CURRENT EVENTS May 22 - July 5

[CFordUNC]

I find more usefulness in disagreement and debate than I do in being yet another echo in the echo chamber.

There are very few ONLY liberal or ONLY conservative topics. For example, I don't say much about homosexual topics because I almost entirely agree with the consensus view here, though I do find their parades to be ridiculous .....I was pro same-sex marriage before Obama was.

Got it. I sincerely believe that you believe that (and I don’t mean that snarky or sarcastic). But I also believe that were you on a board full of deeply entrenched right wingers, and if you made the exact same posts and the exact same arguments as you do here, they’d think you were a card-carrying dyed-in-the-wool Republican. In other words, aside from a few half-hearted disagreements with Donald Trump’s personality on occasion, little or none of what you post here would make you seem like you disagree with *both* parties as you claim. Your disagreement seems to be 90%+ with one party and one party alone. Which, of course, is totally fine. You absolutely do not have to like Democrats or liberals or anything to be a valued, welcome, important member of this community. It’s just amusing that you think that your posts come across as equally disapproving of both parties. That’s all I’m saying.

I’ve got plenty of disagreements with Democrats/liberals, and far more with Republicans/conservatives, but I don’t think of myself as some enlightened above the fray contrarian. I think of myself as a former conservative turned staunch Democratic voter at present who, even if I don’t consider myself a classical Democrat or liberal, finds it far more useful in this current moment for me to have picked a side instead of straddling the fence- or pretending to do so.

 

[BlueSteel]

He also said in this speech that he hates Democrats - "I really do" - and that he believes that Democrats hate America because they don't support him and his big, beautiful bill. If you're a Democrat I'm sure that will really make you feel patriotic and safe and confident about your future, and on the Fourth of July, no less.

Maybe it’s just me, but it’s my opinion that any U.S. president openly admitting that he hates half of his countrymen because of their political party should be immediately impeached.

Can you imagine if Joe Biden or Barack Obama had said that? The RWM talking heads would explode.

 

[BlueSteel]

So, if most of what you post is an opposition of the liberal viewpoint, and if you are primarily animated by the issue of transgender people- as the seemingly majority of your posts are about such- does it not stand to reason that you are carrying the water of the Republican Party?

With all due respect to both of you—and I really do enjoy both of your contributions to the board—can you please consider taking this shit fight somewhere else? I’m trying to focus my attention on Trump being a complete and total asshole. Thanks.

 

[superrific]

So, if most of what you post is an opposition of the liberal viewpoint, and if you are primarily animated by the issue of transgender people- as the seemingly majority of your posts are about such- does it not stand to reason that you are carrying the water of the Republican Party?

Also, it's obviously not about the deficit.

 

[finesse]

With all due respect to both of you—and I really do enjoy both of your contributions to the board—can you please consider taking this shit fight somewhere else? I’m trying to focus my attention on Trump being a complete and total asshole. Thanks.

If your attention ever drifts, he'll give you a reminder.

 

[Calheel]

I find more usefulness in disagreement

The truest thing ever spoken on this board.

 

[heelinhell]

Right. Like I said, I've given up on both parties as relates to fiscal responsibility.

Have you looked at Clinton's fiscal responsibility over his two terms following Poppy Bush ?

Have you looked at Obama's fiscal responsibility over his two terms following GWB ?

Have you looked at Biden's fiscal responsibility following Trump 1.0 ?

Don't give up on "both parties" Give up on one party...

 

[superrific]

Don't give up on "both parties" Give up on one party...

It's not about the deficit. He doesn't give a shit about that. It is always about identity for these mooks. They cheer cuts to Medicaid and SNAP because they think it will hurt minorities. Every single political position they take involves hurting people who do not identify as white and straight. There's nothing more to it than that.

 

[stankeylegjones]

It's not about the deficit. He doesn't give a shit about that. It is always about identity for these mooks. They cheer cuts to Medicaid and SNAP because they think it will hurt minorities. Every single political position they take involves hurting people who do not identify as white and straight. There's nothing more to it than that.

There are a lot of white and straight folks that this bill is going to hurt - poor, rural folks are going to feel the brunt of this horrible fucking thing. Ironic, since many of them voted for this piece of shit.

 

[superrific]

There are a lot of white and straight folks that this bill is going to hurt - poor, rural folks are going to feel the brunt of this horrible fucking thing. Ironic, since many of them voted for this piece of shit.

I'm aware of that, but that's not who Rammy or bo are thinking about. And minorities will be disproportionately affected anyway.

 

[finesse]

Have you looked at Clinton's fiscal responsibility over his two terms following Poppy Bush ?

Have you looked at Obama's fiscal responsibility over his two terms following GWB ?

Have you looked at Biden's fiscal responsibility following Trump 1.0 ?

Don't give up on "both parties" Give up on one party...

Just in case you think it's close.

For well over a decade economists and other social scientists have documented a strong advantage in economic performance during Democratic administrations. A new Economic Policy Institute report updates this work to the latest data available and confirms that this Democratic advantage persists. Positive indicators like growth in gross domestic product (GDP), income, and wages are faster, while negative indicators like unemployment, inflation, and interest rates are lower. Further, the fruits of economic growth are distributed substantially more equally under Democratic presidents.

In particular, the report finds that since 1949:

• Annual real GDP growth is 1.2 percentage points faster during Democratic administrations than Republican ones (3.79% versus 2.60%).
• Total job growth has averaged 2.5% annually during Democratic administrations, while it is barely over 1% annually during Republican administrations. Applied to today’s total workforce, this would imply nearly 2.4 million more jobs created every year under Democratic administrations.
• The Democratic advantage is even larger in private job growth than it is for total job growth. Notably, business investment is higher during Democratic administrations, with investment growth running at more than double the pace than it does during Republican ones.
• Average rates of inflation—both overall and “core” measures that exclude volatile food and energy prices—are slightly lower during Democratic administrations.
• Families in the bottom 20% of the income distribution experience 188% faster income growth during Democratic administrations.

The data in this report do not claim to measure the causal effect of partisan White House control on economic performance. The president does not have total control over the economy, and luck and chance can determine economic outcomes. Yet, the Democratic advantage in economic performance by partisan control of the presidency is striking. And given how clear the data are, it is striking that public opinion polling has consistently shown that voters rate Republicans more highly as the party that is better at managing the economy.

 

[Mulberry Heel]

Just in case you think it's close.

For well over a decade economists and other social scientists have documented a strong advantage in economic performance during Democratic administrations. A new Economic Policy Institute report updates this work to the latest data available and confirms that this Democratic advantage persists. Positive indicators like growth in gross domestic product (GDP), income, and wages are faster, while negative indicators like unemployment, inflation, and interest rates are lower. Further, the fruits of economic growth are distributed substantially more equally under Democratic presidents.

In particular, the report finds that since 1949:

• Annual real GDP growth is 1.2 percentage points faster during Democratic administrations than Republican ones (3.79% versus 2.60%).
• Total job growth has averaged 2.5% annually during Democratic administrations, while it is barely over 1% annually during Republican administrations. Applied to today’s total workforce, this would imply nearly 2.4 million more jobs created every year under Democratic administrations.
• The Democratic advantage is even larger in private job growth than it is for total job growth. Notably, business investment is higher during Democratic administrations, with investment growth running at more than double the pace than it does during Republican ones.
• Average rates of inflation—both overall and “core” measures that exclude volatile food and energy prices—are slightly lower during Democratic administrations.
• Families in the bottom 20% of the income distribution experience 188% faster income growth during Democratic administrations.

The data in this report do not claim to measure the causal effect of partisan White House control on economic performance. The president does not have total control over the economy, and luck and chance can determine economic outcomes. Yet, the Democratic advantage in economic performance by partisan control of the presidency is striking. And given how clear the data are, it is striking that public opinion polling has consistently shown that voters rate Republicans more highly as the party that is better at managing the economy.

At this point relentless bosiding and insisting that both parties are equally bad is just as myopic and unrealistic as being a blind Trumper. If Clinton or Obama or Biden had done and said the things that Trump has they would have been ridden out of DC on a rail, and we'd likely have riots in the streets. Only one party has become a cult of personality (and no, the Democrats were never as slavishly loyal to Obama or Clinton or Biden as Republicans have been with Trump) and the double standard between Republicans and Democrats has reached Grand Canyon-level proportions. To be a bosider is to blindly ignore any realistic comparisons between the two parties and their leaders and policies. Period. And I strongly suspect that nearly all bosiders are secret Trumpers who know how it sounds to say they support Trump, but if they can say "a pox on both your houses!" then it will provide some public justification for voting for and supporting Dear Leader. Or at least that's what I've always suspected.

 

[ZenMode]

Have you looked at Clinton's fiscal responsibility over his two terms following Poppy Bush ?

Yep. I've mentioned Clinton as the last fiscally responsible president several times including in this thread.

Have you looked at Obama's fiscal responsibility over his two terms following GWB ?

That doesn't strike me as being true.

Have you looked at Biden's fiscal responsibility following Trump 1.0 ?

Non-existent. He gave out largely unneeded covid checks and tried to forgive a trillion+ dollars in student loan debt...to name a few things.

Don't give up on "both parties" Give up on one party...

 

[superrific]

Obama inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression. We had to pump $700B into the financial system just to keep it afloat. GM and Chrysler were literally in bankruptcy.

And by the time he left office, he had implemented universal health care -- or as close as the Supremes and the GOP would let him -- while cutting the deficit by half.

If Trump had just kept the deficit at that level, we'd be in decent financial shape.

But both sides, you know.

 

[heelinhell]

Yep. I've mentioned Clinton as the last fiscally responsible president several times including in this thread.

That doesn't strike me as being true.

Non-existent. He gave out largely unneeded covid checks and tried to forgive a trillion+ dollars in student loan debt...to name a few things.

Have you looked at Obama's fiscal responsibility over his two terms following GWB ?

"That doesn't strike me as being true."

Budget deficit was cut in half since Obama took office


Have you looked at Biden's fiscal responsibility following Trump 1.0 ?

"Non-existent. He gave out largely unneeded covid checks and tried to forgive a trillion+ dollars in student loan debt...to name a few things."

Biden added half the amount to the national debt as Trump did.

and of course under Biden the cost was to rescue working and middle class families who were in dire straights, and under Trump the cost was to cut taxes for 1%ers and corporations...

 

[1moretimeagain]

Yep. I've mentioned Clinton as the last fiscally responsible president several times including in this thread.

That doesn't strike me as being true.

Non-existent. He gave out largely unneeded covid checks and tried to forgive a trillion+ dollars in student loan debt...to name a few things.

One thing about 2025, a lot of things can be looked up very quickly.

The deficit at the end of Obama’s term was less than half of the deficit he inherited from W Bush.

The deficit at the end of Biden’s term was around half of the deficit he inherited from Trump.

 

[ZenMode]

"That doesn't strike me as being true."

Budget deficit was cut in half since Obama took office


Have you looked at Biden's fiscal responsibility following Trump 1.0 ?

"Non-existent. He gave out largely unneeded covid checks and tried to forgive a trillion+ dollars in student loan debt...to name a few things."

Biden added half the amount to the national debt as Trump did.

and of course under Biden the cost was to rescue working and middle class families who were in dire straights, and under Trump the cost was to cut taxes for 1%ers and corporations...

"
Biden added half the amount to the national debt as Trump did."

Yes, but less bad isn't the same as responsible.

Clinton was in the responsible range, IMO.

 

[superrific]

Yes, but less bad isn't the same as responsible.

A perfect description of ZenMode. You are less bad than some of the true idiots here.

 

[heelinhell]

"
Biden added half the amount to the national debt as Trump did."

Yes, but less bad isn't the same as responsible.

Clinton was in the responsible range, IMO.

You do know Trump inherited a very good economy in 2017 and proceeded to trash it while adding over 8 trillion to the national debt, no ?

You do know Biden inherited a crap economy and put us back on the road to recovery ( which Trump inherited this year ) , no ?

I submit that this was not a case of "less bad " . Rather it was a case of gross irresponsibility that was corrected by sober and astute responsibility.

 

[nycfan]