Experience with taking moms keys (78 years old) and possible community living ?

[shonuff]

Anyone have any experience with taking their parents keys and possibly having them go to community living? We recently had to take my mom‘s keys and she’s furious like I’ve never seen her furious but she was a danger to herself and others in the road and was getting lost all the time. She is slowly getting dementia and is gradually getting worse. She also has diabetes 2 and we are worried about her not taking medicine correctly. House is starting to be a mess and conversations are tough.

I’ve seen where you can purchase a place in community living and have fees. 5-8k a month is too much just for a room.

Has anyone gone through this and have any suggestions or advice ?

Debating on using care.com and having someone come in twice a week but she is saying no way. I’m sure she will change but may have to bite the bullet and put her in a senior care home.

 

[hedge]

We probably waited too long to take the keys from my dad. He could always get back home from wherever he was but he was starting to not be able get to places (doctor's office, etc) that he had routinely gone to before. We actually just hid the keys and he just quit driving, I'm not sure he even noticed. He still says stuff like "I might drive down to the beach this weekend," but he hasn't driven in a couple of years. I actually would be fine riding with him in the car, I'm sure he can still drive fine, he just wouldn't know where he was going or what he was doing or why he was in the car driving...

 

[SnoopRob]

Anyone have any experience with taking their parents keys and possibly having them go to community living? We recently had to take my mom‘s keys and she’s furious like I’ve never seen her furious but she was a danger to herself and others in the road and was getting lost all the time. She is slowly getting dementia and is gradually getting worse. She also has diabetes 2 and we are worried about her not taking medicine correctly. House is starting to be a mess and conversations are tough.

I’ve seen where you can purchase a place in community living and have fees. 5-8k a month is too much just for a room.

Has anyone gone through this and have any suggestions or advice ?

Debating on using care.com and having someone come in twice a week but she is saying no way. I’m sure she will change but may have to bite the bullet and put her in a senior care home.

We dealt with a similar situation a number of years ago with my grandfather.

Our best assistant/advocate was his GP doctor. He absolutely refused to give up the keys to his car but had hit at least 6 parked cars in the last year he drove. He'd leave a note with his insurance information. (Somehow his insurance hadn't been cancelled at that point.) We got his doctor involved and his doctor told him he could either give up his keys or the doctor would write a letter to the DMV to pull his license due to his medical issues. He was pissed but decided he'd rather have a symbolic license than his keys and so that worked...and he was at least pissed at the doctor and not us.

The doctor also was able to make his needed care fall under his insurance coverage and so that was partially covered by insurance. My grandfather never had to go into an assisted living center, but we did get daily home health coverage largely paid for. It made it so my mom and her siblings could handle the rest.

As far as a community living center, $5k really is the minimum for the kind of care you're seeking in a reasonably nice place. My aunt had to go into one for the last year or so of her life and in a semi-rural area the monthly cost was in that range (and she was at the lower end of care). Fortunately, she had supplemental insurance that covered the bulk of it. Given what you've shared, you may want to talk to your mom's doctor and see if they can be of assistance if she's going to need a place in a memory care facility.

Even if you don't have POA and your mom refuses to give permission to share info with you, your mom's doctor can always listen to you and your concerns even if they can't respond to you. They aren't obligated to take any action based on whatever you tell them, but it will likely give them needed information that they can use when dealing with your mom. For my grandfather, he wouldn't tell the doctor anything he didn't want the doctor to know but after we talked to his doctor, the doctor did a deeper talk with my grandfather where he was able to confirm what we told him and it assisted the doctor (and us) to take needed actions.

It's a hard situation. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

We had those issues and waited too long. Lots of scammers out there and we think one of them maybe even came to her house with some sort of sweepstakes scam. That was scary but hard to know if it happened because our witness has dementia.

Memory care is expensive. There is some medicare help but its tiny. You should sell the house and start cleaning out because these types of conditions don't improve. Having a house sit empty because you don't want to deal with it is common but an invite to burglars and squatters.

 

[farce©]

We had my mom’s insurance agent tell her he couldn’t insure her anymore after a couple of fender benders. She was perfectly fine with it coming from him but would never have accepted it from her kids. It never occurred to her that there are places to buy insurance other than the local agency they had used for 50 years.

She was also willing to accept advice from a lot of people who weren’t her children. My sister was a doctor, and if she offered advice about something my mother was complaining about, mom would contradict her and tell her “well the girl at the doctor’s office (the receptionist, mind you) told me I should do [whatever the opposite of what my sister suggested.]

 

[nycfan]

My mom is 79 and starting to have similar issues, so very interested in the response here. I actually offered to buy her a house in my neighborhood so we could help her (she lives about 75-90 minutes away, depending on traffic) more easily but she refused for reasons that I won't go into, some good, some childish, several insulting.

My mom is still fine driving the same places she has been driving the last 60 years, but she is to the point that (a) she won't drive at night or even at dusk, (b) won't drive in even the threat of precipitation of any kind, and (c) can't drive anywhere outside her bubble of places she always goes. She can't seem to figure out how to drive to our new house, even though it is 10 minutes from our hold house and in the same town.

Right now, though, our bigger worry is she falls asleep all the time and at weird times. She's fallen asleep with food in the oven and with food in a pressure cooker multiple times (destroyed one pressure cooker, ended up with a fire in her oven). She can't understand how to use her iPhone or iPad well anymore and calls me almost every day to ask how to get out of private browsing, as an example, and said she couldn't figure out how to drive to my house this week because she couldn't figure out how to get her maps program on her phone to connect in her car (I've shown her at least a dozen times) and couldn't follow simple written directions I sent on a trip with four total turns involved. She also thinks ever piece of junk mail she gets from the bank or statements about her retirement accounts are "threatening" and calls in a panic about letters and email she gets that we've talked about many times before.

It's really rough. She wants me to be her IT professional and personal concierge and more and more her chauffeur but she won't do anything I suggest and won't agree to a POA or even sign a living will because she doesn't "want to be put in a home". UGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH

 

[shonuff]

We just spoke with a retirement community activity supervisor. She said often times the kids bring their parents in and the parents are furious and don’t wanna live in a home. She said their anger is generally directed at their kids and they’re very pleasant to everyone in the community and within a week, they almost get better because there’s so much socializing and bridge and church and trips. They take them to the grocery store and museums and other places. This specific one is only about 2500 a month. You have to sign a one year lease and once they need memory care or advanced nurse skilled care they can move up different levels.

Thank y’all so much for taking the time to respond to this.

 

[Zoo_View]

I count myself exceptionally lucky. My parents have been logical regarding aging and started prepping for getting old and less capable years ago.

My mother made the decision in 2017 at 78 to stop driving. She returned from driving into town one day and hasn’t driven since.

In 2020 my parents gave me POA and medical POA. Mom has a no exceptions DNR.

As they age, their wishes are spelled out.

I don’t have any suggestions for people with aging parents who are still driving and/or suffering from dementia.

My suggestion is to the posters whose parents are 50 or so……start discussing late-in-life and end-of-life topics now.

 

[hedge]

The doctor also was able to make his needed care fall under his insurance coverage and so that was partially covered by insurance. My grandfather never had to go into an assisted living center, but we did get daily home health coverage largely paid for.

Could you elaborate on this?

 

[NYCBlueBlood]

I worry on this one. My parents divorced when I was 3, and have gotten about as far away from each other as they can without leaving the continental US. So far they have held up VERY well into their late 70s (knock on wood).

I do not think my dad is comfortable driving any more outside of a very limited comfort zone, but my stepmom is 10 years younger so that makes a HUGE difference. My stepdad is starting to have some memory problems and struggles driving outside of his normal routine places, but my mom at 78 is still the sharpest person in the entire extended family.

But if things were to start going bad for both sets of parents at the same time, it would be very tough on me. My dad has little savings and will have to rely on government services... hopefully he will let me help him out, but to date he has never accepted a penny of help from me. My mom will refuse to leave the family house she currently lives in. She will be the third generation to live out their last days in the house. No way she ever leaves.

Likely at some point I'll have to decide between retiring early to go keep an eye on her... or relying on in home support. But I remember how much the crows descended on my grandfather in his last years in the house... and worry about my mom getting taken advantage of if I'm not there.

 

[Carolyn225]

My mom is 79 and starting to have similar issues, so very interested in the response here. I actually offered to buy her a house in my neighborhood so we could help her (she lives about 75-90 minutes away, depending on traffic) more easily but she refused for reasons that I won't go into, some good, some childish, several insulting.

My mom is still fine driving the same places she has been driving the last 60 years, but she is to the point that (a) she won't drive at night or even at dusk, (b) won't drive in even the threat of precipitation of any kind, and (c) can't drive anywhere outside her bubble of places she always goes. She can't seem to figure out how to drive to our new house, even though it is 10 minutes from our hold house and in the same town.

Right now, though, our bigger worry is she falls asleep all the time and at weird times. She's fallen asleep with food in the oven and with food in a pressure cooker multiple times (destroyed one pressure cooker, ended up with a fire in her oven). She can't understand how to use her iPhone or iPad well anymore and calls me almost every day to ask how to get out of private browsing, as an example, and said she couldn't figure out how to drive to my house this week because she couldn't figure out how to get her maps program on her phone to connect in her car (I've shown her at least a dozen times) and couldn't follow simple written directions I sent on a trip with four total turns involved. She also thinks ever piece of junk mail she gets from the bank or statements about her retirement accounts are "threatening" and calls in a panic about letters and email she gets that we've talked about many times before.

It's really rough. She wants me to be her IT professional and personal concierge and more and more her chauffeur but she won't do anything I suggest and won't agree to a POA or even sign a living will because she doesn't "want to be put in a home". UGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH

Oh my, I am afraid you are in it and answers are not easy! My sister went to live with our elderly parents so we are fortunate. My father passed at the age of 90 in 2022 and was so very frail but sharp as a tack. He had simply stopped driving at the age of 88 thankfully. That was a couple of years after he totaled my mother's new Jaguar!

My mother will be 90 in December and has recently relocated with my sister from Florida to upstate NY. That move was completed so neither of them would be so isolated in FL and at a time when our mother could still travel. So she made her last airplane travel in June of this year.
Grateful beyond words that they are in NY after the hurricane hit Siesta Key and they had resided in Sarasota.

Those memory issues only worsen over time so my best suggestion is to work towards her no longer living alone. Safety has to be paramount so a fire in the oven while she has fallen asleep is a very good reason to not live alone. How you manage that transition is going to be challenging as you well know.

My sister was given POA in the last couple of years of my fathers' life but until the end he was the decision maker. My mother, however, cannot make decisions due to her lessening cognitive abilities. At this time she is in the here and now and cannot remember yesterday. From the sounds of it, your mother is on a similar track.

If you have to be the decision maker of where she lives and under what circumstances then know you are keeping her safe because it simply does not get better. My thoughts are with you and all who have to take on this difficult role of when to step in for their parents' well being.

 

[nycfan]

Oh my, I am afraid you are in it and answers are not easy! My sister went to live with our elderly parents so we are fortunate. My father passed at the age of 90 in 2022 and was so very frail but sharp as a tack. He had simply stopped driving at the age of 88 thankfully. That was a couple of years after he totaled my mother's new Jaguar!

My mother will be 90 in December and has recently relocated with my sister from Florida to upstate NY. That move was completed so neither of them would be so isolated in FL and at a time when our mother could still travel. So she made her last airplane travel in June of this year.
Grateful beyond words that they are in NY after the hurricane hit Siesta Key and they had resided in Sarasota.

Those memory issues only worsen over time so my best suggestion is to work towards her no longer living alone. Safety has to be paramount so a fire in the oven while she has fallen asleep is a very good reason to not live alone. How you manage that transition is going to be challenging as you well know.

My sister was given POA in the last couple of years of my fathers' life but until the end he was the decision maker. My mother, however, cannot make decisions due to her lessening cognitive abilities. At this time she is in the here and now and cannot remember yesterday. From the sounds of it, your mother is on a similar track.

If you have to be the decision maker of where she lives and under what circumstances then know you are keeping her safe because it simply does not get better. My thoughts are with you and all who have to take on this difficult role of when to step in for their parents' well being.

I cannot tell you how stressful it is but appreciate your thoughtful response. Unfortunately my mom has always been a bit paranoid but the paranoia is really taking over now. She insists the investment manager who is semi-retired but still handles annuities of some older clients like her had “men from Charlotte” on a conference call with her who laughed at her, demanded information and threatened to “destroy her and her children’s lives” if she didn’t tell them the value of her house(???) She claims a local police officer is out to get her because he gave her a speeding ticket (doing 55 in a 35 zone on a curvy road she drives daily) and that he cruises by her house to spy on her and to watch out because he would love to give her children a ticket, too. Stuff like that.

She wants a BIGGER house on a large farm in the mountains. She claims there are drug dealers with loose pit bulls all over her neighborhood and every time she misplaces a piece of jewelry claims the neighbor’s “druggie son” has a key to her house and slips in to steal things from time to time to use to buy drugs (the neighbor is a contractor who renovated her house nearly 20 years ago at a discount but she is still convinced he ripped her off because he charged a contractors fee).

She is terrified of being put in a home and says she want to go to Rhode Island because they let you just die when you are ready. But everything she is doing is going to end with forcing her into assisted living at some point. I was willing to delay my retirement and use retirement savings to buy her a very nice home near me and she refuses. So what can I do?

 

[CarolinaFever]

That sucks. If I am ever to the point where I can't take care of myself I would rather just go ahead and pass away than to hang around any longer.

 

[Delta74]

Anyone have any experience with taking their parents keys and possibly having them go to community living? We recently had to take my mom‘s keys and she’s furious like I’ve never seen her furious but she was a danger to herself and others in the road and was getting lost all the time. She is slowly getting dementia and is gradually getting worse. She also has diabetes 2 and we are worried about her not taking medicine correctly. House is starting to be a mess and conversations are tough.

I’ve seen where you can purchase a place in community living and have fees. 5-8k a month is too much just for a room.

Has anyone gone through this and have any suggestions or advice ?

Debating on using care.com and having someone come in twice a week but she is saying no way. I’m sure she will change but may have to bite the bullet and put her in a senior care home.

I can go on forever on this subject but don’t have much time right now. But I will tell you from experience that just having a POA is not enough to move your parent if they don’t want to leave their home. If they are cognizant enough to fight you on a move then you can’t move them. You would have to get a Guardianship to have the legal power to make them move and that is a huge hill to climb.

 

[billybobblockhead]

This one brings back a lot of emotion. My mom passed this past January, and she had been in a care facility for a little over 2 years prior to her passing. A few things that I've learned since 2021 on this.

1) You really need a power of attorney AND a medical power of attorney. Luckily, I had these when my mom's memory started going, but I've talked to several folks that I work with about getting this done with their parents and their parents get fighting mad when it's brought up and won't even consider it. Use every resource that you can to get this done (doctor, pastor, etc...), because as others have said, they tend to listen to others over their own kids.

2) Bank accounts - you or a sibling (or both) need to get your names put on your parent's bank accounts. That will allow you to use their accounts to continue to pay for stuff if they are mentally incapable of doing so.

3) If you can get a Lady Bird deed on their house, do it. That will prevent the house from being utilized to pay any medical bills. But, there are also restrictions on this that you'd need to talk to a lawyer about because I can't remember all of them at this time.

4) Scammers - They are out there in droves and prey on older people. At one time, my mom had a 10k check and a 5k check written out AND in an addressed envelope for "fees" because she won the publishers clearing house sweepstakes. With her slowly increasing dementia (meant in a good way here), she never could remember to buy stamps. At the same time, she received a personal check for 500k in the mail from a dude in Virginia and tried to deposit it. I was on the bank's board at one time, and they knew me well, so they called me after she came through the line, and I went and got the check. I actually called the guy who sent the check to her, who was older, and he absolutely went off on me saying "that check is as good as the gold in Fort Knox" among other things. I finally got him to shut up and told him that he was being scammed, but he really wanted nothing to do with it. I did call the local police, but they said there was nothing they could do since no money changed hands, which I totally understand.

5) Will - they need one, and with that will come the POA and medical POA.

6) Patience - I'm normally a very patient person, but I absolutely lost it with my mom on multiple occasions about not paying bills, etc... This is where your name on the bank accounts comes in handy.

7) Driving - my mom had a hard wired route that she drove almost every day. The biggest thing is she'd call me and say her car wouldn't start and I'd have to find where she was and get her fixed up. 99% of the time she hadn't put the car in park. Now, she was a good driver when she knew where she was going. I rode with her many times with no issues. Her stroke put an end to all driving. I actually installed a HUM (from Verizon) on her vehicle, which allowed me to follow her when she was out. It was a very good purchase for that time in her life.

8) Tech issues - repeating what nyc has said about this prior: I had to go to her house many times to "fix" the TV remote. It drove me crazy. Also, calls at all hours of the night ("I was just going through my phone and saw I'd missed a call from you": that call was 9 hours ago....). Be ready for it because it will happen. Luckily, we were 5 minutes away...

9) I was almost to the point of having to put my mom in a care facility, but she had a stroke right at 3 years ago that took out her right side. That actually made my decision for me with regard to getting her into a facility.

(10) This process can be very overwhelming. If you have siblings, you better put aside your differences if you're in a strained relationship because this will strain it more. Trust me when I say that you'll need to lean on each other. I had to go through this process by myself as my sister had passed away a year before my mom had her stroke, and it was very taxing. It would have been nice to have had her there.

So there is what I have to offer on this. Thinking about you as this is a tough road to hoe, and you won't get it all fixed in one day. But, do a little at a time....

 

[05C40]

Well, I need to read this thread, probably more than once. But, that I ordered my hearing aids, YESTERDAY!, doesn't make what is being posted any easier to read.

 

[SnoopRob]

Could you elaborate on this?

Sadly, I wasn't living near my parents/grandparents at the time this happened, so I don't know all of the details.

I know that the doctor somehow made the case that medical care was necessary and that part-time in-home care was the most cost effective method of "treatment". But that's really as much as I know.

 

[heelinhell]

Anyone have any experience with taking their parents keys and possibly having them go to community living? We recently had to take my mom‘s keys and she’s furious like I’ve never seen her furious but she was a danger to herself and others in the road and was getting lost all the time. She is slowly getting dementia and is gradually getting worse. She also has diabetes 2 and we are worried about her not taking medicine correctly. House is starting to be a mess and conversations are tough.

I’ve seen where you can purchase a place in community living and have fees. 5-8k a month is too much just for a room.

Has anyone gone through this and have any suggestions or advice ?

Debating on using care.com and having someone come in twice a week but she is saying no way. I’m sure she will change but may have to bite the bullet and put her in a senior care home.

I feel your pain... It was the most gut wrenching experience in my life.

My mom had dementia, and when I took her keys she threatened to sue me. Expect more anger when you suggest moving to an assisted living facility.

My mom also vehemently rejected in home care.

Eventually, I was able to get her into to assisted care with a memory care unit after she suffered a fall resulting in a brief hospitalization. I told her she would be going to a rehab center after the hospital discharge. She went to assisted living and over time ( as she declined) adapted to her environs and stopped asking when she could go back home.

Currently, an assisted living/skilled nursing facility with a memory care unit runs around $300-$400/day

I hope you have family members and/or friends to support you through this excruciating transition.

 

[heelinhell]

This one brings back a lot of emotion. My mom passed this past January, and she had been in a care facility for a little over 2 years prior to her passing. A few things that I've learned since 2021 on this.

1) You really need a power of attorney AND a medical power of attorney. Luckily, I had these when my mom's memory started going, but I've talked to several folks that I work with about getting this done with their parents and their parents get fighting mad when it's brought up and won't even consider it. Use every resource that you can to get this done (doctor, pastor, etc...), because as others have said, they tend to listen to others over their own kids.

2) Bank accounts - you or a sibling (or both) need to get your names put on your parent's bank accounts. That will allow you to use their accounts to continue to pay for stuff if they are mentally incapable of doing so.

3) If you can get a Lady Bird deed on their house, do it. That will prevent the house from being utilized to pay any medical bills. But, there are also restrictions on this that you'd need to talk to a lawyer about because I can't remember all of them at this time.

4) Scammers - They are out there in droves and prey on older people. At one time, my mom had a 10k check and a 5k check written out AND in an addressed envelope for "fees" because she won the publishers clearing house sweepstakes. With her slowly increasing dementia (meant in a good way here), she never could remember to buy stamps. At the same time, she received a personal check for 500k in the mail from a dude in Virginia and tried to deposit it. I was on the bank's board at one time, and they knew me well, so they called me after she came through the line, and I went and got the check. I actually called the guy who sent the check to her, who was older, and he absolutely went off on me saying "that check is as good as the gold in Fort Knox" among other things. I finally got him to shut up and told him that he was being scammed, but he really wanted nothing to do with it. I did call the local police, but they said there was nothing they could do since no money changed hands, which I totally understand.

5) Will - they need one, and with that will come the POA and medical POA.

6) Patience - I'm normally a very patient person, but I absolutely lost it with my mom on multiple occasions about not paying bills, etc... This is where your name on the bank accounts comes in handy.

7) Driving - my mom had a hard wired route that she drove almost every day. The biggest thing is she'd call me and say her car wouldn't start and I'd have to find where she was and get her fixed up. 99% of the time she hadn't put the car in park. Now, she was a good driver when she knew where she was going. I rode with her many times with no issues. Her stroke put an end to all driving. I actually installed a HUM (from Verizon) on her vehicle, which allowed me to follow her when she was out. It was a very good purchase for that time in her life.

8) Tech issues - repeating what nyc has said about this prior: I had to go to her house many times to "fix" the TV remote. It drove me crazy. Also, calls at all hours of the night ("I was just going through my phone and saw I'd missed a call from you": that call was 9 hours ago....). Be ready for it because it will happen. Luckily, we were 5 minutes away...

9) I was almost to the point of having to put my mom in a care facility, but she had a stroke right at 3 years ago that took out her right side. That actually made my decision for me with regard to getting her into a facility.

(10) This process can be very overwhelming. If you have siblings, you better put aside your differences if you're in a strained relationship because this will strain it more. Trust me when I say that you'll need to lean on each other. I had to go through this process by myself as my sister had passed away a year before my mom had her stroke, and it was very taxing. It would have been nice to have had her there.

So there is what I have to offer on this. Thinking about you as this is a tough road to hoe, and you won't get it all fixed in one day. But, do a little at a time....

Great advice !

 

[HeelingAg]

I had a laundry list of considerations written up, left the computer for a couple of hours and returned to see plenty other folks already articulated my points.

Something not address, yet. Dementia is exceptionally tough on patient and family particularly in the moderate stage. Dementia can also have its silver lining, relative to the inevitability of decline and death. Typically, folks don’t suffer physical pain specific to the condition. Also, once through the moderate stage, folks lose awareness they have a cognitive condition. This can offer a tremendous release from the emotional turmoil of “fighting” a losing battle. Also, folks baseline personalities tend to emerge - if they were happy and kind by nature, that presentation will likely dominate; it is tough in the opposite circumstance, though.

My grandfather spent 18 months in hospice memory care, after seven+ years of decline from progressive aphasia (think Bruce Willis). Once he became incapable of speech, comprehending writing, or aware of anything past the last 30 seconds, his goofy, trickster personality became his presentation 90% of the time. He laughed a lot and so did family. He had a strawberry shake with every lunch, ice cream with every dinner, and savored the experience each time like it was his first.