Diddy Arrested

. . .. A question for the lawyers -- . . .. I'm just curious. I am sure criminal lawyers can rationalize it to themselves by thinking it is my job and the charged is entitled to my best effort. . . ..
A long time ago, when I was in law school, my criminal law professor addressed the exact question you posed. He said as a starting point that the American system of freedom and justice was dependent on everyone having legal representation when charged with a crime. Not just the chosen few who the legal elite deemed worthy of representation, but everyone.

However, he added, IIRC, "You have to have personal boundaries that are narrow enough so some defendants are not denied representation." He gave himself, who did pro bono work, as an example of the type of absurd thinking that goes into such line drawing. He said that he had once represented, pro bono, a man accused of murdering and raping a woman. He said it wasn't until he had confirmed that the rape occurred after the murder that he agreed to represent the suspect. He said the distinction he drew in that case was absurd and meaningless, but he stressed that these sort of meaningless distinctions were important for maintaining any sort self-respect, which he deemed particularly important for the legal profession. In his case, he refused to represent anyone who had raped a woman while she was alive. He added that he knew there were lawyers who would represent men accused of sexually assaulting women, so his refusal to do so was not denying such men legal counsel.
 
That actually brings up even more questions. But I won't derail from Diddy's wanton sexual proclivities and recent charges.

Hey, maybe I'll dig up Super's failed attempt at starting a thread for non-lawyer questions and discussions. It was sad watching him talk to himself, when he was just offering to provide a useful service.
 
The feds don't typically bring these types of charges without strong evidence but this might be a tough case.

He's a music mogul. Sex and drugs come with that lifestyle and there are plenty of men and women that want it.

So did he drug them like roofies in their cocktails or more like ecstasy and coke on the table?

Did he bring them across state lines willingly or were they willing and then decided maybe the orgy was more than they wanted and became unwilling? Did he kidnap them?

This doesn't sound like a Cosby situation but maybe it is. I don't think underage is an issue so no Epstein or R Kelly. Maybe Weinstein? "Being at this sex and drug party will help your music career."

My best guess is he was bringing women to the parties with the promise of a music career but he really wanted them there for the sex and to influence the acts he really wanted to sign.
 
The feds don't typically bring these types of charges without strong evidence but this might be a tough case.

He's a music mogul. Sex and drugs come with that lifestyle and there are plenty of men and women that want it.

So did he drug them like roofies in their cocktails or more like ecstasy and coke on the table?

Did he bring them across state lines willingly or were they willing and then decided maybe the orgy was more than they wanted and became unwilling? Did he kidnap them?

This doesn't sound like a Cosby situation but maybe it is. I don't think underage is an issue so no Epstein or R Kelly. Maybe Weinstein? "Being at this sex and drug party will help your music career."

My best guess is he was bringing women to the parties with the promise of a music career but he really wanted them there for the sex and to influence the acts he really wanted to sign.
All of this is public information. 14 pages double spaced. Take you 5 minutes tops.

 
All of this is public information. 14 pages double spaced. Take you 5 minutes tops.

Ty.

Sounds like he brought the women to the sex parties with promises of romance or career help. He kept them there with threats to their careers and physical violence.

The sex trafficking appears to be bringing male prostitutes in to have sex with the girls as he watched, sometimes participated and sometimes videoed. If someone like hotel staff saw something, he or his crew would threaten them with violence and lawsuits.
I think he's going down. I think the violence is what will do him in and should.
 
Men were involved, but they were paid sex workers as I read it.
Yes, basically the R Kelly ruse of pretending to be interested in the girl with the twist of then getting them stuck in a weird drug-fueled sex marathon with male prostitutes that Diddy would watch and “direct.”

This is truly bizarre.
 
Diddy in big trouble. Details leaking out now. It is vile and inhumane, the charges and accusations.

I fully respect our system (well the core tenets of it, not the subversion and unjust priviledge of many including Trump). I know that he is innocent until proven guilty. I also know that he is entitled to fair representation, and with his money he can afford well beyond fair.

But I also know prosecutors, and the FBI, do not bring charges without ample evidence, especially against a high profile citizen.

Someone or some group has to represent him. A question for the lawyers -- would you represent someone you knew was guilty, and if usually not, would you make exceptions for a huge payday and attention?

I'm just curious. I am sure criminal lawyers can rationalize it to themselves by thinking it is my job and the charged is entitled to my best effort. But you've got to go out there and say stuff like Diddy's lawyers are already doing. Paraphrasing, "He is an icon in his field, he has done so much for the black community. He is not perfect, but he is not a criminal." You've got to attack his victims and add to their trauma. It is not just prostitution, it is drugging and forcing into group sexual acts, assault, kidnapping (or holding against their will, etc.)

I could not do it, if I knew he was guilty and I got him cleared, knowing the details of what the victims went through.

Of course there is the possibility his legal team believes he is innocent and will believe it through all the evidence. But I am skeptical.
The defense is trying to humanize him...as for the question of representation I combined my response to you with my response to 05

The one thing I absolutly HATE is when lawyers attack the victims. The rest of the stuff you mention is just legal fluff that every defense attorney does even when their in court.

A long time ago, when I was in law school, my criminal law professor addressed the exact question you posed. He said as a starting point that the American system of freedom and justice was dependent on everyone having legal representation when charged with a crime. Not just the chosen few who the legal elite deemed worthy of representation, but everyone.

However, he added, IIRC, "You have to have personal boundaries that are narrow enough so some defendants are not denied representation." He gave himself, who did pro bono work, as an example of the type of absurd thinking that goes into such line drawing. He said that he had once represented, pro bono, a man accused of murdering and raping a woman. He said it wasn't until he had confirmed that the rape occurred after the murder that he agreed to represent the suspect. He said the distinction he drew in that case was absurd and meaningless, but he stressed that these sort of meaningless distinctions were important for maintaining any sort self-respect, which he deemed particularly important for the legal profession. In his case, he refused to represent anyone who had raped a woman while she was alive. He added that he knew there were lawyers who would represent men accused of sexually assaulting women, so his refusal to do so was not denying such men legal counsel.
Wait...what? Isn't post murder rape a legal imposibility? I mean, admittidly it's been a few weeks since I was a 1L taking Crim Law but I don't remember any jurisdicition where the rape statute includes carnal relations with a corpse. Wouldn't that be like desecration of a dead body or something similar?

Am I misremembering? (honestly asking, not trying to be a dick)

As to the subject of your post and krafty's question. I agree with you and your prof (the above notwithstanding). Some do have that line in the sand others don't. I was never really presented with the issue but I don't think I would have an issue with the defense simply because I don't need to know. My job as a defense attorney is to make sure the state proves their case and it isn't just bring BS charges. I'm neither required to call witnesses nor present a different set of facts. I'm also not required to poke holes in or argue against evidence being admitted so as long as the foundation is laid and it doesn't violate other rules of evidence.

A defense can still be ethically proper even if it's just making sure the state does their job.
 
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