Epstein Files | Patel: Trust us

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Paine said:
Keep your eyes on the prize. Theo Von isn’t the problem, he's the symptom. The real answer isn’t scapegoating him, it’s confronting the broader media ecosystem and building a culture that meets people where they are, both digitally and materially.

Democrats need a strategy rooted in narrative and infrastructure not reactionary finger-pointing.

Bernie going on Theo Von’s podcast proves the point. He didn’t scold or moralize. He showed up, talked like a human being, and reached millions of people, many of whom have never felt spoken to by mainstream politics. And it worked. The clip of Bernie explaining class politics to Von’s audience went viral. People respected it. That’s a roadmap, not a fluke.

This is what liberals still refuse to understand. The way to counter right-wing influence in the Rogansphere isn’t to sneer at it, it’s to compete in it.

Instead, they blame the platform and the audience. They hand-wave away real alienation and insecurity among young working-class men as if it's just a pipeline to fascism, but it’s not. It’s a vacuum, and nature abhors a vacuum. If the left doesn’t fill it with solidarity, community, and material hope, the right will fill it with resentment and fantasy.
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Theo Von is still a total dipshit.
 
Geisterfahrer said:
Theo Von is still a total dipshit.
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Look, I’ve listened to him more than probably anyone else on this board. He platforms some outright dangerous people like Candace Owens. Again, I’m just trying to diagnose how we got here. I know you’re not coming for me just wanted to say that.
 
Paine said:
It’s funny: you once messaged me to say I gave you hope for younger generations. Not sure what changed, but somewhere along the way you pivoted from hopeful to hostile.

You say you’re lifting people up, but you talk about young folks like they’re a burden or a lost cause. You dismiss their media, mock their frustrations, and then act offended when they don’t line up behind the institutions that failed them. That’s not guidance, that’s just grievance.

People didn’t stop trusting legacy media or political elites because it was trendy. They stopped because those institutions lied to them, over and over. The response wasn’t stupidity, it was just a survival instinct. You don’t have to like Von or Rogan or anyone else in that space, but writing off millions of people as dumb just because they’re not listening to NPR or reading the Times doesn’t make you right: it makes you out of touch.

If your whole project is to tell people “just be smarter,” don’t be surprised when they stop listening. That’s not mentorship, it’s moralizing. You don’t have to coddle anyone, but if you really want to help, it starts with respect, not resentment.
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I do respect everyone. Period. Always have and always will. I treat people kindly and always have a hand out to help. I don't moralize to anyone. I don't engage with such things for that exact reason.

I also have never once mocked the frustrations of young people. I have backed them up and advocated for them. I think young folks have been dealt a severely shitty hand.

I just wish folks like you would stop trying to pin the shortcomings of your own cohort on mine. We have enough of our own flaws to not be saddled with yours. The fact that your generation has fled to pure lies and sensationalism is every bit your own fault just as it is the fault of the Boomers who have largely done the same.

And your downdressing of me here epitomizes the problem....you're more comfortable with someone who SAYS things the way you want them said than with someone who DOES things to help.
 
wmheel1287 said:
I do respect everyone. Period. Always have and always will. I treat people kindly and always have a hand out to help. I don't moralize to anyone. I don't engage with such things for that exact reason.

I also have never once mocked the frustrations of young people. I have backed them up and advocated for them. I think young folks have been dealt a severely shitty hand.

I just wish folks like you would stop trying to pin the shortcomings of your own cohort on mine. We have enough of our own flaws to not be saddled with yours. The fact that your generation has fled to pure lies and sensationalism is every bit your own fault just as it is the fault of the Boomers who have largely done the same.

And your downdressing of me here epitomizes the problem....you're more comfortable with someone who SAYS things the way you want them said than with someone who DOES things to help.
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You say you respect everyone and don’t moralize, but your tone and language toward younger people, myself included, often contradict that. You repeatedly lump us in with “lazy,” “stupid,” “TikTok crybabies,” and accuse an entire generation of fleeing to lies and sensationalism. That’s not respect, just resignation disguised as realism.

And I’m not pinning my generation’s shortcomings on yours. I’m pointing out that the institutions many liberals still instinctively defend have failed people across the board. Trust wasn’t lost because of podcast bros or influencers, it was lost because the elite consensus, across parties and decades, delivered crisis after crisis, like Iraq, Wall Street, and COVID. That disillusionment spans generations. Pretending that people fled to alternative media just because they’re stupid erases that context.

As for what you do, I genuinely appreciate your work, that’s real. IIRC, you’re an educator. But doing good things doesn’t give you a pass to constantly punch down on the people you're supposedly helping. You once said I gave you hope. I still want to live up to that. But if we’re going to have a shot at rebuilding any kind of trust or solidarity, it has to be based on mutual respect, not just the kind you say you have, but the kind that shows up in how you talk about and to people.
 
Paine said:
You say you respect everyone and don’t moralize, but your tone and language toward younger people, myself included, often contradict that. You repeatedly lump us in with “lazy,” “stupid,” “TikTok crybabies,” and accuse an entire generation of fleeing to lies and sensationalism. That’s not respect, just resignation disguised as realism.

And I’m not pinning my generation’s shortcomings on yours. I’m pointing out that the institutions many liberals still instinctively defend have failed people across the board. Trust wasn’t lost because of podcast bros or influencers, it was lost because the elite consensus, across parties and decades, delivered crisis after crisis, like Iraq, Wall Street, and COVID. That disillusionment spans generations. Pretending that people fled to alternative media just because they’re stupid erases that context.

As for what you do, I genuinely appreciate your work, that’s real. IIRC, you’re an educator. But doing good things doesn’t give you a pass to constantly punch down on the people you're supposedly helping. You once said I gave you hope. I still want to live up to that. But if we’re going to have a shot at rebuilding any kind of trust or solidarity, it has to be based on mutual respect, not just the kind you say you have, but the kind that shows up in how you talk about and to people.
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This is the only place I talk about politics or social culture. I do zero engagement in such topics outside of here. My ability to invest time and money in helping people is entirely predicated on not being outspoken politically. My industry is probably 75% MAGA.
 
wmheel1287 said:
This is the only place I talk about politics or social culture. I do zero engagement in such topics outside of here. My ability to invest time and money in helping people is entirely predicated on not being outspoken politically. My industry is probably 75% MAGA.
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Fair enough. I get that you’re navigating a tightrope in your industry, and I respect that you choose to invest your time and resources into helping others. That matters, and it’s more than most do.

But I also think it’s important to recognize that even in spaces like this one, how we talk about others, especially younger people or those who’ve turned to alternative platforms out of frustration, carries weight. You’ve got every right to be critical, but sometimes it crosses into contempt. That’s what I was responding to.

I don’t think everything happening in alternative media is good or helpful, but I do think it’s a reaction to a deeper credibility crisis that didn’t start with TikTok or podcasts. We’re all trying to find something real in a media and political environment that feels increasingly performative and disconnected from people’s actual lives.

I’m not trying to assign blame to you or your generation. I’m trying to describe a landscape we’re both stuck navigating. If it came off as a “downdressing,” that wasn’t the intent, I just want the frustrations flowing both ways to actually connect and not calcify into finger-pointing.

I consume a ton of alternative media, and I don’t think that makes me dumb or lazy. I approach it critically, like I would any other source. Just because someone listens to Rogan or Von doesn’t mean they’ve shut off their brain, it often means they’re looking for voices that feel human and unfiltered in a world where so much feels packaged and insincere.

I appreciate your honest engagement with me and my arguments.
 
WaynetheDrain said:
I want you to take a second and really think about the dumb shit you just posted.

The director of the FBI has no business appearing on a podcast to discuss partisan politics and spew propaganda.

It wouldn’t be right under a Democratic administration, and it isn’t right now.
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Why not, dumb shit guy? How much of it did you listen to?
 
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