dook Biorhythms, Round Two, 6:30 Start in The Dean E. Smith Center (Now With Blood)

[HintonJamesHeel]

I guess that decides it.

Like it or not,

Isn't it possible that we've had this great run but it's our turn to return to mediocrity?

We’ve had a 70 year run that spanned a lot of coaches. We will turn it around.

 

[superrific]

Coaches have stated that portal recruiting is now a year-round job.

Players and their agents have stated that they start hearing of interest for the next year in December, especially if the player starts the season playing well and now appears to be ready to move up (by team, conference, and/or NIL deal).

I’d bet that agents of players looking to move up/cash in are communicating in some way weekly with schools they know could be a good landing spot for their client(s). (For instance, everyone in CBB knew that Bacot’s was gone this year and we’d need a starting big.)

Also, a lot of player agents in CBB aren’t at major firms, they’re guys who are either close to a particular player or trying to use CBB players to move up in the agent world. In either case, I’m guessing most are willing to put some time in to assist their client and/or build their reputation.

1. I don't have any information or insight here, other than deductions from vague and non-specific knowledge. So all I have is skepticism.

2. The original claim was that there's no reason to test the portal because you can find out that information before hand. I'm still skeptical. I don't doubt that the Dalton Knechts are getting recruited mid-season or earlier. But there are just so many players -- there's no way that any coach could handle that volume.

That is to say, there surely has to be some value in declaring for the portal. At the very least, it's an indication that the player does in fact want to move, which helps coaches at other schools narrow down their film study, scouting, etc. I don't think you'd put a ton of effort into scouting unless you know the player is serious about moving. An agent -- especially a new, small-time agent -- isn't going to be able to provide a satisfactory verbal assurance of that. And coaches aren't going to necessarily be super-forthcoming either. Why would they say, "we're completely not interested?"

3. High school recruiting was year-round, and I suspect portal recruitment has filled in much of that. So I'd imagine a lot of the "weekly phone calls," are of the sort that used to happen in high school recruiting. It's focusing on the players you want, not necessarily scouting the world in December. But I don't really know.

 

[finesse]

Like it or not,

We’ve had a 70 year run that spanned a lot of coaches. We will turn it around.

What's this 70 year garbage?


In 1921, the school joined the Southern Conference.<a href="North Carolina Tar Heels men's basketball - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>20<span>]</span></a> Overall, the Tar Heels played 32 seasons in the Southern Conference from 1921 to 1953. During that period, they won 304 games and lost 111 for a winning percentage of 73.3%. The Tar Heels won the Southern Conference regular season title 9 times and the Southern Conference tournament 8 times.

 

[Calheel]

2. The original claim was that there's no reason to test the portal because you can find out that information before hand. I'm still skeptical. I don't doubt that the Dalton Knechts are getting recruited mid-season or earlier. But there are just so many players -- there's no way that any coach could handle that volume.

That is to say, there surely has to be some value in declaring for the portal.

The original claim was that you could "test the portal" without declaring for the portal. A claim that made no sense.

Of course it is true that free agent discussions heat up during portal season. But it is naive to think those discussions aren't going on before and after the official portal window.

 

[CFordUNC]

Something about which I’ve been wondering is how a school like Carolina who wants to remain elite in basketball and wants to become elite in football, can thread that needle from a financial standpoint, at least while we are in our current conference predicament. Resources are finite. Presumably it will be the same pool of donors and supporters whom the university will need to theoretically ensure that 1. we can build a brand new basketball arena, and 2. can compete at the very top of both football and basketball in the revenue sharing and NIL spaces. Carolina has some deep pocketed folks, but even deep pocketed folks have their limitations, either from a capacity standpoint or an inclination standpoint.

 

[mpaer]

Something about which I’ve been wondering is how a school like Carolina who wants to remain elite in basketball and wants to become elite in football, can thread that needle from a financial standpoint, at least while we are in our current conference predicament. Resources are finite. Presumably it will be the same pool of donors and supporters whom the university will need to theoretically ensure that 1. we can build a brand new basketball arena, and 2. can compete at the very top of both football and basketball in the revenue sharing and NIL spaces. Carolina has some deep pocketed folks, but even deep pocketed folks have their limitations, either from a capacity standpoint or an inclination standpoint.

"hoping " we can push deep pockets for a couple years...Then if if looks like P-2 happening in a couple more-well an enticement for couple more years of deep pockets That 5--600 whatever arena
Thats a whole new level of magic

 

[Ramrouser]

Hubert isn’t going to make it. I’d give it a 15% chance. When you don’t know by year 4, it’s not going to work out. The iso ball nonsense has spread and isn’t going away. There might be some good results here and there but Hubert is likely gone after next year and I’d be stunned if he’s here 3-4 years from now.

Sadly, this. There is so much more uncertainty this offseason vs last season and look at the results. I feel like the PTB felt like they couldn't fire him this season because of last season's success and because it was such a total systems failure that our bb program failed to land a quality big man in the portal. Now, they're determined to give Hubert everything he needs for next season to give him a last chance. The problem is that we have so many needs in light of the anticipated departures.

Everyone likes Hubert but is the fanbase going to put up with missing the tourney 2 straight seasons and 3 out of 4 years?

By June, my opinion may change if Turner can work some miracles.

 

[CFordUNC]

"hoping " we can push deep pockets for a couple years...Then if if looks like P-2 happening in a couple more-well an enticement for couple more years of deep pockets That 5--600 whatever arena
Thats a whole new level of magic

Agreed. That’s definitely got to be the hope, that we are going to wind up in the SEC or the Big Ten and the nearly limitless financial windfall that would follow.

 

[Ramrouser]

Something about which I’ve been wondering is how a school like Carolina who wants to remain elite in basketball and wants to become elite in football, can thread that needle from a financial standpoint, at least while we are in our current conference predicament. Resources are finite. Presumably it will be the same pool of donors and supporters whom the university will need to theoretically ensure that 1. we can build a brand new basketball arena, and 2. can compete at the very top of both football and basketball in the revenue sharing and NIL spaces. Carolina has some deep pocketed folks, but even deep pocketed folks have their limitations, either from a capacity standpoint or an inclination standpoint.

I think they know something, i.e. they know we're going to land in the SEC/BIG in the next 4 to 5 years and they can take it to the bank. They then just needed to convince the finite amount of donors to fund both programs to get us to the Promised Land. There's got to be a plan not simply open ended check writing for time immemorial.

I saw Roberts (briefly) at a UNC function in ATL last week and I asked him about the FSU/Clemson settlement. He said "well the NYT said the big winner is UNC."

I asked: does that mean we're headed to the SEC? Roberts said "we have options" and winked.

 

[Calheel]

Something about which I’ve been wondering is how a school like Carolina who wants to remain elite in basketball and wants to become elite in football, can thread that needle from a financial standpoint, at least while we are in our current conference predicament. Resources are finite. Presumably it will be the same pool of donors and supporters whom the university will need to theoretically ensure that 1. we can build a brand new basketball arena, and 2. can compete at the very top of both football and basketball in the revenue sharing and NIL spaces. Carolina has some deep pocketed folks, but even deep pocketed folks have their limitations, either from a capacity standpoint or an inclination standpoint.

There is much more overlap with traditional football powers and basketball success now.

Bama, Florida, Auburn all have top 10 basketball and CFB championships this millennium. If Bama can afford it, so can we. It is just a matter of having the right organization in place.

 

[CFordUNC]

I think they know something, i.e. they know we're going to land in the SEC/BIG in the next 4 to 5 years and they can take it to the bank. They then just needed to convince the finite amount of donors to fund both programs to get us to the Promised Land. There's got to be a plan not simply open ended check writing for time immemorial.

I saw Roberts (briefly) at a UNC function in ATL last week and I asked him about the FSU/Clemson settlement. He said "well the NYT said the big winner is UNC."

I asked: does that mean we're headed to the SEC? Roberts said "we have options" and winked.

I’m with you, I definitely think they are really confident about our ultimate landing spot!

 

[CFordUNC]

There is much more overlap with traditional football powers and basketball success now.

Bama, Florida, Auburn all have top 10 basketball and CFB championships this millennium. If Bama can afford it, so can we. It is just a matter of having the right organization in place.

Strictly from a dollars and cents standpoint, I agree that if Alabama and Auburn can afford it, so can Carolina- but I don’t think Carolina ever going to have the institutional appetite to fund and win at all costs the way that those two schools do. To be clear, I find no fault whatsoever with how Alabama and Auburn allocate their resources. The leaders of those schools know far more than I do about how to best allocate resources. Alabama raised $1 billion specifically for athletics in their most recently completed Rising Tide campaign which was essentially more than the entire rest of the university raised combined. Carolina recently raised $1 billion specifically for need-based student scholarship aid in our most recently completed campaign.

That said, I don’t have much worry or concern that UNC is it going to do everything that it reasonably can to be really good in both sports. I think the current leaders of the university know and understand the positive ramifications that can and will come for the entire university if athletics are healthy.

 

[Bigs23]

The original claim was that you could "test the portal" without declaring for the portal. A claim that made no sense.

Of course it is true that free agent discussions heat up during portal season. But it is naive to think those discussions aren't going on before and after the official portal window.

Same thing. “Testing the portal”= identifying your options

 

[superrific]

The original claim was that you could "test the portal" without declaring for the portal. A claim that made no sense.

Of course it is true that free agent discussions heat up during portal season. But it is naive to think those discussions aren't going on before and after the official portal window.

Oh. I guess I didn't read carefully enough. I do not think that there are no conversations except during the portal.

 

[duluoz]

The original claim was that you could "test the portal" without declaring for the portal. A claim that made no sense.

Yes the claim did make sense, with any bit of reasonable contextual comprehension instead of literal semantics that have dragged on for pages now.

It didn’t take an intellectual giant to infer that he meant “feel out” the portal instead of “enter and declare for the portal.”

But feel free to keep carrying on and on and on.

 

[SnoopRob]

1. I don't have any information or insight here, other than deductions from vague and non-specific knowledge. So all I have is skepticism.

2. The original claim was that there's no reason to test the portal because you can find out that information before hand. I'm still skeptical. I don't doubt that the Dalton Knechts are getting recruited mid-season or earlier. But there are just so many players -- there's no way that any coach could handle that volume.

That is to say, there surely has to be some value in declaring for the portal. At the very least, it's an indication that the player does in fact want to move, which helps coaches at other schools narrow down their film study, scouting, etc. I don't think you'd put a ton of effort into scouting unless you know the player is serious about moving. An agent -- especially a new, small-time agent -- isn't going to be able to provide a satisfactory verbal assurance of that. And coaches aren't going to necessarily be super-forthcoming either. Why would they say, "we're completely not interested?"

3. High school recruiting was year-round, and I suspect portal recruitment has filled in much of that. So I'd imagine a lot of the "weekly phone calls," are of the sort that used to happen in high school recruiting. It's focusing on the players you want, not necessarily scouting the world in December. But I don't really know.

I would say that players who want to move up probably are having their agents reach out to teams they think might be good options no later than mid-season for the next year. They want their agent to get them on the radar of teams who could be good for them the next year to ensure the team knows to look at them.

And the best teams are certainly scouring lower levels for players who would be in a position to move up, likely starting from the very earliest weeks of each season. That's not to say they're inherently watching every lower level game looking for talent, but there are certainly ways, such as looking at the conference leaders for the mid-majors, to identify players who are likely to want to transfer to a better school. (And there are all sorts of advanced metrics that could be employed to identify these kinds of players.)

I think declaring for the portal only happens once a player is interested in transferring, but the groundwork has been laid far before the portal open in many cases. Of course, some players enter the player with the "no contact" tag attached so that schools shouldn't contact them. In those cases, plus others, it's pretty obvious by how fast the process goes that these players knew what they were doing before they ever entered the portal.

As far as agents and schools go, I'm sure in many cases both sides are bluffing a bit and hiding their true intentions, but they are going to be forthcoming enough so that they don't blow up the relationship. As we both know, there are ways of saying "we're not really interested" while totally not saying "we're not really interested". I would guess that would be happening. I would also guess there are players every year who think they have a number of interested schools who learn fairly quickly that the interest isn't as real as they thought. And schools who think they have a player nearly locked down who isn't nearly as locked down once the portal opens. But that's just the nature of recruiting.

 

[HintonJamesHeel]

What's this 70 year garbage?


In 1921, the school joined the Southern Conference.<a href="North Carolina Tar Heels men's basketball - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>20<span>]</span></a> Overall, the Tar Heels played 32 seasons in the Southern Conference from 1921 to 1953. During that period, they won 304 games and lost 111 for a winning percentage of 73.3%. The Tar Heels won the Southern Conference regular season title 9 times and the Southern Conference tournament 8 times.

Undefeated and NC in 1957 (67 years ago).
Dean showed up in 1961.