Finding a Way Back (America)

rodoheel said:
I am becoming more and more convinced that it's not going to happen (at least the massive sea change we need isn't going to happen) without some sort of national crisis. World War, another Great Depression, natural disaster on a massive scale, etc. Something that unites us in the understanding of an existential threat.
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I agree 100%

Like it or not, we are headed for a conflict of some sort. One that will change the course of history.
 
4thgenheel said:
i can see them declaring martial law based on some lie/fantasy and things spiraling from there, actual violence breaking out.
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That. A protest somewhere goes sideways. They attempt to deport someone who doesn't go quietly... It could be any number of things. But there WILL be bloodshed before these people relent.
 
aGDevil2k said:
That's the point of the thread - how can the damage be undone?
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Yes, I answered earlier that I don't believe all of this can be undone.

The rest of the world isn't just going to forgive and go back to business as usual.

First we have to figure out how to win elections. If we win we have to change the narrative that government is useless. We have to rebuild our institutions to be more efficient and transparent, then regularly demonstrate to the people how the government is serving them and how that makes their life better. While in parallel rebuilding global relationships. None of this is easy or fast. But it all starts with winning elections and branding and messaging that convince people the party is for them.
 
Burgawnc said:
The image of Trump is carefully curated.

The 38% think trump is handsome, beautiful, masculine and powerful. We should run ads attacking trump's image incessantly. We should run ads showing trump looking old, feeble, frail, stumbling, slurring, or sounding incoherent.

I see ads on their media asking their base to call their Representatives to protest against the "Biden Pill Plan," which does not exist - but sounds bad. We should do the same. Demand the r base to contact congress to fight against the "Republican Medicare Reduction Act" and protect "their Medicare."

Run ads showing frustrated seniors spending HOURS on the phone trying to get through to a Medicare Office.

Run ads show family farms with FOR SALE signs posted in the field, because of tariffs.

There a million ways to attack these dumb-asses. They deserve them all.
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Agreed, but those ads have to run on fox news during prime time.

Figure out how to get Joe Rogan to laugh at his hair.
 
dukeman92 said:
Generations. It will be a long time before anyone in the world trusts America, and rightfully so. Even if Felon 47 goes away in four years... who's to say we won't "elect" a hand-picked successor? America MUST do away with the electoral college.
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1. Getting rid of the EC would not have resulted in a Kamala victory. Over the long-term, of course, the EC distorts our presidential politics to a great degree. Issues that would be salient in an actual competitive environment just get ignored now. Why has climate change completely fallen off the radar (except for Trump taxing an axe to clean energy programs)? Could it be that the areas most affected by it have little voice in Congress and no voice in presidential elections? Florida, Alabama, Mississippi -- these are the states that stand to suffer the most (or at least suffer a lot). Meanwhile, the swing states in the rust belt are not the ones as affected by climate change -- or to put it differently, they don't understand themselves to be affected by climate change.

But I don't think getting rid of the EC is going to solve the problem you're discussing. There would have to be much more. We need a new constitution. Almost none of our current constitution is actually working. Well, "almost none" is an exaggeration but in so many areas the constitution is just not suited for the world in which we actually live. It is broken in many ways. Getting rid of the EC is but a small part of that.

2. On the other hand, I think you might be overestimating the trust issues. I thought for sure, after 2008, that there would be no appetite for just trusting the investment banks that had tanked the world economy. A decade later, and the financial crisis was mostly forgotten in politics, and Dodd Frank keeps getting weakened by the GOP (courts and presidents).

People are pretty good at forgetting or downplaying the past when doing so creates new opportunities. I've seen articles talking about how this is an evolutionary adaption on the part of humanity -- that if you think back to 10K years ago, 20K years ago, whatever is the proper evolutionary time frame, you can see why long memories aren't helpful. Sure, the chief's son didn't fight with bravery the last invasion; but we're facing a new invasion so everyone needs to get along. If you failed to kill the elephant in the previous hunt, forget about it -- do better next time, etc.

But in a world where fraud exists (remember: fraud did not exist until there was property, and even then property needed to be freely transferable, and even then there had to be rules about it, etc.), and thus fraudsters exist, I'm not sure that adaptation is helpful.

3. Anyway, if we act like friends, they will take us back as friends. They might not have the same degree of trust, but that's arguably good. Not in a Trump "they are ripping us off" type of way. More like the world will do better, I think, with Europe as a power that rivals the US and China, and thus creates a multi-polar world.

I also think, at the same time, we could ease that re-friending process along by making fundamental changes to our constitutional system. Not just to protect our alliances, of course. To save the Republic, and to let us prosper in a world where the right-wing seems intent on taking us back to the 1950s, 1850s, or 1790s.
 
superrific said:
1. Getting rid of the EC would not have resulted in a Kamala victory. Over the long-term, of course, the EC distorts our presidential politics to a great degree. Issues that would be salient in an actual competitive environment just get ignored now. Why has climate change completely fallen off the radar (except for Trump taxing an axe to clean energy programs)? Could it be that the areas most affected by it have little voice in Congress and no voice in presidential elections? Florida, Alabama, Mississippi -- these are the states that stand to suffer the most (or at least suffer a lot). Meanwhile, the swing states in the rust belt are not the ones as affected by climate change -- or to put it differently, they don't understand themselves to be affected by climate change.

But I don't think getting rid of the EC is going to solve the problem you're discussing. There would have to be much more. We need a new constitution. Almost none of our current constitution is actually working. Well, "almost none" is an exaggeration but in so many areas the constitution is just not suited for the world in which we actually live. It is broken in many ways. Getting rid of the EC is but a small part of that.

2. On the other hand, I think you might be overestimating the trust issues. I thought for sure, after 2008, that there would be no appetite for just trusting the investment banks that had tanked the world economy. A decade later, and the financial crisis was mostly forgotten in politics, and Dodd Frank keeps getting weakened by the GOP (courts and presidents).

People are pretty good at forgetting or downplaying the past when doing so creates new opportunities. I've seen articles talking about how this is an evolutionary adaption on the part of humanity -- that if you think back to 10K years ago, 20K years ago, whatever is the proper evolutionary time frame, you can see why long memories aren't helpful. Sure, the chief's son didn't fight with bravery the last invasion; but we're facing a new invasion so everyone needs to get along. If you failed to kill the elephant in the previous hunt, forget about it -- do better next time, etc.

But in a world where fraud exists (remember: fraud did not exist until there was property, and even then property needed to be freely transferable, and even then there had to be rules about it, etc.), and thus fraudsters exist, I'm not sure that adaptation is helpful.

3. Anyway, if we act like friends, they will take us back as friends. They might not have the same degree of trust, but that's arguably good. Not in a Trump "they are ripping us off" type of way. More like the world will do better, I think, with Europe as a power that rivals the US and China, and thus creates a multi-polar world.

I also think, at the same time, we could ease that re-friending process along by making fundamental changes to our constitutional system. Not just to protect our alliances, of course. To save the Republic, and to let us prosper in a world where the right-wing seems intent on taking us back to the 1950s, 1850s, or 1790s.
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Yes but the EC won for trump in 2015, so he might not have been around in 2024.
 
altmin said:
And the American people aren't known for patience, hence why we have Trump again after Biden not being able to magically fix everything in 4 years while starting with a pandemic driven inflation crisis handicapping him.
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Biden did a damn good job with what he had to work with. He didn't make chicken salad out of chicken shit... he made a pretty good cowboy ribeye.
 
Duke Mu said:
3 months ago UK and Europe said that the US economy is the envy of the world. Due to the idiot tariff wars and attacks on international aid, science infrastructure, universities - our ability to innovate is tanking; this JV Vance moment sums the FAIL of Trump 2.0 perfectly.

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I am loathe to be crude, but this administration/clown show would fuck up a wet dream
 
aGDevil2k said:
OK things are bad. We all (well most of us) get that. And it's getting worse:
- Attacks on Higher Ed
- Cuts to critical government programs
- Economic issues
- Reputation across the world
- Land of the free (generally)

But say we get to have elections again that are fairly counted. How can America recover from this? Is it possible? How long will it take, if ever? And HOW?
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First thing is to "accidentally" send Trump to a prison in Venezuela where "facilitating" his return fails.

I kid but I wouldn't be surprised if we go into cycles of retribution once Democrats figure out that they can't play the asymmetrically, which means we lose our country either way.
 
dukeman92 said:
“We cannot leave the security of Europe in the hands of voters in Wisconsin every 4 years" says France's Europe Minister, Jean-Noël Barrot
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I have to say, you'd think that would've occurred to them before now. Not that any administration before Trump ever gave them cause to, but just on general principle...
 
A. Europe outspends the US on NATO funding.

B. Europe and UK came to our aid after 9/11 per the NATO treaty.

C. This was our idea, because...if you guys are history buffs...

 
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