Epstein Files | Ghislaine Maxwell

[Centerpiece]

That’s a clever line but also misses the point.
The problem isn’t just who’s inclusive or who talks the loudest, it’s that the liberal media often fails to address real economic and social concerns. That’s why folks drift to Rogan, Von, or others who might be “mountebanks” but speak in a way that feels authentic or relatable.

It’s less about polish and more about connection and substance.

Give some examples of liberal media… and how they fail to address “real” economic and social concerns. Links?

 

[gtyellowjacket]

Compare his record to any director since Hoover and it's clear that he's far less qualified and far more politicized than any other person to hold the office.

Okay. What does that have to do with him going on a podcast to get his message across? It seems like you were trying to make up arguments that no one is making.

 

[finesse]

Okay. What does that have to do with him going on a podcast to get his message across? It seems like you were trying to make up arguments that no one is making.

It has to do with the idea that his position doesn't have a message to sell to the public. He has a professional obligation to the public to fulfill instead. Campaigning in support of Trump is not part of that.

 

[Centerpiece]

You do realize that almost every single one of those came out of the same Republican think tanks and rightwing media foundations that Democrats have been literally the only ones to challenge. Can you you tell me what's wrong with this picture when the lying bastards who caused the damage get the benefit? That's almost as bad as ignoring how bad for the economy the Republicans have been in virtually everyway for the last 75 years.

This^
It was - and is - the Pubs who are/were the bad guys. Nixon, Reagan (Iran/Contra), Bush I, Bush II, Trump I, Trump II

And any of today’s “truth tellers” (WTF is that?) on their “podcasts” or right wing radio shows who purport to be influencers and to be “telling the truth” aren’t doing anybody any favors.

 

[WaynetheDrain]

Politicians want to get their message out so they go to the media forums that are consumed by the people they want to deliver that message to. Its not unprecedented.

You’re comparing a comedy bit with Zach G to an appearance on Joe Rogan’s podcast?

1. Those two are not the same. One deals in comedy, and one deals in conspiracy theories and deception.

2. Even if Obama or Trump appeared on a podcast of their choosing to spread their agenda, I’d have no problem with it because they are the POTUS. It’s a political office and they are expected to spread their message any way they can. The Director of the FBI doing the same is not acceptable because they are expected to be impartial. This is what we are talking about.

 

[heelinhell]

But as an aside...wonder if a 21st century J. Edgar Hoover would appear on Rogan?

If he did, I'm pretty sure he would not wear one of his dresses...

 

[donbosco]

I’ve tried to post a lot of my alt media sources on the podcast thread over time. Mehdi Hasan is great. After leaving MSNBC, he launched Zeteo. They do really great work over there.

I’ll just list a few of my main alt media sources here for posterity:

Zeteo
Dropsite News
The Majority Report (more entertainment but also does straight news and interviews with academics, journalists, etc.)
Know Your Enemy
American Prestige
Hasan Piker
Doomscroll w/ Josh Citarella
Jacobin

There is some really great audio and written content coming out of these spaces. Better than anything you will hear on cable news and even places like NPR in my opinion.

Very much appreciated. I owe you.

 

[wmheel1287]

Here are a few patterns I’ve noticed:

Too much personality politics, not enough structural analysis. Outlets like MSNBC and CNN spend hours dissecting the latest Trump soundbite or political gaffe, but they spend far less time talking about things like wage stagnation, corporate consolidation, or housing policy. It's politics as theater rather than substance.

Labor movements get short shrift. Huge strikes and union drives like those at Amazon, Starbucks, and among teachers often get ignored until they boil over into a national story. Even then, coverage is usually surface-level. There’s rarely sustained reporting on the conditions that led to the unrest in the first place.

Coverage often reflects an upper-middle-class worldview. Liberal media can be great on cultural representation but often substitutes that for economic justice. Pretty obvious why this is the case when you see who owns these cable outlets.

Too many corporate-friendly experts. On healthcare, for example, liberal media tends to elevate voices that push tweaks around the edges like a public option while ignoring or marginalizing Medicare for All advocates. There’s a reason the Overton window on these issues shifts slowly, if at all.

This isn’t to say liberal media is the enemy. But people tune out for a reason. These blind spots matter, especially when they affect people’s material reality. When we handwave those failures, we just feed the broader crisis of institutional trust.

On an entirely different note, if you are coming to the Bosh today, you should come to the tailgate party and hang out with us and all the player's families.

 

[Icky Mettle]

Politicians want to get their message out so they go to the media forums that are consumed by the people they want to deliver that message to. Its not unprecedented.

He’s not a politician. He’s an FBI Director.

ETA: Sorry. I see others beat me to it.

 

[heelinhell]

He’s not a politician. He’s an FBI Director.

I saw that Between Two Ferns episode. It was all in good fun with Zach goofing on Obama. It is hilarious

My favorite Zach question was, "What's it feel like being the last black president ? "

 

[StrangePackage]

How is it dishonest? It’s not scripted or edited or soundbited, no? You get to hear the guy speak and judge for yourself with no middleman.

Because their guests are frequently lying or just deeply misinformated. And they have no editorial process to address those issues.

 

[farce©]

This clip of Von and Vance exemplifies the dynamic I was talking about. Von seems to genuinely care about the carnage in Gaza, but he doesn’t have a journalistic bone in his body. There’s no pressing Vance on the issue, and Von’s listeners are done a disservice by this. I can parse these things with the knowledge I have, most listeners of these pods cannot.

For that reason, we can’t allow the right to monopolize the podcast space. Dems need to embrace left independent media.

Democrats don’t appear on podcasts?

 

[McAdooSmackinYou]

lol at CNN being liberal media

 

[heelinhell]

On an entirely different note, if you are coming to the Bosh today, you should come to the tailgate party and hang out with us and all the player's families.

I attended a few several years ago. I had season tickets and my name is on the Bosh wall.

You were/are a gracious host. I haven't been to a game since Covid but follow the Heels on IC, here, and GoHeels.com. I will be watching on tv with two buddies and havefor a trip to Omaha !

 

[Centerpiece]

A lot of people hear "liberal media" and assume it means "media that blindly supports Democrats 100% of the time." That’s not what I mean. CNN is liberal media, not because it pushes progressive policy, but because it represents a particular kind of institutional liberalism: pro-business, technocratic, and deferential to authority.

Yes, it sometimes criticizes Democrats, but it does so from a position within the establishment, not from outside it. That’s part of its brand: maintaining the illusion of objectivity while generally reinforcing the status quo. And yes, it features conservative voices, but that’s not a contradiction. The spectrum on CNN tends to run from centrist liberal to Never Trump Republican. What’s excluded are voices that seriously challenge corporate power, permanent war, or deep economic inequality from the left.

The United States is not the worst globally but it is 31st in education in 2024. Listening to Podcasts ain't helping. Read Reuters and AP if you want news. Watch cable TV and listen to podcasts if you want entertainment and be fed misinformation. Best thing? Travel. See the world. Live in another country for a while.

ETA: It ain't the Dems fault... but a ton of blame can be laid at the feet of Pubs and the Rush/O'Reilly/Joe Rogan Klan.

 

[heelinhell]

A lot of people hear "liberal media" and assume it means "media that blindly supports Democrats 100% of the time." That’s not what I mean. CNN is liberal media, not because it pushes progressive policy, but because it represents a particular kind of institutional liberalism: pro-business, technocratic, and deferential to authority.

Yes, it sometimes criticizes Democrats, but it does so from a position within the establishment, not from outside it. That’s part of its brand: maintaining the illusion of objectivity while generally reinforcing the status quo. And yes, it features conservative voices, but that’s not a contradiction. The spectrum on CNN tends to run from centrist liberal to Never Trump Republican. What’s excluded are voices that seriously challenge corporate power, permanent war, or deep economic inequality from the left.

I agree that CNN is a centrist network unwilling to promote neither a liberal nor conservative agenda.

Who are some serious leftists you would like to see on CNN ?

 

[heelinhell]

I’d encourage you to fully read my posts in this thread.

It’s a mistake to dismiss podcasts or alternative media outright, as if they're all entertainment or misinformation. That’s the same kind of blanket judgment people used to make about blogs in the early 2000s, and it ignored the fact that real investigative journalism and critical analysis were emerging outside legacy outlets.

As I’ve said, a lot of younger people turn to podcasts not because they hate facts, but because they feel the traditional news media hasn’t earned their trust.

Yes, Reuters and AP have value, especially for raw reporting. But they also reflect institutional priorities: what stories get covered, how they’re framed, and what gets left out.

And cable news? That’s been dominated by partisan theater and corporate interests for decades. The idea that this is somehow more serious or more factual than longform interviews, independent reporting, or even user-driven analysis on platforms like Substack or YouTube just doesn't hold up anymore.

And on travel: I agree, seeing the world can be eye-opening. But I’d argue that genuinely engaging with the concerns of working people in your own country, across class and political divides, is just as important. Plenty of people have passports and still don’t understand why trust in elite institutions has cratered.

Dem economic policies continue striving to improve the lives of working class and middle class families, but until the Dems abandon their laudable positions on cultural issues, attracting "working people " is going to be a tough row to hoe...

 

[Centerpiece]

I’d encourage you to fully read my posts in this thread.

It’s a mistake to dismiss podcasts or alternative media outright, as if they're all entertainment or misinformation. That’s the same kind of blanket judgment people used to make about blogs in the early 2000s, and it ignored the fact that real investigative journalism and critical analysis were emerging outside legacy outlets.

As I’ve said, a lot of younger people turn to podcasts not because they hate facts, but because they feel the traditional news media hasn’t earned their trust.

Yes, Reuters and AP have value, especially for raw reporting. But they also reflect institutional priorities: what stories get covered, how they’re framed, and what gets left out.

And cable news? That’s been dominated by partisan theater and corporate interests for decades. The idea that this is somehow more serious or more factual than longform interviews, independent reporting, or even user-driven analysis on platforms like Substack or YouTube just doesn't hold up anymore.

And on travel: I agree, seeing the world can be eye-opening. But I’d argue that genuinely engaging with the concerns of working people in your own country, across class and political divides, is just as important. Plenty of people have passports and still don’t understand why trust in elite institutions has cratered.

O, I've read your missives on this thread. And I can tell we are of a mind politically. And I'll agree Dems could do a better job of reaching out and fighting fire with fire in terms of blasting a firehouse of podcasts and cranking up "left-wing" radio broadcasts to battle the Pubs in that arena.

I subscribe to and read a few Substacks. Dr. HCR and Dean Blundell to name a couple...

I never said, nor meant to imply that cable news is more serious or factual than anything. Quite the opposite actually. But the key here is the "more serious/factual". Therein lies the rub. I won't blindly sit back and think Rogan or Von are "more serious and factual" than any other Rush-type blow hard with a microphone and a platform.

Travel is the best education. Period. And once one has had a chance to view life from a different perspective in that regard (the world and humanity from a different perspective) it can help one discern the concerns of people... in this country or anywhere else. As far as having a passport, I'd wager 90% of right-wing podcast listeners don't own one. Nor do they probably want to get one or travel outside of their basement.

Institutions didn't get to be "elite" for no reason.

Get your news from reliable sources like Reuters and AP; Travel (U.S. and the world) and live abroad as much as you can reasonably do so. And then draw your own petty conclusions. Having your ear buds in all day listening to podcasts and right-wing radio broadcasts does NOTHING to cure America's ills of being #31.

 

[Centerpiece]

I’m glad we mostly agree politically, and I see the value in travel. I travel a lot because I have the resources to.

But this “pick yourself up by your bootstraps” idea of education and media literacy overlooks real barriers many face. Not everyone has the means to travel. Institutions need to earn trust, especially from those they’ve failed. Understanding why people turn to certain media is key. These problems need systemic solutions, not just individual effort.

Barriers indeed... but I still contend those who can't get out from underneath their rock don't need to blindly listen to and believe the non-serious and non-factual BS.

So what's the systemic solution? The knuckle dragging, mouth breathing humans amongst us are still going to fall victim to what the Hitlers and their disinformation machines can vomit. It's easy to see why people turn to certain media. But I refuse to believe anything on any podcast has more gravity than experiencing real life in real time. I'll take Walter Cronkite in the 1960's any day - whether or not he was part of the "elite institutions" which some say Americans have grown to "mistrust".

Edited...

 

[finesse]

I agree that critical thinking is crucial, and blindly trusting anything, be it podcasts or legacy media, is a problem. But I think dismissing people as “knuckle dragging” is ultimately unhelpful to our political project.

Real systemic solutions means investing in education, economic opportunity, and rebuilding institutions so people aren’t pushed toward disinformation in the first place. Obviously, none of this easy, especially as Republicans are actively tearing it all down further.

Walter Cronkite was trusted because the system worked better for many when he was prominent. We need to focus on fixing that, not just longing for a bygone era.

Well, except for blacks and women and poor people and gays and liberals and such.