largesse. Maybe we can sick DOGE on the DOJ settling frivolous lawsuits.
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Trump’s Space Budget Reflects Influence of Elon Musk and SpaceX
SpaceX, already one of the biggest NASA and Pentagon contractors, could win billions of dollars in new contracts if President Trump’s budget proposal is approved by Congress.
Elon Musk’s SpaceX Could Make Billions If Trump’s Budget Proposal Is Approved
SpaceX, already one of the biggest NASA and Pentagon contractors, could win billions of dollars in new contracts if President Trump’s budget proposal is approved by Congress.
“… President Trump is delivering on Mr. Musk’s wish list at both NASA and the Pentagon to reorient federal spending on space in a way likely to drive billions of dollars in new business to Mr. Musk’s space technology company, if Congress signs off on the budget plan.
At the Pentagon, Mr. Trump is calling for a massive jump in spending, an extraordinary 13 percent increase, almost entirely through allocations in a Congressional budget reconciliation plan under consideration.
The jump would happen while many other federal agencies would be slashed, in part to supercharge federal spending in two areas where SpaceX is positioned to profit: a vast missile defense system and space missions to Mars and the moon. …”
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Trump administration plans major downsizing at U.S. spy agencies
The planned cuts include 1,200 positions at the CIA, along with thousands more from other parts of the U.S. intelligence community.“… The administration recently informed lawmakers on Capitol Hill that it intends to reduce the CIA’s workforce by about 1,200 personnel over several years and cut thousands more from other parts of the U.S. intelligence community, including at the National Security Agency, a highly secretive service that specializes in cryptology and global electronic espionage, a person familiar with the matter said. The person, like others interviewed, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive matters.
… The CIA does not publicly disclose the size of its workforce, but it is believed to be about 22,000. It is unclear which parts of the spy agency would be most affected. The downsizing is happening even as CIA Director John Ratcliffe has pledged to put more agency resources on China and on cartels smuggling fentanyl and other synthetic drugs into the United States. …”
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Out at the E.P.A.: Independent Scientists. In: Approving New Chemicals.
The Environmental Protection Agency’s administrator, Lee Zeldin, announced the agency was “shifting its scientific expertise.”
Out at the E.P.A.: Independent Scientists. In: Approving New Chemicals.
The Environmental Protection Agency’s administrator, Lee Zeldin, announced the agency was “shifting its scientific expertise.”
“… Administrator Lee Zeldin announced the changes to the E.P.A. in a video, saying the agency was “shifting its scientific expertise” to focus on issues he described as “mission essential.”
Most of the immediate changes will affect the Office of Research and Development, the E.P.A.’s main research arm that conducts studies on things like the health and environmental risks of “forever chemicals” in drinking water and the best way to reduce fine particle pollution in the atmosphere.
An internal document previously reviewed by The New York Times outlined the Trump administration’s recommendation to eliminate that office, with plans to fire as many as 1,155 chemists, biologists, toxicologists and other scientists working on health and environmental research. …”
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