FAFO

[lawtig02]

How is he going to protect them, if not by bailing them out?

At least in this instance, Ram is actually right. People like him who voted for Trump have created a feedback loop in which most of them are protected from the consequences of their actions by the Trump administration’s willingness to engage in corrupt and anti-democratic tactics to bail them out. Pardoning the J6ers is the most obvious example, but this corrupt administration does it over and over and over again. Doing it for the SD soybean farmers is just playing to the script.

The only surprise is that someone like Ram would celebrate it. People who benefit from a mob boss’s protection racket may be grateful, but they’re rarely willing to openly brag about it.

ETA — the most relevant example in this instance is actually the abdication of the criminal charges against Ram’s boss in Georgia, notwithstanding that they had him dead to rights for conspiring to fraudulently overturn the 2020 election.

 

[heelinhell]

Since we have already brought in many trillions of dollars in beautiful tariffs, why limit the bailout money to farmers ?
With trillions we could bail out everyone who has been adversely impacted by tariffs.

 

[UNCatTech]

No, but the theme of the thread is FAFO and my point is that these farmers won’t suffer and “find out.”

So, your on record as being against the bail outs? It's socialism,right?

 

[JCTarheel82]

In this particular case, farmers fucked around but American taxpayers are the ones who find out due to Trump's terrible economic policies.

 

[Ramrouser]

ETA — the most relevant example in this instance is actually the abdication of the criminal charges against Ram’s boss in Georgia, notwithstanding that they had him dead to rights for conspiring to fraudulently overturn the 2020 election.

Nonsense. Neither Gov Kemp nor Pres Trump waived their authoritarian magic wands to dismiss the criminal charges. The regular legal process took its course. Defendant's filed motions before the trial judge who ruled upon them. The ruling was appealed to the court of appeals which issued its order. The matter is currently pending in the supreme court of Georgia.

Similarly, with respect to the statute allowing defendants to recoup their attorneys fees when a prosecutor is removed from the case, this bill was passed by both state houses and signed by the Governor.

So, your on record as being against the bail outs? It's socialism,right?

I've previously said I'm not a big fan of these ad hoc tariffs. They are not the unmitigated disaster as predicted here but they are preventing (along with interest rates) the economy from taking off.

 

[lawtig02]

Nonsense. Neither Gov Kemp nor Pres Trump waived their authoritarian magic wands to dismiss the criminal charges. The regular legal process took its course. Defendant's filed motions before the trial judge who ruled upon them. The ruling was appealed to the court of appeals which issued its order. The matter is currently pending in the supreme court of Georgia.

Similarly, with respect to the statute allowing defendants to recoup their attorneys fees when a prosecutor is removed from the case, this bill was passed by both state houses and signed by the Governor.

LOL. That's the point. The reason Ray and the other defendants (the remaining ones, as several of their co-defendants have already pled guilty) have been fighting so hard to remove Willis is that EVERYONE else who could have a say in this case is MAGA, which means the case won't go anywhere. All three of the judges on the Georgia Court of Appeals panel that disqualified Willis are MAGA. Every member of the Georgia Supreme Court, which is currently considering the case, is either expressly MAGA or extremely conservative.

If the Supreme Court affirms the Court of Appeals, which it is sure to do, Willis's replacement would be chosen by Peter Skandalakis, a MAGA. Reporting is that he will likely choose Chris Carr, an ultra-MAGA, to handle the case himself. If not Carr, Skandalakis will certainly choose a MAGA.

Which brings us back to the protection racket. I'm guessing when Ray chose to do what he did, he knew he would be protected at multiple levels by the Republicans that absolutely dominate the state government, and especially the judiciary, in his purple state. (Sounds very familiar to those of us in NC.) Lucky for him, he was right. Justice be damned. And that's the point.

It's notable that in all of the discussions about Ray on this board, I have never once heard you defend him on the merits. It's always been a critique of Willis. Fiat justitia ruat caelum? Not for Georgia lawyers, apparently.

 

[Ramrouser]

LOL. That's the point. The reason Ray and the other defendants (the remaining ones, as several of their co-defendants have already pled guilty) have been fighting so hard to remove Willis is that EVERYONE else who could have a say in this case is MAGA, which means the case won't go anywhere. All three of the judges on the Georgia Court of Appeals panel that disqualified Willis are MAGA. Every member of the Georgia Supreme Court, which is currently considering the case, is either expressly MAGA or extremely conservative.

If the Supreme Court affirms the Court of Appeals, which it is sure to do, Willis's replacement would be chosen by Peter Skandalakis, a MAGA. Reporting is that he will likely choose Chris Carr, an ultra-MAGA, to handle the case himself. If not Carr, Skandalakis will certainly choose a MAGA.

Which brings us back to the protection racket. I'm guessing when Ray chose to do what he did, he knew he would be protected at multiple levels by the Republicans that absolutely dominate the state government, and especially the judiciary, in his purple state. (Sounds very familiar to those of us in NC.) Lucky for him, he was right. Justice be damned. And that's the point.

I would note that the trial judge, Scott McAfee is NOT MAGA (main line conservative) and obviously the prosecution. Trump had MAGA hating trial judges in his NYC and DC federal cases.

The bigger point is that is the way the state judicial system works. Judges are elected by the people or appointed initially by the Governor. No question the defendants in this case were playing in a more MAGA friendly jurisdiction but that's the way the system works. I was roundly criticized, and lectured about not respecting the judicial process, for pointing out that the NY judicial system was completely stacked against Trump (at least at the trial court level) in his criminal and civil cases there. Thankfully, the NY appellate court undid the damage done by the trial judge in Trump's "civil fraud" case. Hopefully, he'll achieve a similar result with his criminal appeal.

 

[rodoheel]

You mean like with a bailout? Giving taxpayer dollars to farmers because trump screwed up their market?

That sounds like a really stupid version of socialism.

I don't think you understand. Farmers are REAL AMERICANS who DESERVE a government bailout any time they run intro trouble. But when poor people get cancer and can't pay their bills, giving them any help is SOCIALISM.

 

[lawtig02]

I would note that the trial judge, Scott McAfee is NOT MAGA (main line conservative) and obviously the prosecution. Trump had MAGA hating trial judges in his NYC and DC federal cases.

The bigger point is that is the way the state judicial system works. Judges are elected by the people or appointed initially by the Governor. No question the defendants in this case were playing in a more MAGA friendly jurisdiction but that's the way the system works. I was roundly criticized, and lectured about not respecting the judicial process, for pointing out that the NY judicial system was completely stacked against Trump (at least at the trial court level) in his criminal and civil cases there. Thankfully, the NY appellate court undid the damage done by the trial judge in Trump's "civil fraud" case. Hopefully, he'll achieve a similar result with his criminal appeal.

Let me make sure I have this straight.

1. Ray and his co-defendants were persecuted by a rogue liberal DA in Georgia (a purple/red state), but fortunately for him, he's being protected by the MAGAs who now fill pretty much all the appellate judgeships in Georgia.

2. Trump was persecuted by a rogue liberal DA in New York (a blue state), but (according to you), he's being protected by the appellate system in New York. (I note that the NY appellate court upheld the jury's finding that Trump committed civil fraud. It only vacated the $500 million judgment as excessive.)

You're happy about both of these results, despite the fact that even now, you have not offered one word in defense of Ray on the merits. I don't know if you've ever tried to defend Trump on the merits, but I'm certain you have not done that for Ray.

You are celebrating a broken, ineffective system of justice that happens to work in your favor in your home state. That impulse is at the absolute core of authoritarianism.

 

[Wheels81]

I don't think you understand. Farmers are REAL AMERICANS who DESERVE a government bailout any time they run intro trouble. But when poor people get cancer and can't pay their bills, giving them any help is SOCIALISM.

And according to some MAGAs, if poor people can’t pay their bills and become homeless, they should be executed.

 

[altmin]

Mississippi declares infant deaths emergency as CDC program that could have helped is halted

State forced to stop gathering critical data on pregnancy experiences after Trump administration’s shakeup

www.theguardian.com

 

[Ramrouser]

Let me make sure I have this straight.

1. Ray and his co-defendants were persecuted by a rogue liberal DA in Georgia (a purple/red state), but fortunately for him, he's being protected by the MAGAs who now fill pretty much all the appellate judgeships in Georgia.

2. Trump was persecuted by a rogue liberal DA in New York (a blue state), but (according to you), he's being protected by the appellate system in New York. (I note that the NY appellate court upheld the jury's finding that Trump committed civil fraud. It only vacated the $500 million judgment as excessive.)

You're happy about both of these results, despite the fact that even now, you have not offered one word in defense of Ray on the merits. I don't know if you've ever tried to defend Trump on the merits, but I'm certain you have not done that for Ray.

You are celebrating a broken, ineffective system of justice that happens to work in your favor in your home state. That impulse is at the absolute core of authoritarianism.

I don't care to comment on the details of the Georgia case other than to say that my friend was prosecuted for simply providing legal representation to President Trump in an traditional election challenge case. I realize you all see it differently but we're not going to convince the other of our position so what's the point of rehashing a case that's soon to be moot.

I would point out that almost all of you here "celebrated" the NYC judicial system (and DC district court) when it was completely against Trump (broken, ineffective system of justice?). So I guess you had an authoritarian impulse as well - according to your definition.

 

[Ramrouser]

Let me make sure I have this straight.

1. Ray and his co-defendants were persecuted by a rogue liberal DA in Georgia (a purple/red state), but fortunately for him, he's being protected by the MAGAs who now fill pretty much all the appellate judgeships in Georgia.

2. Trump was persecuted by a rogue liberal DA in New York (a blue state), but (according to you), he's being protected by the appellate system in New York. (I note that the NY appellate court upheld the jury's finding that Trump committed civil fraud. It only vacated the $500 million judgment as excessive.)

You're happy about both of these results, despite the fact that even now, you have not offered one word in defense of Ray on the merits. I don't know if you've ever tried to defend Trump on the merits, but I'm certain you have not done that for Ray.

You are celebrating a broken, ineffective system of justice that happens to work in your favor in your home state. That impulse is at the absolute core of authoritarianism.

Looks like our discussion on this issue is timely. This morning the Georgia Supreme Court denied the DA's petition for cert.

 

[Zoo_View]

Mississippi declares infant deaths emergency as CDC program that could have helped is halted

State forced to stop gathering critical data on pregnancy experiences after Trump administration’s shakeup

www.theguardian.com

Making America Healthy Again

 

[UNCatTech]

Since we have already brought in many trillions of dollars in beautiful tariffs, why limit the bailout money to farmers ?
With trillions we could bail out everyone who has been adversely impacted by tariffs.

Agree, but first let's pay off the national debt. We can see it's already going down.... isn't it?

Where is all of this big beautiful tarrif money being used?

 

[rodoheel]

I don't care to comment on the details of the Georgia case other than to say that my friend was prosecuted for simply providing legal representation to President Trump in an traditional election challenge case.

Oh really? Did he just "provide legal representation" to Trump? Or did he repeat and amplify Trump's baseless claims of election fraud, without having any evidence that those claims were remotely legitimate? Do you think that falsely claiming that thousands of fraudulent votes were cast, with zero evidence, is a "traditional election challenge"?

You understand that lawyers can't just repeat claims their clients tell them uncritically and with zero independent investigation, right?

 

[lawtig02]

Looks like our discussion on this issue is timely. This morning the Georgia Supreme Court denied the DA's petition for cert.

 

[lawtig02]

Oh really? Did he just "provide legal representation" to Trump? Or did he repeat and amplify Trump's baseless claims of election fraud, without having any evidence that those claims were remotely legitimate? Do you think that falsely claiming that thousands of fraudulent votes were cast, with zero evidence, is a "traditional election challenge"?

You understand that lawyers can't just repeat claims their clients tell them uncritically and with zero independent investigation, right?

What you need to know about Ray Smith III’s 2020 election charges

Prosecutors alleged Smith worked to overturn the election, including by claiming to members of Georgia’s state Senate and House of Representatives that there had been widespread voter fraud.

www.pbs.org

Prosecutors alleged Smith worked to overturn the election in multiple steps, including claiming to members of Georgia’s state Senate and House of Representatives that there had been widespread voter fraud, which the indictment suggests he knew to be untrue. He also helped appeal to state lawmakers to appoint a slate of alternate electors who would vote for Trump instead of Biden in the Electoral College and encouraged the false Trump elector nominees to sign a document titled “Certificate of the Votes of the 2020 Electors from Georgia.”

Smith, along with many of the other named co-conspirators, allegedly presented false information before various committees in Georgia’s legislature between Dec. 3 and Dec. 30, 2020, incorrectly stating that thousands of felons, minors and other ineligible Americans had illegally registered to vote or cast ballots in the presidential election.

__________________________

That ain't "providing legal representation."

 

[lawtig02]

I don't care to comment on the details of the Georgia case other than to say that my friend was prosecuted for simply providing legal representation to President Trump in an traditional election challenge case. I realize you all see it differently but we're not going to convince the other of our position so what's the point of rehashing a case that's soon to be moot.

 

[uncjhodges]

What you need to know about Ray Smith III’s 2020 election charges

Prosecutors alleged Smith worked to overturn the election, including by claiming to members of Georgia’s state Senate and House of Representatives that there had been widespread voter fraud.

www.pbs.org

Prosecutors alleged Smith worked to overturn the election in multiple steps, including claiming to members of Georgia’s state Senate and House of Representatives that there had been widespread voter fraud, which the indictment suggests he knew to be untrue. He also helped appeal to state lawmakers to appoint a slate of alternate electors who would vote for Trump instead of Biden in the Electoral College and encouraged the false Trump elector nominees to sign a document titled “Certificate of the Votes of the 2020 Electors from Georgia.”

Smith, along with many of the other named co-conspirators, allegedly presented false information before various committees in Georgia’s legislature between Dec. 3 and Dec. 30, 2020, incorrectly stating that thousands of felons, minors and other ineligible Americans had illegally registered to vote or cast ballots in the presidential election.

__________________________

That ain't "providing legal representation."

looks like your typical election fraud legal representation right